181 replies to this topic

[Reno Blade]

Punk Oblivion, on 06 January 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

Yeah, the AC2's need to have ghost heat removed from them all together. I would rather get dakka'd by 6 X AC2's than 4 X UAC5's any day...

6 X AC2's can be annoying, but unless you just stand their taking fire, they don't do a whole lot of damage. Same as taking some LRM hits.

But 6 AC2s will do over 16dps while 4 UACs (without double trigger) will do only 12 dps and can jam.
You would use the UAC5s usually together while the AC2s in such numbers are more annoying/dangerous with macro timed chain fire (if not for ghost heat).

The point of 6 un-ghosted AC2s is that you will eat around 8 hits per second (it were 12 hits per second before) and will constantly get screen shake and damage. Even if you ignore the damage, it can ramp up very fast if you can't stop it.
If there is no ghost heat, you would see 5-6 AC2 Jaegers rocking around more than 4AC5 or 3UAC5 Jaegers and surpressing and hurting targets a lot more.

But lets not rerail the thread too much.
On the King Crab using 6 ACs (2x2, 2x5, 2xUAC5) sounds like lots of fun, but it's damn hot as you can generate 6 heat per volley or around 17 to 23.6 damage per second for 5.2 to 6.4 heat per second (max around 3,7 dmg/heat).
You would need a lot of DHS to cool that down.

Compared to 4UAC5s that would do 12 to 24 dps for 2.4 to 4.8 hps (max around 5 dmg/heat).
So theoretically the UAC5s are cooler but have a higher burst.

[AllOuttaBubbleGum]

Punk Oblivion, on 02 January 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

4 UAC5 crab needs no backup weapons, just ammo and more ammo. Also some disciplined fire control.


Edit, oops. You said AC5, not UAC5 haha. For heat reasons. I would do 2AC5/2AC2 with missiles. Otherwise 3-4 AC5 with lasers. I never like running AC2's with lasers. Not until they reduce the heat on the AC2 anyways.

I prefer backup. I like having my three med pulse lasers.

[Punk Oblivion]

Reno Blade, on 07 January 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

But 6 AC2s will do over 16dps while 4 UACs (without double trigger) will do only 12 dps and can jam.
You would use the UAC5s usually together while the AC2s in such numbers are more annoying/dangerous with macro timed chain fire (if not for ghost heat).

The point of 6 un-ghosted AC2s is that you will eat around 8 hits per second (it were 12 hits per second before) and will constantly get screen shake and damage. Even if you ignore the damage, it can ramp up very fast if you can't stop it.
If there is no ghost heat, you would see 5-6 AC2 Jaegers rocking around more than 4AC5 or 3UAC5 Jaegers and surpressing and hurting targets a lot more.

But lets not rerail the thread too much.
On the King Crab using 6 ACs (2x2, 2x5, 2xUAC5) sounds like lots of fun, but it's damn hot as you can generate 6 heat per volley or around 17 to 23.6 damage per second for 5.2 to 6.4 heat per second (max around 3,7 dmg/heat).
You would need a lot of DHS to cool that down.

Compared to 4UAC5s that would do 12 to 24 dps for 2.4 to 4.8 hps (max around 5 dmg/heat).
So theoretically the UAC5s are cooler but have a higher burst.

6XAC2 is a higher DPS up against a non-doubletapped 4XUAC5. But for the most part, the only time I am NOT double tapping UAC5's is when 2 of the 4 are jammed. Also if your talking about running macros on AC2's, you have to compare that to UAC5's on macros as well. Which is easy to set up (and fun to use) chain-fire on double time for them.

Of course maybe 6XAC2's would be better, unfortunately there is no way for me to compare them anymore with ghost heat on the AC2's. But with 4XUAC5, I average around 800+ damage and 2-5 kills a match. I would love to get two weeks of ghost heat gone on AC2's just to see how they stack up.

And to get back on track, the absolute best dakka build I have found on the 000 (and I have tried out a ridiculous amount of builds on the 000) is 3XAC5 with 2XAC2. Right now I am rocking an AC5 cooldown mod on it. It runs quick with an XL350, runs cool on all but the hottest maps, and fits like 14 or 15 tons of ammo. The only downside is you will die to a ST loss occasionally.

