467 replies to this topic

[naterist]

im curious, send me your best awnsers.

draochts thoughts on the matter would be particularly nice to hear.

[justcallme A S H]

Who's thoughts?

[naterist]

https://mwomercs.com...82063-draiocht/

[Eisenhorne]

The realization that you're gonna have to spend some money on it to get more mech bays probably doesn't help. You're not gonna get very far with only 4 mech bays. And you cannot just buy one for a dollar, you need to buy $7 worth of MC to get a few. Then you start looking at MC prices for things, and quickly come to the realization that they want like $20.00 per battlemech! That seems crazy high, so eventually you just decide to hell with it and go back to PUBG or whatever other thing you're playing.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I am sure there are lots of reasons...but I’ll bite on giving my “best reason” (I.e...what I think is the greatest single factor)

When their 1.2 k/d in tier based QP immediately tanks to .2 in FW, new players think the odds of their success are hopelessly stacked against them here....(for various reasons much discussed on these forums). Yet, these players fail to realize (or won’t believe if told) that the “Apple” of (at least modest) success in FW is not a mile above their heads, but within arms reach... group up and listen to the veterans. It will get better pretty quickly when you do that.

[Johnathan Tanner]

naterist, on 26 January 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

im curious, send me your best awnsers.

draochts thoughts on the matter would be particularly nice to hear.

[naterist]

Johnathan Tanner, on 26 January 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

lets discuss haxxors, and the prevalence of pawgs in mwo.

[Johnathan Tanner]

naterist, on 26 January 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

lets discuss haxxors, and the prevalence of pawgs in mwo.

Oh Marcus,We hardly knew ye.

[K O Z A K]

objectively? between the insane learning curve this game has and it's forced team based gameplay (not saying this is bad, it's one of the things I enjoy the most, but I can see how for many this would be a turn off). And this is not unique to FP, it's MWO in general

to get to a level where you really can enjoy this game(+mode) you need to:

- spend a shitton of money OR grind like hell for 6 months+
- go outside the game, and research additional resources to learn about meta builds, strats, the abomination that is the skill tree
- join a unit, or drop with a unit

for FP specifics we all know what no matchmaker, and no solo/group split does, and we all know that there's no way around this because too few ppl play FP

add to the mix that this is a horribly optimized 5 year old game, and I think everyone needs to adjust their expectations of how much player retention is possible at this point

[Jack Booted Thug]

Because this game can be very confusing for new players for a variety of reasons.

I've interacted with them in QP and CW on coms, and we've had new players in the DERP channel back when we were playing most nights of the week and find they get confusing and flat out bad information from a variety of sources.

Also - what they see in quick play starting out in tier 4/5 they don't get to see what really works. They don't even know endo saves more weight than ferro - I didn't the first time I played.

But - we had a new player with 4 mechs drop with us for a few weeks in CW, he went from a few hundred damage to his first 2k match in about a month - by getting good mech and build suggestions along with positioning and group play guidance.

New players quit out of frustration probably, or see the time investment or grind in learning everything to be excessively confusing.

Some aren't even aware of the forums or team speak.

[Vxheous]

Jack Booted Thug, on 26 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

Because this game can be very confusing for new players for a variety of reasons.

I've interacted with them in QP and CW on coms, and we've had new players in the DERP channel back when we were playing most nights of the week and find they get confusing and flat out bad information from a variety of sources.

Also - what they see in quick play starting out in tier 4/5 they don't get to see what really works. They don't even know endo saves more weight than ferro - I didn't the first time I played.

But - we had a new player with 4 mechs drop with us for a few weeks in CW, he went from a few hundred damage to his first 2k match in about a month - by getting good mech and build suggestions along with positioning and group play guidance.

New players quit out of frustration probably, or see the time investment or grind in learning everything to be excessively confusing.

Some aren't even aware of the forums or team speak.

Yup, and even if they go to seek info, there is so much bad advice floating around that leads to many players getting buried in potato land.

Edited by Vxheous, 26 January 2018 - 03:32 PM.

[Stealthrider]

Echoing what I've said in other threads, the number one reason players new to FP (regardless of their overall MWO playtime, number of mechs and QP experience) quit is that the primary means of improving are from out-of-game sources rather than in-game ones.

The vast majority of players in any online game never visit official or unofficial forums or use third party programs to voice chat. One can shout from the hills about how easy it is to form a group, join a unit, etc but it'll fall on deaf ears--or, rather, no ears at all--if it's all done here or on reddit. For whatever their reasons (too much hassle, distrust of third party programs, dislike of the typically salty forums/reddit threads for games, etc) they will not spend time that could be spent in-game on out-of-game efforts.

The experience of being spawn-camped and instantly murdered before they can even move doesn't help, but it isn't the reason they don't stick around. The reason they don't stick around is that the means of preventing that isn't something that can be easily done through more, normal gameplay: playing against other pugs doesn't teach you much and playing against teams doesn't teach you much, either, unless you're in a team yourself. So, the new player doesn't learn and continues having bad experiences until he gives up and leaves. Those that stick around either accept the stompings in the hopes that they'll improve over time enough to overcome them, while enjoying the occasional victories against other pugs and even more occasional victories against teams (something I can attest to is definitely worth it, when a pug drop you call ends up beating a 12 man it feels fantastic) or they bite the bullet and embrace the forums, reddit and teamspeak.

