The Boz, on 10 December 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:
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Why Take An Atlas Over A King Crab?
#61
Posted 10 December 2014 - 04:29 AM
#62
Posted 10 December 2014 - 04:32 AM
Maybe there's a miscommunication somewhere?
#63
Posted 10 December 2014 - 04:41 AM
SgtMagor, on 10 December 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:
Smurfy says KGC has 60 deg/sec torso yaw speed with a 300 engine, which is the same as the Atlas. But KGC also has a 25% torso yaw speed increase quirk. so it actually has 75 deg/sec torso yaw speed. That's even more than a 15t lighter Stalker that has 70 deg/sec torso yaw speed with a 300 engine. It's simply too good to be balanced with other mechs but since KGC is a new mech available for MC right now, so........
Edit: KGC actually has even higher torso yaw rate than I thought at 75deg/sec with a darn 300 engine.
Edited by Torgun, 10 December 2014 - 04:53 AM.
#64
Posted 10 December 2014 - 05:41 AM
Johnny Z, on 10 December 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:
Its very likely in the works. The complaints about OP Omni mechs was answered by the quicks which no doubt was in the plans all along.
It's interesting but I think you give PGI far too much credit by suggesting that quirks and the other responses from PGI were in the plans all along. PGI is small. Most of the design decisions are ultimately handled by one person. Given the time frames involved I would suggest that all of the changes to the game are reactive not pro-active. After sufficient time and complaint, PGI (or perhaps it was IGP) realized there was an issue and responded with some change to try to address it.
If clan mechs turn out to still be more powerful than IS in CW then I believe what will happen is that PGI will apply hit point quirks ... either structure or armor ... across the board to all IS mechs ... probably scaled by tier. The result will be an increase in durability of IS mechs to balance the greater dps and effectiveness of clan weapons. This should balance out the "time to kill" stat for clan vs IS without requiring further clan nerfs which many might find irritating.
I believe that this can already be seen happening with the latest round of quirks. Increases to catapult arm and CT structure ... increases to hunchback structure ... arm armor bonus on king crab etc.
... but I don't think any of it was planned.
#65
Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:05 AM
because atlas also has some variants with 3 M in the torso. (S even 4)
because one atlas has a ECM.
because some atlas have more E points.
because quirks are different
because they are entirely different mechs at all with totally different features.
Edited by Lily from animove, 10 December 2014 - 06:08 AM.
#67
Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:49 AM
Lefty Lucy, on 10 December 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:
You realize that the KGC has a quirk that gives it better torso twist than an atlas no matter what engine you put in the atlas? Also, they both have exactly the same engine weights, so it's exactly as difficult/easy to put a big engine in either mech.
Yes, but Balistics are heavier and take up more crits. I've had no issues shoving a 325-350 in most Atlas builds. I've had trouble doing that in any King Crab builds I've fabricated. The second large Balistic area and need for more ammo is a big deal.
The Boz, on 09 December 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:
No, but being fast is.
DDC or S that's 10 KPH faster than the King Crab or Dire Wolf has an advantage on the battle field bringing it's armor and weapons to bear.
#68
Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:52 AM
#69
Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:53 AM
#70
Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:56 AM
JC Daxion, on 09 December 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:
Realistically, the King Crab is fun but it's pinpoint FLD requires open full body LOS...
Thus, to get the true value, you need to expose your full "wideness" to dominate... I can say that the Gargoyles I was running kept beating them in River City, Factory and Frozen City due to the need to navigate around things... Take away one arm.. you get the Hunchback and that is it....
Edited by Creovex, 10 December 2014 - 06:57 AM.
#71
Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:11 AM
Mawai, on 10 December 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:
Dunno, ever played any MOBA ever? The new characters are always overpowered for a week or two so that it helps generate sales for it, then they nerf it back to normal levels. I don't blame companies that do this because there are folks that "have to" have the newest that they perceive is the best.
The company can always claim it as a 'mistake' and then they fix it, but it happens enough that it sure does feel on purpose.
I'm eager to see how well these King Crabs stand up after the chaos of the queue settles down a bit and folks get them mastered more. Some of it could be folks just not knowing their weak points yet too, but time will tell if this is true or not.
#72
Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:21 AM
#73
Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:25 AM
#74
Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:55 AM
The Boz, on 10 December 2014 - 01:30 AM, said:
2. Atlas with a STD350 (hell, even with a 400) can not twist better than a King Crab with a 300.
1. The builds I tried could not make use of the carbs hardpoints and fit a 350.
2. From what I have seen, twisting with the crab does not shield it with its arms, it only exposes the huge STs, which are the soft spot...
Didn't make up my mind yet, but in a short range brawl I have a feeling that the Atlas may still be king. May be...
#75
Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:01 AM
#76
Posted 10 December 2014 - 03:34 PM
oldradagast, on 09 December 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:
King Crab Advantages
1) Extreme ballistics boating capability
2) High mounted weapon hardpoints (missiles and energy)
3) Rather short profile for a 100-ton mech.
The Crab's advantages are far more useful in nearly all cases. With some practice, the width of the King Crab and the negative effect that has on weapon convergence can be handled... but nothing can magically grant the Atlas a high-mounted weapon hardpoint or the ability to boat absurd amounts of ballistics.
In the end, unless you're using the ECM on the DDC, the Atlas really isn't worth it... the only way this conclusion would be countered is if the King Crab has serious hitbox or mobility issues, and I haven't see any strong evidence for either of those yet.
well after a night of Lurming for crabs,, i can say boy, do these things suck up missles, and not in a good way.. the way the spread on the crabs, you can wreck um in a very short time. I swear out of the 20+ matches i played, a Crab only took the top spot a couple of times, most of the time they were in the middle damage range, or near the bottom.
They also have HUGE arms.. so easy to hit from so many locations were you are in zero danger of being hit by the massive weaponry. . I can't wait for another night of Lurming.. Not to mention dropping art strikes on um.. to slow to even get out of the way even dropping the smoke right in front of um.
Sure last thing i want is to round a corner and come face to face with one,, but that is pilot error, not me playing a bad mech..
But people really need to get over this whole if you bring X mech, you are hurting your team.. cause most of the time that is such crap.. the pilot makes the mech.. If i had a dollar for every time a dire, or timber, or any other "best mech" in the game dropped with under 100 damage, i'd have enough cash to buy every style mech in PGI gold versions..
#77
Posted 11 December 2014 - 04:42 PM
#78
Posted 11 December 2014 - 04:45 PM
#79
Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:40 PM
They have the same engine rating ranges so whining that the Crab is slower because you have to sacrifice some engine tonnage to actually mount that insane array of weaponry you want to is hardly an argument. That's like arguing your pickup truck is slow because you insist on filling the bed with cement.
On durability, it is true that the crab can't arm tank as well as the atlas due to design. It's also true that the first crit after torso armor is stripped means an Atlas is losing that AC/20 even if the torso's internal structure survives the entire match. Extra armor is far superior to extra internal structure. The Crab is, however, considerably more compact vertically than an atlas and can peep for shots. The atlas doesn't have this option. The Crab does take LRM's like an apartment complex, though I'm not sure if the Atlas' tall profile is really any better in this regard.
I think the biggest concern is when an atlas is coming at you, you pretty much know what you're going to get. It's that, or terrible. The crab is more versatile, and can mount pretty much anything the Atlas can with the exception of ECM if it wants to. Apart from ECM it seems to make the Atlas obsolete.
#80
Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:50 PM
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