56 replies to this topic

[the wr3ck]

With the 240 ton limit do you think we will see a new meta emerge? We will probably have lighter faster mechs which could lead to a different meta. I wonder how well 12 players all bringing firestarter 's A would do. Imagine the chaos.

[Mcgral18]

Not likely.

[Brody319]

No, just a CW meta that is separate from the pug metas.

[Deathlike]

Short answer: No
Long answer: If anything, there will be more meta present with the top team dropdecks.

[Davers]

People keep using the word meta like it is a foreign concept. Instead of meta, say 'the best'. Will people stop using the best because of CW? No.

[zortesh]

I personally imagine massed charges of srm mediums.

3x55 tonners and a 75tonner.

And then massed brawly charges.

[FupDup]

I look forward to CW exposing the full infamy that the metagame has to offer, for those that still try to doubt its existence.

[Davers]

FupDup, on 07 December 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

I look forward to CW exposing the full infamy that the metagame has to offer, for those that still try to doubt its existence.

Worst case scenario- 12 mans drive everyone out of CW.

[FupDup]

Davers, on 07 December 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Worst case scenario- 12 mans drive everyone out of CW.

#rekt #ggclose?

[xMEPHISTOx]

pffft meta...whats good is good and people use whats proven to provide victories, but whats more important meta or skill. anyone can take a 'meta' build but does that mean they can win>?

[FupDup]

xMEPHISTOx, on 07 December 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

pffft meta...whats good is good and people use whats proven to provide victories, but whats more important meta or skill. anyone can take a 'meta' build but does that mean they can win>?

It doesn't make them instantly win by itself, but it does improve their probability of winning. This is especially true if the red team is using good robots of their own.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 07 December 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

It doesn't make them instantly win by itself, but it does improve their probability of winning. This is especially true if the red team is using good robots of their own.

Yay Arms race.

Sorry Mist Lynx.

[Triordinant]

Davers, on 07 December 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Worst case scenario- 12 mans drive everyone out of CW.

This is what I said a month ago:

Based on PGI's statements on it, I've always assumed that CW was a third "hardcore" queue because there's no Elo matchmaking at all there. The biggest, most organized, most competitive and best-trained groups (aka the guys almost no one else wants to play with) will be playing there with no Elo filtering so it's definitely not the most recommended place for a solo player. In fact, I predict the top teams will try to field only 12-mans if they can because when two top-tier comp teams clash the winner is more likely to be the team with the fewer soloists or no soloists at all.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why soloists get to fight alongside Units there (to fill in for 11-mans?) but I figure most soloists who "try it out" will eventually leave as a result of either being instakilled repeatedly by the enemy team or derided by their own team. If the plan is to have a third queue played by a few hundred highly competitive players mostly from big organized Units, then that will happen naturally in CW as it's been defined so far.

However, if the plan is to have the majority of MWO players actually participate in CW, the design as revealed so far isn't going to work -there will have to be a CW solo queue. I've already suggested over the past couple of months that Invasion Conflicts could be fought by groups and Border Conflicts could be fought by soloists (those conflicts are defined by Paul Inouye here). PGI could even create a third kind of conflict and have soloists fight those, but it would have to be just as meaningful or no soloist will bother since it won't be much different from the current solo queue.

[Davers]

Triordinant, on 07 December 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

This is what I said a month ago:

Based on PGI's statements on it, I've always assumed that CW was a third "hardcore" queue because there's no Elo matchmaking at all there. The biggest, most organized, most competitive and best-trained groups (aka the guys almost no one else wants to play with) will be playing there with no Elo filtering so it's definitely not the most recommended place for a solo player. In fact, I predict the top teams will try to field only 12-mans if they can because when two top-tier comp teams clash the winner is more likely to be the team with the fewer soloists or no soloists at all.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why soloists get to fight alongside Units there (to fill in for 11-mans?) but I figure most soloists who "try it out" will eventually leave as a result of either being instakilled repeatedly by the enemy team or derided by their own team. If the plan is to have a third queue played by a few hundred highly competitive players mostly from big organized Units, then that will happen naturally in CW as it's been defined so far.

