467 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

Quote

So, Why Do New Players Quit?

I missed the last 2 threads

so lets go

new players








and lastly

[KingCobra]

Here op let me give you the quick answer.



The lords of MWO have for 5 years now let organized teams and exploiters rule MWO in group QP and FP so all the new baby seals have died and there is just no more baby seals coming to play MWO or support the game.

The lords of MWO should have split all queues long ago now it might not matter since the games population is like 5000 active players and the game is all but dead.

Edited by KingCobra, 26 January 2018 - 11:18 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

KingCobra, on 26 January 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

Here op let me give you the quick answer.



The lords of MWO have for 5 years now let organized teams and exploiters rule MWO in group QP and FP so all the new baby seals have died and there is just no more baby seals coming to play MWO or support the game.

The lords of MWO should have split all queues long ago now it might not matter since the games population is like 5000 active players and the game is all but dead.

[Merle]

As a very new player (I started playing over Christmas and decided to stay)... I think all of you 'experienced' folks are missing some key issues. Yes, the "balance" in your minds is all over the place... but that's the same in any FPS type game. What blows goats as a new player is the absolute lack of knowledge available in-game or fairly reasonable about all of the garbage UI issues that make for a series of horrible matches.

I very nearly quit, myself, after 4 random matches in a row where I got (what I now know is) LRMd and RAC'd to death. I was running long, and next thing I knew my visible screen was functionally useless and shaking so much it was impossible to attack, and I had no idea why. I died not having a clue what the *@#% just happened. If PGI wants to keep people, the learning curve needs to be smoothed out a little.

Another suggestion would be to minimize the impact of skills on folks <25 games into their existence. I hadn't a clue just how critical that stuff was until days/weeks into playing. I didn't know because I didn't have the XP to unlock anything and the in-game tutorial is crap. In my opinion I am fortunate - I am both committed (I loved BattleTech as a kid and refuse to give up on giving this place a shot) and prosperous (I'm willing to buy my first 5 dozen mechs because it's amusing). Many others won't have the cards stacked so fully in PGI's favor

[Fake News]

they leave because they are weak. you must be made of iron to fight here.

[sub2000]

Jack Booted Thug, on 26 January 2018 - 04:53 PM, said:

Yup, this game was my first time using team speak, wasn't even aware of its existence prior to a unit (Remnant) inviting me to play with them after a couple really fun quick play matches with one of their members. I was maybe a few months into the game, mostly playing with my Spider 5d, not even speed tweaked, getting to be a moderately solid player but still not very knowledgeable in the grand scheme of things. They were good experienced comp players at one time and dropped a lot of good information.

The new player experience in this game is not typical for most games, when you're new you have no clue how much information you're missing out on until you visit solid outside sources or until more experienced members clue you in.

This is the first game I've ever played where most of my information did not come from game play itself or at least in game tutorials etc...

Granted Unreal Tournament, QIII or TF were not better in therms of in-game tutorials or info, the gap between the level of team and pug play I claim was no less than here, but there you had enough population for "natural MM" to smooth things up.
Main problem of MWO is not that new players leave, it is natural process of searching "your" game, the problem is that no new players come in reasonable numbers. It is invisible game.
The problem of low population is that however good MM you get, you will have all kind of players in one game making playing unrewarding for everybody. No contest for good players, getting clubbed for bad.

[PFC Carsten]

Merle, on 27 January 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

I very nearly quit, myself, after 4 random matches in a row where I got (what I now know is) LRMd and RAC'd to death. I was running long, and next thing I knew my visible screen was functionally useless and shaking so much it was impossible to attack, and I had no idea why. I died not having a clue what the *@#% just happened.

I want to take up on this point, because I felt nearly the same at the beginning of my MWO career and actually did quit for a few months before deciding to give it another shot. Being non-tutored by a group and not able to be bothered to filter through hundreds of bovine crap YT videos to find the one with actual useful info, it took me about 100 matches to score my first kill I think. In the end, I got there, doing ok for my taste in QP and having fun outside of the mandatory stomps that happen.