Richard Kuklinski, on 07 January 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

I prefer backup. I like having my three med pulse lasers.

Well with my Ilya I run 3-UAC5 with 3 ML. But with 4 UAC5's, losing one and backing off to regular fire keeps up a good DPS with 3 functioning cannons. Plus the 100 ton KGC can actually fit enough ammo to properly feed 4XUAC5's, even with a standard 300.

[Rahoth]

<a href="http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=240&l=f76efba59b025596edf3293ec0ff2897ca9ca87a">Doomtrain</a>


My "Doomtrain" build

[Rahoth]

My "BOOM Train" lol


<a href="http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=240&l=86c56e1d6e3baa75a6dc2bf8ef77b655bf4302b6">Doomtrain</a>

[Punk Oblivion]

Now that I have the other two variants, these are the two builds I have settled into for grinding out mech XP for eliteing. Both are really simple builds, but work well for me.

KGC-0000-LaserSaw I run this with LPL cooldown/range mods. That mixed with the 0000's laser quirks let you fire them almost non-stop. High mounted lasers let you poke over hills or up/down cliffs better than your enemies. I would say 90% of the time I just run them on chainfire, hit detection seems to be almost 100% this way, so it seems to kill faster than some of my heavy dakka builds... speaking of...

KGC-000B -Hammer Fist I use AC5/LBX10 cooldown mods. I didn;t run this build right away, opting to quad UAC5's first, but I got tired of jams at the worst times so I tried this out as a higher damage Quad AC5 build. It works great. Good mix of direct damage from the AC5's and component destruction from the LBX10's once armor is stripped. I do tend to play this mech in brawler range to get the most out of the LBX10's. If only I could fit AC10's in with the AC5's... oh well.

Edit: Also, this is what I settled on for the 000(L):
KGC-000(L) - DakkaCrab I took off an AC2 for a bigger engine and more ammo. Two AC2's just ran too hot for my liking. If they ever fix AC2 heat I will go back to the full 4AC5/2AC2 loadout for sure.

Edited by Punk Oblivion, 22 January 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[Xythius]

I theoretical build I'm considering. Not sure if I want to turn loose of the c-bills for it yet or not.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e7c0f99a97b61fa

[Bluttrunken]

Sniper Crab
STD-Engine Version: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a4606e373969699

XL-Engine Version: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...da6912cf76486ef

[HlynkaCG]

They didn't give us the KGC-010 as a variant so I made my own

[Punk Oblivion]

It's back (until Friday evening)! The Dakka-pocolypse!

KGC-000(L)

[Milocinia]

I run 4x UAC5 and it's just total beast mode unless I'm the one being focused of course.

[That Dawg]

KGC-000

any one run this, or similar? the hot side DPS looks very inviting @ 12.50.
goes against the tradition crab cake, and doesn't take advantage of the quirks, still..its faster than a ac20 build, I've got srm and LPL modules.

[Punk Oblivion]

That Dawg, on 29 January 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

KGC-000

any one run this, or similar? the hot side DPS looks very inviting @ 12.50.
goes against the tradition crab cake, and doesn't take advantage of the quirks, still..its faster than a ac20 build, I've got srm and LPL modules.

I have ran builds like this. This is a clean-up build. But I personally think clean-up builds should be left to mediums/lights. This build just doesn't have enough firepower to go toe to toe against enemy assaults/heavies unless they are already beat up first.

Also if you switch from ferro to endo and shave a bit of armor off, you can upgrade to a STD350 with another heatsink: KGC-000

[Punk Oblivion]

Thought I would share another build that has been working really well for me. This is a short range brawling build, so you have to be patient and sneaky... well as sneaky as a 100 ton mech can be :-P

CraBrawler

I run an AC20 CD mod and an SRM6 range mod. I typically fire all the weapons on chain fire if possible to help hit detection. This also works well as all the weapons are on pretty much the same CD time. But you can fire the SRM's together, as well as alpha in a pinch without too much heat buildup as long as it's just a single alpha.

