187 replies to this topic

[Jetfire]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 December 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Cause the better team will always beat the less coordinated team. I've been saying it for months now. Why is it a problem?

This is basically as it should be.

Krivvan, on 12 December 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

We on Lords HATE the spawn camping. We generally hate playing the Defend gametype because of that. But we've been doing it because it's the fastest way to make the game end and the way the game plays out is exactly the same if we were camping the base or the passes. We even had a few games where the other team refused to break down the gate and told us to come out to their spawn to fight them when we were defending.

That's why we want a way to end the Defend gametype early if it really is a stomp. So we don't waste everyone's time with completely boring and unfun spawn camping.

Personally I want nothing more than to play Attack gametypes when we actually attack a planet and can go for the generator instead of spending 9.5/10 games defending counterattacks instead. It's games like these that I want:

Defend really should not have a FAST MODE, you either hold them off or they kill you. If you don't like defending just let planets fall then attack to win them back.

[Khobai]

Quote

We on Lords HATE the spawn camping.

Quote

Defend really should not have a FAST MODE, you either hold them off or they kill you. If you don't like defending just let planets fall then attack to win them back.

Agreed. If you hate something and do it anyway theres something wrong with YOU, not the gamemode. Is the gamemode flawed for allowing spawn camping? Yes. But players who claim to hate it and then contribute further to the problem rather than setting a good example for the rest of the community are pathetic.

Your whole justification is disgusting.

You claim you hate spawn camping but do it anyway because you want to avoid a long game which you know youll win anyway... but what youre failing to realize is that winning is not the only reason to play the game. you can still have fun while losing the game too.

All youre doing is destroying the spirit of the game, depriving others of enjoyment, for your own laziness and self-aggrandizement. because all you care about is winning and you cant be bothered to play the game the way it was intended.

Edited by Khobai, 12 December 2014 - 05:06 AM.

[Johnny Z]

I think they found a great balance on these new maps. I hope they dont mess with it to much.

[w00tzor]

Khobai, on 12 December 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Agreed. If you hate something and do it anyway theres something wrong with YOU, not the gamemode.

There is something wrong with people that actually refuse to ATTACK when they are attackers. For god's sake i'm never gonna sit in base for 30 mins because "they don't want to attack us". If you are attacking a planet you'd better do that or instead go play tetris.

And if someone does that the option is only one, go and get them. I don't want to waste 30 mins of gameplay 'cause of scrubs.

[Widowmaker1981]

People can only play who they are matched against.. you want them to do badly on purpose? no one is going to do that. so don't ask, its pointless. Rather, ask for mechanics to be implemented that prevent it..

for example, if spawn camping by the defenders is a problem, then change the spawn point. Put a big wall/hill around it with a landed Union class dropship inside the spawn area, with like 10,000 HP and 10s of Gauss rifles, then make the spawn area kinda 'out of bounds' with a 2 minute timer - so people cant get spawn killed, and they can regroup for a push, but they cant just hide in there and never come out.

I also support a solo only CW queue, if there is population to support it - or adding the attack/defend dropship game mode to the public queue would do just as well tbh. Id also like to see groups of people with no unit/different units being able to queue up as long as they were all the same faction, but i can see why that's hard to implement.

[Krivvan]

Khobai, on 12 December 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Agreed. If you hate something and do it anyway theres something wrong with YOU, not the gamemode.

The alternative was to sit inside the base waiting for 30 minutes alt-tabbed and having the game end.

Jetfire, on 12 December 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

This is basically as it should be.

Defend really should not have a FAST MODE, you either hold them off or they kill you. If you don't like defending just let planets fall then attack to win them back.

Have you not played CW? We exclusively attacked Apollo, yet the vast majority of our games were Defend games because it was defending counterattacks. If given the chance we would never choose to defend as a group when we could attack instead. CW does not allow you to choose whether to Attack or Defend.

This isn't limited to just us either. A lot of units have been getting frustrated at playing Defend when they wanted to play Attack and spent Defend games spawn camping in order to make it end faster.

Edited by Krivvan, 12 December 2014 - 05:03 AM.

[Krivvan]

Khobai, on 12 December 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

You claim you hate spawn camping but do it anyway because you want to avoid a long game which you know youll win anyway... but what youre failing to realize is that winning is not the only reason to play the game. you can still have fun while losing the game too.