So, currently the in-game tutorial teaches you basic movement and basic shooting (maybe even things about range? I don't remember). What it should do as well is teach you basics about map awareness, (knowing where to look for) cover and get there as well as a mandatory exam that is not like „show me how you can press W and A or D at the same time“ but rather how to stay alive, how to avoid enemy fire, positioning and teamwork (basics, really, like focus fire) and how to shoot moving targets without having to stop your mech and switch form steering wheel to joystick.

With basic skills necessary to have fun in the game aquired through such an exam, before you can actually join the slaughter, would safe the new players from unnecessary and dire frustration as well as improve actual match quality whenever one team needs to carry very clueless people like I was in the beginning (sorry for that!) as well.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 27 January 2018 - 03:07 AM.

[TWIAFU]

KingCobra, on 26 January 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

Here op let me give you the quick answer.



The lords of MWO have for 5 years now let organized teams and exploiters rule MWO in group QP and FP so all the new baby seals have died and there is just no more baby seals coming to play MWO or support the game.

The lords of MWO should have split all queues long ago now it might not matter since the games population is like 5000 active players and the game is all but dead.

As a Lord of MWO that plays as part of an organized team in the organized team queue and exploits teamwork in the teamwork focus queue, you filthy serfs wallowing in your pig crap have to rise above the sh*t you like to swim in, wash yourself off, and realize the sh*t you have been playing does not work in the hierarchy of play.

As a Lord of MWO, I have wasted enough time to try and help your precious baby seasl you are protecting from their own stupidity. Now, as you have made me Lord of MWO, I command you, and you alone, to hold court with your baby seals and teach them all what they need to know about playing CW after they installed in game.

You are now in charge of all baby seals in MWO. All seal clubbing that happens from now on is your fault. You will have failed all seals by not taking them under your wing as showing them everything they need to know to play solo against teamwork.

You being the Champion of Seals, like your new title?, only you can train and protect all seals from being stupid AF and then blaming everyone and everything else for it, now they all can and should blame you.

Lord of MWO hath spoken.

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 26 January 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

Here op let me give you the quick answer.



The lords of MWO have for 5 years now let organized teams and exploiters rule MWO in group QP and FP so all the new baby seals have died and there is just no more baby seals coming to play MWO or support the game.

The lords of MWO should have split all queues long ago now it might not matter since the games population is like 5000 active players and the game is all but dead.

And I have enjoyed every minute of it.

Come gimme some more of that tasty stuff you're putting down.

ofc, on that "alt account" you keep claiming to play under.

[Eirik Eriksson]

I can try to imagine a scenario based on my own experience.

Lets imagine most newer players will stay in QP until they have grinded enough to have 4 own mechs in their garage.

At this stage you will need more bays, and those free ones in FP will start to look very tempting. However, at this stage, they would be very lucky if they find that any of the mechs they own are even remotely suitable for FP.

But, they will give it a shot anyhow and thus get their first experience of how it is to play FP. Heavily handicaped by their initial mech choices, and most would prolly be better of just taking some of the trial mechs to battle.

[Jack Booted Thug]

sub2000, on 27 January 2018 - 02:01 AM, said:

Granted Unreal Tournament, QIII or TF were not better in therms of in-game tutorials or info, the gap between the level of team and pug play I claim was no less than here, but there you had enough population for "natural MM" to smooth things up.
Main problem of MWO is not that new players leave, it is natural process of searching "your" game, the problem is that no new players come in reasonable numbers. It is invisible game.
The problem of low population is that however good MM you get, you will have all kind of players in one game making playing unrewarding for everybody. No contest for good players, getting clubbed for bad.

I played Half Life and all it's mods, Unreal, Battlefield, etc.... and I can say most FPS are pretty strait forward, no tutorial was really needed. I had a solid handle on them after a few hours play and tweaking the controls - then it was just learning the maps, finer points of jump crouching, etc..

People can play this game for months, even years and still be confused - just look at the discussions / debates on forums all the time about random crap that experienced players still get wrong.

Hell, I'd been throwing a targeting computer on my streak mechs and it just speeds up targeting info but not targeting lock time which is what I thought it helped with initially.

[Bud Crue]

Why do new players quit? Probably for many of the same reasons that cause old players to quit. We all know why.

But who cares. This thread was a well done effort to mock certain individuals and their conduct here. More of this please. The people deserve it...some more than others.