If the community is to grow, though, it needs those new players. Veterans eventually leave. Without new blood to replace them, the mode stagnates and drops off. Therefore, some form of in-game initiative is the best way to grow the mode and keep it from stagnating further. Plenty of people have different ideas about howto do it, but the current "just let them come here/to reddit and put in the effort to find the TS servers" is not going to reach the vast majority and therefore not produce results.

Edited by Stealthrider, 26 January 2018 - 03:35 PM.

[The Basilisk]

naterist, on 26 January 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

im curious, send me your best awnsers.

draochts thoughts on the matter would be particularly nice to hear.

There are your answers over and over again.
One part of the community tryhard trollish and unable to get lost to the abysmal pits of tryhard wannabe pro town
and the other part of the community unwilling to put in efford join teams and learn how to play.


https://mwomercs.com...point-was-made/

https://mwomercs.com...an-do-about-it/

[justcallme A S H]

naterist, on 26 January 2018 - 12:58 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...82063-draiocht/

[Jack Booted Thug]

Stealthrider, on 26 January 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

Echoing what I've said in other threads, the number one reason players new to FP (regardless of their overall MWO playtime, number of mechs and QP experience) quit is that the primary means of improving are from out-of-game sources rather than in-game ones.

The vast majority of players in any online game never visit official or unofficial forums or use third party programs to voice chat. One can shout from the hills about how easy it is to form a group, join a unit, etc but it'll fall on deaf ears--or, rather, no ears at all--if it's all done here or on reddit. For whatever their reasons (too much hassle, distrust of third party programs, dislike of the typically salty forums/reddit threads for games, etc) they will not spend time that could be spent in-game on out-of-game efforts.

The experience of being spawn-camped and instantly murdered before they can even move doesn't help, but it isn't the reason they don't stick around. The reason they don't stick around is that the means of preventing that isn't something that can be easily done through more, normal gameplay: playing against other pugs doesn't teach you much and playing against teams doesn't teach you much, either, unless you're in a team yourself. So, the new player doesn't learn and continues having bad experiences until he gives up and leaves. Those that stick around either accept the stompings in the hopes that they'll improve over time enough to overcome them, while enjoying the occasional victories against other pugs and even more occasional victories against teams (something I can attest to is definitely worth it, when a pug drop you call ends up beating a 12 man it feels fantastic) or they bite the bullet and embrace the forums, reddit and teamspeak.

If the community is to grow, though, it needs those new players. Veterans eventually leave. Without new blood to replace them, the mode stagnates and drops off. Therefore, some form of in-game initiative is the best way to grow the mode and keep it from stagnating further. Plenty of people have different ideas about howto do it, but the current "just let them come here/to reddit and put in the effort to find the TS servers" is not going to reach the vast majority and therefore not produce results.

Yup, this game was my first time using team speak, wasn't even aware of its existence prior to a unit (Remnant) inviting me to play with them after a couple really fun quick play matches with one of their members. I was maybe a few months into the game, mostly playing with my Spider 5d, not even speed tweaked, getting to be a moderately solid player but still not very knowledgeable in the grand scheme of things. They were good experienced comp players at one time and dropped a lot of good information.

The new player experience in this game is not typical for most games, when you're new you have no clue how much information you're missing out on until you visit solid outside sources or until more experienced members clue you in.

This is the first game I've ever played where most of my information did not come from game play itself or at least in game tutorials etc...

[ANOM O MECH]

The mode appeals to people who are more invested than average players. (speaking of time/effort and not skill here)

You can't just jump in, like you can in quick play, and have success.

Between drop decks, learning to actually be coordinated, different strategies on maps, etc...

CW is almost like a rec league, where loosely knit teams form. Unfortunately those teams will also be matched up against pick up players for all of the reasons we won't get into.

So between a lot of people who will never want to be that involved in MWO, and new players not having a clear or easy path or information (anywhere about any aspect of this game really) they might need or to help them, why would they stay? Those of us that have, have had to put in a lot of effort to really get into and involved in CW. Even more to start to see some wins.

[ANOM O MECH]

Vxheous, on 26 January 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

Yup, and even if they go to seek info, there is so much bad advice floating around that leads to many players getting buried in potato land.

If only we had world champions to turn to and ask for advice....

Oh wait we do and when they try to help, the brown sea craps all over them.

Thankfully Baradul is here to help.

Those legendary builds of his are rapidly eclipsing the man behind them.

naterist, on 26 January 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

lets discuss haxxors, and the prevalence of pawgs in mwo.

Can't believe I am going to but....

dat is not de wai

[Wolfgang Grenzstein]

let us be honest:

There is no specific reason "new" players quit, there are only reasons "players" quit.

And the most important one is:

Matchmaker is crap. When the majority of games are stomps one way or another (depending upon which side loses the first couple mechs) the fun factor is severly limited.

You want a semblance of a fair fight where you feel like you made a difference. A "gitgoodn00b" will not do.

[Nightbird]

No single player campaign that holds their hand and teaches them how to pilot

[Asym]

I've retired and I'm here less than a year because PGI stole the mech's I purchased lethality and agility and then, went on to ruin anything that was left. Spent real money and 2 months later, ZAP, playing with crap....

Terrible grind with terrible game play (especially FP)..... Hopless because PGI does not care and does not communicate.