Edited by Punk Oblivion, 02 February 2015 - 12:08 PM.

[TheLuc]

that is the build that suits me the most

KGC-000, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7b5a1331e852433

[Kaiserz]

Well, those are my builds


KGC-000B Full

KGC-000B AC40/LRPL

[DukeRustfield]

I kind of stumbled on the Crab and had a lot of fun with 000B with LRMs just to unlock stuff. I planned on making a kind of Atlas-Brawler 0000 with 4 SRMs. But, you know, a DDC is a better DDC than a non-DDC. And I didn't want to practice by taking on and off Artemis.

This is my LRM boat build and it's one of my most successful mechs ever. Because the pods are high and torso, you can fire behind obstacles and almost never get obstructed. So I almost exclusively use it for indirect fire (so Artemis isn't helpful). It usually doesn't get tons of kills but gets lots of dmg and assists and for those of you who poopoo that, it gets waaaay more points and helps my teammates who have to deal with mechs who have missing arms and side torsos and weak CTs.

But the main thing is, when someone gets tired of me and charges, I am 100 tons with 4 medium pulse lasers and a standard engine. The arms have nothing in them. It's not easy to take down.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e7229c9f345173f

[SethAbercromby]

Texas shotgun Crab.

There is never enouff dakka, but this one makes the most of it. The AC5s give it some range while the LBs wreck stuff up close. Mediums help in focusing some more damage together with the ACs to get to the juicy internals for your LBs to chew on faster. Also, am I the only one who reads KCG-000(L) as "King Cool"?

[Nine-Ball]

I favor quad-AC5s over quad-UAC5s.

Is there a way to fire the UAC5s without jamming them all the time? Usually seem to jam one or two when I try to up my ROF (which is the point of using them).

Anyways, I tend to fire them all at once. The damage equivalent of an AC20 that can be fired every 1.66 seconds unbuffed, or 1.32 seconds with skill and modules and quirks. Add in the range similar to a Gauss and you have something that can easily rip apart anything short of another krab/direwolf.

Reason I favor AC5s over UAC5s is they are more reliable. Add in the weight saved to toss in two-LL and it turns into a beastly machine.

With the weight saved from not going UAC5s I tossed in 2 LLs to up the DPS over a certain period of time. Heat only becomes an issue if you keep firing the LL's 3 or 4 times while non-stop pumping out the quad-AC5s.

With this in mind:

- 2 volleys of AC5 roundsx4 = 40 damage every 3.04 seconds.
- 1 shot of dual-LLs = 18 damage every 3.25 seconds or so. (no modules yet)

Thats about 17.85 DPS. Sustainable about 3 or 4 times before you shutdown. Even if you just switch to AC5s you'll still be dealing out around 13.33 DPS alone.

So roughly every 10 seconds (6 AC5 volleys, 3 dual-LL shots) means you'll be dealing upwards of 174 damage. If the enemy gives you a clean line of sight and doesn't focus on you, well..

[ShadowbaneX]

There are some programs which will set it up, but I think those are frowned upon. As for the uACs vs standard, to each their own. One thing is that regardless of how often they jam, uAC/5s give higher DPS than their cousins, and with four of them you'll usually have 2 going at any given time...which is similar DPS to a quartet of AC/5s.

...and if they don't jam you can core out anything in a matter of a few seconds. So for 10 seconds that's 6 uAC/5 volleys, which is actually 12 volleys or 48 shots total. Optimally, that's like 240 damage. Going by a 15% jam chance (or 15% shots not hitting because it's late and i don't want to math) that's still ~200 damage...Which is still about 15% more damage than your AC/5s & LLs put together...and you can still have some room for 2-3 MLs to add another 40-60 damage if they're close enough.

Ultimately, it comes down to preference. I'll take the 15 (or 20%) jam chance for the option of putting 40 damage into something in under a second. Others prefer not risking the jams. That's fine to, it's fun on my CTF-4X and it'll probably be fun on the Mauler as well.