99 replies to this topic

[Quinn Allard]

Is it just me or does the majority of people in this community BT people? Because there are MechWarrior players that are unfarmiliar with BT and the TT game. Lots of "I love the KC 34C" and "lets not forget the TRO 3025". While I love anything MechWarrior, I think BattleTech people need to bring it down a notch and put things in Layman Terms for those of us who havnt read all the TROs and dont know anything about the TableTop Game and not much about BattleTech lore and such. I'm sure there are lots of people out there like me, who've played EVERY Mech PC game, but still feel like a ****** when I am trying to join in on some conversations. Just be considerate of the community



PS I have read a few BT novels and such, but please try to see what I'm trying to say.
PSS I wonder if the Devs are going to lean towards all-out BT and TT (Since Weisman is involved), or going to bring back the magic of MechWarrior 2.

[Bendajo]

Batlletech led to the creation of Mechwarrior if you love it so much do some research.

[Quinn Allard]

Bendajo, on 01 December 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

Batlletech led to the creation of Mechwarrior if you love it so much do some research.

I know that. Im trying to say not everyone knows what a "KC 34C" is or what "TRO 3025" means. Simplify. BT fanboys are the 5%, MechWarrior fanboys are the 25%, and brand-new-never-played-anything-MechWarrior players will be the 70% with MWO. You dont want to scare away patential players with all the leet-talk or tech-talk or whatever.

[Kudzu]

Quinn Allard, on 01 December 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

Is it just me or does the majority of people in this community BT people? Because there are MechWarrior players that are unfarmiliar with BT and the TT game. Lots of "I love the KC 34C" and "lets not forget the TRO 3025". While I love anything MechWarrior, I think BattleTech people need to bring it down a notch and put things in Layman Terms for those of us who havnt read all the TROs and dont know anything about the TableTop Game and not much about BattleTech lore and such. I'm sure there are lots of people out there like me, who've played EVERY Mech PC game, but still feel like a ****** when I am trying to join in on some conversations. Just be considerate of the community



PS I have read a few BT novels and such, but please try to see what I'm trying to say.
PSS I wonder if the Devs are going to lean towards all-out BT and TT (Since Weisman is involved), or going to bring back the magic of MechWarrior 2.

Save this link, use it when you want to learn what people are talking about.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

[Raeven]

We've got to get our fix in before the "realists" show up to demand their changes to the game. I have no idea what a KC 34C is!

[Alistair Steiner]

I'm a MechWarrior player through and through, and the closest I came to BattleTech was Neveron, which did all of the calculations and dice rolls for you. If someone sat me down in front of a TT map and handed me a small lance or whatever, I'd be completely lost. But I want to connect with what started the whole franchise. I want to have a group of friends who have a small army of lovingly-painted miniatures. But I don't have the people, nor the resources, nor the knowledge of where to find either. So if the devs can make this a BattleTech game under the hood, with all the visuals and real-time aspects of MechWarrior, then I will be a happy pilot.

They've said in the FAQ that they wanted to try and move the franchise back towards the TT, but modify the aspects that wouldn't work well in a real-time simulation. MechWarrior is a simulation, and that's what I want. If we're adding TT rules to make it even closer to the origin of the franchise, then I'll trust the devs to do what's right. Plus, if we don't like it, it's not like we're dropping $60vat the start to get a game we know nothing about.

EDIT:

Quote

I have no idea what a KC 34C is!

King Crab? Variant C? That's all I've got. Maybe designed in '34? How am I doing, TT guys?

Edited by Alistair Steiner, 01 December 2011 - 12:40 PM.

[Quinn Allard]

Raeven, on 01 December 2011 - 12:34 PM, said:

We've got to get our fix in before the "realists" show up to demand their changes to the game. I have no idea what a KC 34C is!

I can understand that, and I made up KC 34C. Ive seen some posts with stuff like that, and I assume its the mech and loadout designation....but i could be wrong....

EDIT:
Alistair: I agree with you, and thats how I feel too. I am just trying to say that there are gobs of players that will know Mechwarrior, but dont even know what BT is or that there ever was a TT game! I worked as an assistant manager for GameStop for 2 years and talked about MechWarrior all the time. I noticed I would say something to a customer or associate like "in battletech bla bla bla" and its crickets....so I have to explain what BT is and they say "you mean MechWarrior?" *facepalm* Ive got a box somewhere in my office with 30 miniatures and tons of cards that never got played with because I couldnt find ANYONE to play the TT game with....despite having gobs of Warhammer 40k players.

Edited by Quinn Allard, 01 December 2011 - 12:45 PM.