However, if the plan is to have the majority of MWO players actually participate in CW, the design as revealed so far isn't going to work -there will have to be a CW solo queue. I've already suggested over the past couple of months that Invasion Conflicts could be fought by groups and Border Conflicts could be fought by soloists (those conflicts are defined by Paul Inouye here). PGI could even create a third kind of conflict and have soloists fight those, but it would have to be just as meaningful or no soloist will bother since it won't be much different from the current solo queue.

Good points there.

Most small teams/solo players are totally unaware the kind of beatdown they can get from organized 12 mans. On maps like Caustic they can be on you, ripping down mechs, before you even leave the spawn if you don't have a plan already set before you drop. LOL It's almost enough to make you pray for LRM rain!

Most people just aren't as competitive as they like to think. Given the choice of improving their gameplay or moving to greener pastures….well, I think the solo queue will doesn't have to worry about being empty.

[DaZur]

Davers, on 07 December 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Good points there.

Most small teams/solo players are totally unaware the kind of beatdown they can get from organized 12 mans. On maps like Caustic they can be on you, ripping down mechs, before you even leave the spawn if you don't have a plan already set before you drop. LOL It's almost enough to make you pray for LRM rain!

Most people just aren't as competitive as they like to think. Given the choice of improving their gameplay or moving to greener pastures….well, I think the solo queue will doesn't have to worry about being empty.

True...

Personally I think CW will be dead in the water with a very narrow field of participants if organized can't figure out how to "play nice" with the soloists... Inbreeding will only help the Clans.

CW will rely on having a healthy soloist population to play the role of conscripts and the quality of their game experiencing will depend heavily on teams not looking down at them with contempt...

Edited by DaZur, 07 December 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Eboli]

Another issue will 12 mans crunching small groups/solos in CW and their attitude in doing it.

For how long will smaller groups put up with the $hitty comments from the 12 mans about their game play and rekt, ggclose put down remarks?

If such teams continue to throw out their put down remarks I think it would be this type of attitude which will drive out the smaller group/soloist from CW. People play for fun, not putdowns.

PGI would have to respond somehow to dropping CW numbers and maybe a CW solo queue would be the answer.

Cheers!
Eboli

Edited by Eboli, 07 December 2014 - 08:39 PM.

[InRev]

Davers, on 07 December 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Worst case scenario- 12 mans drive everyone out of CW.

I'm genuinely curious as to what PGI is going to do if/when CW is abandoned by 99% of the playerbase due to it being a chore.

Seems like a big ole waste of time and resources if what many think is going to happen does happen.

My only guess is that the map of the Inner Sphere will have ghetto regions like in EVE Online. Some places might be rich and tempting, like Fountain or Delve in that game, while others will be shitholes that are not even worth the effort from the tryhards, like Providence and Catch.

That's how I would try to approach it, at least.

[Eboli]

CW really needs to be successful for MWO's long term existence - this for all players whether large groups, smaller units and soloists.

I believe a lot of the long term players have been holding out for CW and it's new gameplay mode and that they have high hopes for it. If CW does not meet some of what they are hoping for it could just mean that their hope is dashed and the continual gameplay of Conquest, Assault and Skirmish no longer appeals to them.

People tolerate the grind because they know there is a future reward/benefit in it.

I am trying to be constructive here in my comments and I hope that CW pans out to be a great element within the MWO gameplay.

wE shall all find out how it goes over the next month.

Cheers!
Eboli

[Adiuvo]

12 As would be absolutely terrible.

[Davers]

DaZur, on 07 December 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

True...

Personally I think CW will be dead in the water with a very narrow field of participants if organized can't figure out how to "play nice" with the soloists... Inbreeding will only help the Clans.

CW will rely on having a healthy soloist population to play the role of conscripts and the quality of their game experiencing will depend heavily on teams not looking down at them with contempt...

But people who are competitive usually smack talk. Especially when playing against faceless strangers. Of course, people could just leave Chat off. But they won't.

InRev, on 07 December 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

I'm genuinely curious as to what PGI is going to do if/when CW is abandoned by 99% of the playerbase due to it being a chore.

Seems like a big ole waste of time and resources if what many think is going to happen does happen.

My only guess is that the map of the Inner Sphere will have ghetto regions like in EVE Online. Some places might be rich and tempting, like Fountain or Delve in that game, while others will be shitholes that are not even worth the effort from the tryhards, like Providence and Catch.

That's how I would try to approach it, at least.

That would be a way to do it. But solo players don't get to hold territory, so what is their incentive?