All youre doing is destroying the spirit of the game, depriving others of enjoyment, for your own laziness and self-aggrandizement. because all you care about is winning and you cant be bothered to play the game the way it was intended.

Spawn camping is the exact same thing as camping the pass on Boreal. There is quite literally no difference except we get put at a disadvantage for pushing out to the spawn. We don't spawn camp on Sulphuric because it's actually risky to do it there.

And let's see how many games of being told "we're not coming in your base, you better come out here to our spawn" you could take before you decided pushing out was the way to make it more fun for both parties.

Edited by Krivvan, 12 December 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Krivvan, on 12 December 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

The alternative was to sit inside the base waiting for 30 minutes alt-tabbed and having the game end.


Have you not played CW? We exclusively attacked Apollo, yet the vast majority of our games were Defend games because it was defending counterattacks. If given the chance we would never choose to defend as a group when we could attack instead. CW does not allow you to choose whether to Attack or Defend.

This isn't limited to just us either. A lot of units have been getting frustrated at playing Defend when they wanted to play Attack and spent Defend games spawn camping in order to make it end faster.

I only seen one none 12 man fight for Jade Falcon today on Apollo. If the 12 mans were winning all the matches they would have capped it. But they arnt.

If it makes the Jade Falcon guys feel any better I think they will eventually cap it.

Props to all the independant Mechwarriors out there free dropping across the star map into different fights and doing extremely well. In most cases out numbered.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 December 2014 - 05:09 AM.

[Krivvan]

Johnny Z, on 12 December 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

I only seen one none 12 man fight for Jade Falcon today on Apollo. If the 12 mans were winning all the matches they would have capped it. But they arnt.

If it makes the Jade Falcon guys feel any better I think they will eventually cap it.

It really doesn't help that there's a bug right now where the game will fail to bring everyone into the lobby and it counts as an automatic loss, thereby causing a counterattack to occur. This would result in far, far more counterattacks than should happen when attacking a planet.

[Johnny Z]

Krivvan, on 12 December 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

It really doesn't help that there's a bug right now where the game will fail to bring everyone into the lobby and it counts as an automatic loss, thereby causing a counterattack to occur. This would result in far, far more counterattacks than should happen when attacking a planet.

Yep its buggy and video laggy.

[Khobai]

Quote

And let's see how many games of being told "we're not coming in your base, you better come out here to our spawn" you could take before you decided pushing out was the way to make it more fun for both parties.

If the attacker doesnt attack they lose. The only problem there is the half hour wait time.

The way it should be is the attackers should have to buy more time by destroying gates. The attackers should lose in 10 minutes unless they destroy a gate. And then after a gate is destroyed they get +20 minutes on the clock.

Additionally to prevent spawn camping the defender's spawn points should be moved as far away from the objective as possible. Additionally dropships should have very scary weaponry that discourages spawn camping. Right now some large lasers and a couple medium lasers hardly qualifies as scary. Especially when the dropships only stick around long enough to fire once or twice. Leopard dropships are also supposed to have a pair of PPCs if I recall.

Edited by Khobai, 12 December 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[Johnny Z]

The star map will most likely be more fluid once the bugs are out and it wont be so tough for dedicated 12 mans to cap a planets.

But my main point is the balance is fairly good right now and even none 12 man teams can do well.

[Krivvan]

If you people want to see what the spawncamping in question is like here it is from the perspective of the losing side:

31:23:
http://www.twitch.tv...601477?t=31m23s

When the map isn't Boreal, we don't spawn camp:

2:23:00:
www.twitch.tv/ngngtv/v/3601477?t=02h23m06s

Khobai, on 12 December 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

The way it should be is the attackers should have to buy more time by destroying gates. The attackers should lose in 10 minutes unless they destroy a gate. And then after a gate is destroyed they get +20 minutes on the clock.

I would be completely happy with this.

Edited by Krivvan, 12 December 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[B0oN]

@Adiuvo
It was a touch unclear you guys were defending, was too lazy to read the whole thread, sorry for that .
Still quite harsh letting your enemies not even get a foot down to "try" to defend themselves .