[Creel]

Quinn Allard, on 01 December 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

PSS I wonder if the Devs are going to lean towards all-out BT and TT (Since Weisman is involved), or going to bring back the magic of MechWarrior 2.

Mechwarrior II, allowing for the technological limits of the time, was pure TT under the hood.

[Black Sunder]

This will get locked by tomorrow.....

[Garth Erlam]

Bendajo, on 01 December 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

Batlletech led to the creation of Mechwarrior if you love it so much do some research.

Keep in mind this is a MechWarrior Online forum, not a BattleTech forum.

Also, someone is asking for clarification, not decrying BattleTech.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i played the TT, and all the computer/ console games. and I still raise and eye brow to the designations. best advice is to use this webpage. http://www.sarna.net...ory:BattleMechs

that should hopefully list the designation the person is talking about. and if you dont understand everything about a particular mech, dont worry about it. all you need to know is to guesstimate the tonnage of the enemy mech, prioritize its weapon systems, and pull the trigger on it to be successful.

[Mezzanine]

I think I get what Quinn is trying to say here, and as someone who's dabbled in BT, MW, novels, and figurines, I completely agree with him.

There's nothing wrong with loving BattleTech (in fact, that's awesome), but his breakdown of the community is going to be just about spot on at launch.

These forums right now are full of the "Old Guard" and rightly so, but if we can't do a bit of work to educate people, and use less jargon-heavy language, it can drive people away, and that's the last thing we'll want to see this community succeed.

Snarky comments to "look it up" or smack-talking people that don't place BT on a pedestal isn't going to do any of us any favors.

It seems to me that what Quinn's asking for is that we cool down the elitism a few notches and try and remember the joy it can be to introduce someone to something you love. Just bear in mind that not everyone here is a diehard tabletop fan, not everyone needs to become a diehard tabletop fan, and with a little tender love and care, anyone here can become a diehard tabletop fan.

Now wouldn't that be nice?

[StriplingWarrior]

Having played at least some of Mechwarrior, Battletech, City Tech, Battlespace Mechwarrior(pc), Mechwarrior II, and a couple other non Activision related Mechwarrior games. I understand some of the tech things they are saying. I have some reference material from the TT game, I saw a game of Aerospace(or was it Aerotech?) once. I am hoping for something that will roll the gameplay of the Mechwarrior II in with the strategy of the TT and maybe a dash of RPG for fun. The possibilities are huge. I am with the OP. Please be nice to those of us who have lost our way and drifted into Heavy Gear or Warhammer. We are here because we love Mechwarrior too.

Edited by StriplingWarrior, 01 December 2011 - 01:28 PM.

[CeeKay Boques]

I would take one side of the TT players, they/we seemed to be afraid of developers/fellow players not understanding that this is a a full universe. They are afraid of another MechAssault, which was a scary deviation from both MW and BT, and are trying to steer it back towards the cool universe we all love. Though, with everything the Devs have presented, how they could still be waggling their finger I wouldn't know. MWO seems to be COMPLETELY on track to me with incredible potential.

Stereotyping makes life easy! 4 types:

Battletech players that didn't like ANY of the MechWarriors, and thought they all stunk. I cannot picture in my mind what these guys are looking for in a video game, and how they think that this game will redeem the series and become ... whatever it is they think its going to be. I cannot picture this Mechcommander, Mechwarrior, Megamek hybrid game. This forum for them is an extension of classicbattletech.com, Battletech the Video game. Same discussions happen here as happen there, regardless of the fact that Mechwarrior has, and always will have, an adapted ruleset for use in real time 3d battles. They understand this, but want to shove as many canon rules into a 100 ton chassis as possible. You might say something as in "I hope you can jump over buildings" to which you receive a dissertation on the jump jet to tonnage ratio and the hex/meters that they can travel. They are afraid they will get Mechassault 3 or QuakeWarrior, so they fight for the rules that they know put a stop to that kind of play. They were here first, playing this complex, deep, intelligent game 25 years ago before you whippersnappers showed up, get yer jumpsnipin' off my lawn!

Mechwarriors who dont' play or enjoy Battletech: They know the other Mechwarriors rocked, and some of the lore, and want more of the same, along with all the glaring oversights fixed, they have various wants and needs from firing weapon types and graphics. They're not really interested in what company made the cannon on their MadCat, or the how far the Banshee has come since 3025. That's cool for them lorehounds. What these guys are afraid of is that their beloved Mechwarrior will end up a hexbased board game, slow and unweidly, possibly unfun. What they don't know is that the Battltech ruleset and universe is very deep and awesome and will help flesh out this game in many ways.