[sub2000]

Jack Booted Thug, on 27 January 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

I played Half Life and all it's mods, Unreal, Battlefield, etc.... and I can say most FPS are pretty strait forward, no tutorial was really needed. I had a solid handle on them after a few hours play and tweaking the controls - then it was just learning the maps, finer points of jump crouching, etc..

People can play this game for months, even years and still be confused - just look at the discussions / debates on forums all the time about random crap that experienced players still get wrong.

Hell, I'd been throwing a targeting computer on my streak mechs and it just speeds up targeting info but not targeting lock time which is what I thought it helped with initially.

"Playing strait forward" you were bond to loose with 0kills team games in Unreal Tournament. At some level you do need to understand game mechanics. Positioning, spawns for players and weapons, how weapons operate etc.
When gamespy died we were getting games with 0 deaths, as a result retired to private servers and in the end simply quite.

Edited by sub2000, 28 January 2018 - 06:51 AM.

[Sjorpha]

The game requires a big investment to enjoy, but at the same time the endgame content for those who make that investment is extremely limited. So some new players will leave because they are casual and not prepared to invest that much in a game, but also some serious players who would be will decide not to do it because they see the limited endgame and choose another game to invest in.

If MWO had a rich endgame it would be ok that it was rough to get into, because the ones who did would be very loyal and the population could grow slowly. PGI has tried to increase accessibility by dumbing down and making FP more simple, but since it is still too rough for uninvested players to stay in, the only consequence of that simplification is that there is now less reason for the invested players to stay.

Faction Play should be designed primarily to make staying on for the long haul worth the investment. That means focusing on adding depth for units and factions, that means more options and more complexity. There IS enough people prepared to coordinate as we saw during phase 2, there IS enough potential invested players to make this mode work, if only it was designed with those people in mind rahter than dumbed down.

In April 2016 I made a topic: FW endgame suggestion, where I argued for some fairly simple but strategically deep mechanics on the galactic map to make the mode more interesting for players interested in large scale coordination, primarily a way to win wars between factions so there was this long term goal for being a loyalist, something to fight for other than reward systems. This was before the phase 3 disaster.

PGI went in the complete opposite direction of my suggestion, rather than increase the motivation for units they went out of their way to actively destroy this motivation, because they were so confused about their own game mode that they somehow thought engaged and invested community initiatives and large well motivated units was a bad thing.

That isn't a conspiracy, PGI openly expressed the desire to destroy large units like MS and make large scale coordination harder and less rewarding. That is such an insanely regressive line of thought that it's very very hard to comprehend, for me that had hoped and argued for more strategic depth and MORE reasons for engagement in units and factions this was a punch in the balls for sure.

They removed reasons for invested players to stay, they didn't add any real reasons for uninvested players to play either. The population is bleeding out because PGI has employed a defeatist and frankly suicidal design philosophy since the release o phase 3.

Edited by Sjorpha, 28 January 2018 - 07:31 AM.

[Windscape]

New players quit beacuse


te lazer es tew stronge

[ANOM O MECH]

Jack Booted Thug, on 27 January 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

I played Half Life and all it's mods, Unreal, Battlefield, etc.... and I can say most FPS are pretty strait forward, no tutorial was really needed. I had a solid handle on them after a few hours play and tweaking the controls - then it was just learning the maps, finer points of jump crouching, etc..

People can play this game for months, even years and still be confused - just look at the discussions / debates on forums all the time about random crap that experienced players still get wrong.

Hell, I'd been throwing a targeting computer on my streak mechs and it just speeds up targeting info but not targeting lock time which is what I thought it helped with initially.

Well I will one up you for most potato....

I had mechs with minimal heat sinks equipped, with max cool run in skill tree.

Oh and did the exact same thing with the few lrm and streak mechs I have, with TC's.

[50 50]

tker 669, on 26 January 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

The mode appeals to people who are more invested than average players. (speaking of time/effort and not skill here)

Bit like unlocking the content.
Might have been a thing to pay to get access, see what the uptake was and as a way to fund further development in the mode.

[MischiefSC]

Merle, on 27 January 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

As a very new player (I started playing over Christmas and decided to stay)... I think all of you 'experienced' folks are missing some key issues. Yes, the "balance" in your minds is all over the place... but that's the same in any FPS type game. What blows goats as a new player is the absolute lack of knowledge available in-game or fairly reasonable about all of the garbage UI issues that make for a series of horrible matches.