And my intentions behind that ?
Not much, just being curious, since I know you´re so good that your collective noses point skywards and make your nostrils fill with water every time you walk in rain

Interesting though that such high-classed players as you lot look down so much upon the "sheep" they so often so easily defeat, even if it is all in good mockery .
Oh well, skill rarely equals class, ´cause if you guys were as classy as you were good, you would be damnably likeable besides that too and we can´t have that, can´t we

You guys from HoL still have my respect for your skill as players, but I would highly doubt me going for a beer with youses .

Greetings and keep on rocking .

Oh, as a P.S.:
Maybe advise PGI a bit more on good map-layouts, I think you can and they listen to you

[Saladin Salazar]

So why did they not kill the objective instead of spawn killing the pugs, very poor sportsmanship, but there are those players in every game.

[Bigbacon]

Johnny Z, on 12 December 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

The star map will most likely be more fluid once the bugs are out and it wont be so tough for dedicated 12 mans to cap a planets.

But my main point is the balance is fairly good right now and even none 12 man teams can do well.

this is only because it is so new. Once they get a better feel for what works and what doesn't this will change.

I don't fully understand why a team wouldn't want to attack, that is just weird. At least try. Are you guys saying they never even opened a gate they jst stood there at the spawn and did nothing?

I like the suggestion above about the time limit being much smaller until they open a gate. I also like the suggestion of having this game mode either as a normal thing for everyone to play outside of CW or having some mechanic involved that allows solo folks to fight only other solo folks in CW. it is needed.

[Krivvan]

Rad Hanzo, on 12 December 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

It was a touch unclear you guys were defending, was too lazy to read the whole thread, sorry for that .
Still quite harsh letting your enemies not even get a foot down to "try" to defend themselves .

Honestly, the way I see it, until the actual moment that there are no enemies on the field except for those coming in dropship (which is usually near the end anyways), pushing out towards their spawn is giving them a pretty significant handicap and giving them better spawn positions than us that have to walk across the map when we die.

Saladin Salazar, on 12 December 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

So why did they not kill the objective instead of spawn killing the pugs, very poor sportsmanship, but there are those players in every game.

We were playing Defend (even though we were attacking a planet, because we were defending a counterattack). There was no objective to kill besides killing all 48 attackers.

Edited by Krivvan, 12 December 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[Bigbacon]

Rad Hanzo, on 12 December 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

@Adiuvo
Not much, just being curious, since I know you´re so good that your collective noses point skywards and make your nostrils fill with water every time you walk in rain

Interesting though that such high-classed players as you lot look down so much upon the "sheep" they so often so easily defeat, even if it is all in good mockery .
Oh well, skill rarely equals class, ´cause if you guys were as classy as you were good, you would be damnably likeable besides that too and we can´t have that, can´t we

You guys from HoL still have my respect for your skill as players, but I would highly doubt me going for a beer with youses .

And this...I really wish the high end players would just get over this mentality a bit and help everyone else enjoy the game as a community. You are part of the problem. Not everyone can be that good, spend the time to play, etc etc.

[Appogee]

Adiuvo, on 11 December 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

And lol at that last sentence. Someone doesn't know the team...

Yeah, I thought that statement was quite ironic too LOL.

[Hastur Azargo]

Hello, first day of CW!

We now have all the basic tropes of player-driven sandbox with high stakes. More talented and coordinated people beating more casual ones. Some of victors being smug about their "achievements", some of vanquished taking their "defeats" too seriously. It's like EVE all over again!

Fellow players, as a pug, I knew for a longest time that competitive teams are going to dominate CW. Fine, at least we still have solo queue where I can play without needing a team or committing like a sportsman. After all, it's not up to Lords or any other team to make CW playable for us pugs, we have PGI for that. Whether or not you like the elitist attitude of certain people from top teams is also beside the point. I hate elitism with passion, but the only logical thing to do in this situation is to just not play CW without a team. There's really no point in filling out this topic with rage, because it will just change nothing. If people didn't care about opinion of those they defeat in the first place, they're not gonna start caring after 10 pages of a forum thread where people call them out.

So let's just all go play the parts of this game that are playable for us, and if/when there are no longer such parts, let's tell PGI about it and see what happens. Let's keep calm and be constructive.