Mecha/Gaming Fans: They like Mechwarrior, Battletech, Steel Battallion, excited about Hawken... if its got stompy robots, they have their opinions on what they like, but they want it to be an awesome whatever it is. This is a trusting, wait and see approach with the devs. They love a little about it all. Boardgame, computer game, roleplaying, all good, more games is better.

Video Gamers: "I love video games. This looks like its going to be a great one, here's what I like in video games:."...or the negative: "Video games should be like this, I know video games!"

Subsets: Rule lawyers, Simulation junkies, "I thought mechassault was awesome", role players, lore hounds....

Don't be afraid, its gonna be great! Fear is the path to the dark side.

[Kudzu]

Mezzanine, on 01 December 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

I think I get what Quinn is trying to say here, and as someone who's dabbled in BT, MW, novels, and figurines, I completely agree with him.

There's nothing wrong with loving BattleTech (in fact, that's awesome), but his breakdown of the community is going to be just about spot on at launch.

These forums right now are full of the "Old Guard" and rightly so, but if we can't do a bit of work to educate people, and use less jargon-heavy language, it can drive people away, and that's the last thing we'll want to see this community succeed.

Snarky comments to "look it up" or smack-talking people that don't place BT on a pedestal isn't going to do any of us any favors.

It seems to me that what Quinn's asking for is that we cool down the elitism a few notches and try and remember the joy it can be to introduce someone to something you love. Just bear in mind that not everyone here is a diehard tabletop fan, not everyone needs to become a diehard tabletop fan, and with a little tender love and care, anyone here can become a diehard tabletop fan.

Now wouldn't that be nice?

Giving someone access to a treasure trove of information about a subject that they're interested in is not "being snarky and elitist", it's not like the "old guard" were born with full knowledge of the entire BTU and we hoard it's secrets for power.

Sarna.net is an amazing resource that is easily capable of answering 99% of the questions that someone who is not familiar with the setting might ask. Not sure what a Phoenix Hawk is? Copy/paste the name into the search bar at the wiki and you'll get a breakdown of all it's various incarnations. Never heard of the FRR? Plug in the acronym and it takes your straight to the Free Rasalhague Republic page with the history of the nation.

[verybad]

I'm part of the "old guard" I know most of those mech variants, and the difference between one companies medium lasers and anothers. However Ido agree that it's a bit overwhelming to somebody just coming into the game, or not familiar with it. In addition, telling them to go research something when they're trying to be part of a conversation about MECHWARRIOR, not BATTLETECH. Is somewhat unwelcoming.

We've the minority here, so if we're going to talk shop, it's only fair if we try and describe what we're talking about rather than tell them to essentially take off and come back when they know something.

[Kudzu]

verybad, on 01 December 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

I'm part of the "old guard" I know most of those mech variants, and the difference between one companies medium lasers and anothers. However Ido agree that it's a bit overwhelming to somebody just coming into the game, or not familiar with it. In addition, telling them to go research something when they're trying to be part of a conversation about MECHWARRIOR, not BATTLETECH. Is somewhat unwelcoming.

We've the minority here, so if we're going to talk shop, it's only fair if we try and describe what we're talking about rather than tell them to essentially take off and come back when they know something.

And where do you draw the line at what should be common knowledge about the setting? Do I need to break down an explain everything in every single post?

"The SHD-2H (Shadow Hawk (a 55 ton (medium weight) battlemech (anthropomorphic armored combat vehicle powered by a fusion engine) armed with an AC/5 (autocannon class 5), medium laser (mid sized light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation weapon), LRM 5 (long range missile system shooting 5 rounds in one volley), and SRM 2 (short ranged missile system firing 2 missiles with each volley) with decent speed and armor for it's weight class) is not a very good mech (short for battlemech)."

Get's a little cumbersome, doesn't it?

Or I can say "The SHD-2H is not a very good mech." and if someone doesn't know what that means they can plug it into the Sarna search and see all the information about it, along with pictures and links to other terms they might not understand.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page look them up

[simon1812]

ok according to Technoviking classificacion i would be between the Mechwarriors and the Mecha fans thing, as for the BT board game i have only heard about it to the point it is almost legendary to me, the most complicated tabletop game i ever played is risk and risk isnt really complicated.

just out of curiosity is there digital version version of BT tabbletop? I mean you can find risk's digital version of the game so just wondering.

[GrimJim]

Ppl just have to regard this like reboots of Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica. Enough depth and winks for die-hards over 30 (myself included) who get the canon nods, and blank slate enough for newcomers not to be overwhelmed by 25 + years of history.

So far the devs have catered to both quite well.