I very nearly quit, myself, after 4 random matches in a row where I got (what I now know is) LRMd and RAC'd to death. I was running long, and next thing I knew my visible screen was functionally useless and shaking so much it was impossible to attack, and I had no idea why. I died not having a clue what the *@#% just happened. If PGI wants to keep people, the learning curve needs to be smoothed out a little.

Another suggestion would be to minimize the impact of skills on folks <25 games into their existence. I hadn't a clue just how critical that stuff was until days/weeks into playing. I didn't know because I didn't have the XP to unlock anything and the in-game tutorial is crap. In my opinion I am fortunate - I am both committed (I loved BattleTech as a kid and refuse to give up on giving this place a shot) and prosperous (I'm willing to buy my first 5 dozen mechs because it's amusing). Many others won't have the cards stacked so fully in PGI's favor

The grind is real and the resources to develop are scant. It's a rough game to get into. It's compounded by the fact that when the skill system was developed many of us vet players got out previous skill tree points 'converted', which has left us with thousands, even tens of thousands, of free skill points to spend on mechs. We never see the grind inherent in it unless we play an alt.

At one time we had a bunch of loyalist units who would find new players like you and help you get trained up. However when PGI functionally destroyed factions as anything but a forum tag they pretty much all quit. That's left nobody in place to help onboard new players and no impetus for anyone to do so.

Shoot me a friend invite and I'll happily help you out, a lot of us will. There's just no real system in game to help you get to the people who can help you. Can also PM me questions on the forums or whatever is easiest. This game has a training area and some basic stuff you can learn, the training grounds really were a huge improvement over the old system - which was nothing. You just dropped into a match. Also there was no matchmaker so you would drop your first match in a game with players all along the skill spectrum. What we have now is way better but it's still thin compared to what all you have to learn.

The reality is that you probably have 6 months or more before you really even learn what questions to ask about the stuff you don't even know that you don't know yet. There are self-flagellating orders of monks who would look at trying to get into MWO and wince and wonder WTF is wrong with us.

[Deathlike]

New players quit because of PGI.

What PGI is really to be blamed for?:

Not enough useful tutorials, particularly for FP/CW
Minimally viable improvements to things like FP/CW that truly needs fixing (not just the AI on Escort that breaks upon being dropped on its head)
Super grind for the new players
Poor MM (PSR is massively flawed for too many reasons, one of which is it's considered an XP bar even those that aren't even at a 1 W-L ratio)
Poor balance (which has been an issue since day 1, and not fixable due to the intelligence/stats used/understanding)
Poor Social functionality (LFG could be significantly better)
Not providing enough maps over time (only gotten 1 map in 2017...)
...and much more!

What PGI is not to be blamed for?:

Uh, I guess it's only people that want to do their own thing and/or people that don't want to learn to play the game properly (and/or learn the mechanics of things in the game).

So, there's a lot to be fixed, and PGI is certainly not going to fix any of them anytime soon™.

[Merle]

Quote

Shoot me a friend invite and I'll happily help you out, a lot of us will. There's just no real system in game to help you get to the people who can help you. Can also PM me questions on the forums or whatever is easiest. This game has a training area and some basic stuff you can learn, the training grounds really were a huge improvement over the old system - which was nothing. You just dropped into a match. Also there was no matchmaker so you would drop your first match in a game with players all along the skill spectrum. What we have now is way better but it's still thin compared to what all you have to learn.

I'll take you up on that, at least with the friend invite for now. I'm no spring chicken, the general mechanics seem pretty normal to me (as somebody that's been playing video games for 30 years or so).... it's just the 4,000 nuances that I'm in the dark on. The "meta" so to speak. I can read the stats on the mechlab screen, but that doesn't mean it plays the same way or impacts gameplay the way I might suspect. Almost all of my questions are for folks that have been playing for months/years, and really undersatnd all the little quirks of the game (and not necessarily the mech "quirks" I've read about). I just joined a unit that is very supportive a casual player like myself (Golden Foxes), and seems to have a number of experienced players happy to help out.