77 replies to this topic

[Tom Sawyer]

Call for resupply module. Creates a drop that paradrops a cargo container and re-arm bot. Takes 10 to 20 seconds to rearm and can be destroyed so chose your drop location wisely.

This will also cut down on the arty and air strikes.

[FatYak]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

I like everything in that except for rearm.
IS ballistics are the ONLY PPD/FLD weapon in the game. That means they have a very distinct advantage over every other weapon in the game. Taking away the single most important trade=off/drawback to that weapon simply because "I ran out of ammo and didn't bring a more balanced build" is a ridiculous idea in my opinion

Thats fine if you match is 10 minutes long and theres 12 mechs to deal with. But at 30 mins and 48, its just stupid, Your greatest strength is FLD weapons and for IS but the fact they are ammo dependent makes them a bigger liability then ever before, because your energy weapons in comparison suck to clan and are pretty crap as backup weapons

Edited by Verapamil, 14 December 2014 - 05:03 AM.

[Sandpit]

Verapamil, on 14 December 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

Thats fine if you match is 10 minutes long and theres 12 mechs to deal with. But at 30 mins and 48, its just stupid, Your greatest strength is FLD weapons and for IS but the fact they are ammo dependent makes them a bigger liability then ever before, because your energy weapons in comparison suck to clan and are pretty crap as backup weapons

No players who don't conserve ammo and/or build balanced mechs are a liability. The flaw lies in the player, not the game

[Sybreed]

Victor Morson, on 12 December 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

I can't endorse this strongly enough.

The way it is now, if you take a 'mech that is centered around ammunition fed weapons - even if you're carrying some additional guns - your best bet is to eject the second that counter hits 0 and get a new 'mech, otherwise you're just a walking armor sink that's not doing anything effective. God help you if you don't have backup weapons (Twin Gauss mechs, for example).

Rearming is a must, if you have the chance to live through 5 waves.

While I am for re-arm bays as well, I think the reason why most battlemechs have back-up energy weapons is, well, to be still fight capable after they exhausted their ammo. MWO unfortunately doesn't promote this type of gameplay.

[lsp]

Khobai, on 13 December 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

if you allow reloading, then ballistics are flat out superior to energy again

right now theres a good balance in CW

RIght now every build is pew pew, LAZORS.

[lsp]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

Building a mech that isn't combat effective and can't do anything but stand around while the pilot picks his nose but should be allowed to have some sort of magical device that ships ammo, stops in mid-battle on the battlefield, shuts down in the middle of a firefight, and has technicians deliver and reload your mech because the players decided to put together a poor build (defined because if you can't fight, then yea, that's poor build) is realistic?

Because you see tanks on modern fields of battle leave the fight in the middle of a warzone battle so they can reload right? That's pretty realistic.
You don't? Hmmm maybe that's because THEY are smart enough to carry enough ammo for their operations.

It's called supply lines, and yes actually, believe it or not front line units have to be resupplied. They don't just abandon their vehicles when they get low on ammunition. They RTB and refit. (fobs get it choppered in, etc) That would actually be a cool thing to add to CW, supply lines. And the ability to cut them, then the planet with the lines cut is cut off from resupply or reinforcement.
PS, CW is not hardcore. funneling through two gates takes no strategy and is in no way hardcore gameplay. This game is still team deathmatch in robots. Ever play Arma? It's the civilan version of VBS which the U.S. Army uses for training. That's what "hardcore" gameplay is, or EVE Online. You have to actually be able to read a map and know tactical manuevers, like an L shape ambush. And unit formations, like the wedge or line, staggered column etc. This game will never be "hardcore" everthing about it is casual.

Edited by lsp, 14 December 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[Sandpit]

lsp, on 14 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

RIght now every build is pew pew, LAZORS.

all of the guys who run ballistics and LRMs and DON'T run out constantly that I drop with would disagree with you.

So would the opponents I see rocking me with those same weapons

[The Dancing Joker]

Energy weapons pay for their balance with heat sinks. Ammo weapons pay for their balance with limited ammo. Adding ammo drops would throw off the last 3 years of "balancing." Cannot stress how bad an idea ammo drops is.

TT did allow for rearming. It requires the 'mech to hold still while ammo is fed into the holding bins. IIRC this is 10 minutes +/- skill roll of the attending tech. Just does not fit the scope of MWO.

[Sandpit]

lsp, on 14 December 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

It's called supply lines, and yes actually, believe it or not front line units have to be resuplied. They don't just abandon their vehicles when they get low on ammunition. They RTB and refit.

first, attackers don't have a base to return to. They're dropped into the battle via big spaceship
If you want supply lines then you need an actual economy, repair fees, all that good stuff that goes along with it. Now if you want to talk about adding all that in, then we can talk about repairs mid-battle.

That also includes ways for enemy forces to disrupt those supply lines by taking strategic planets and such as well.

[The Dancing Joker]

lsp, on 14 December 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

It's called supply lines, and yes actually, believe it or not front line units have to be resupplied. They don't just abandon their vehicles when they get low on ammunition. They RTB and refit. That would actually be a cool thing to add to CW, supply lines. And the ability to cut them, then the planet with the lines cut is cut off from resupply or reinforcement.

Agreed. I would love to see campaigns in MWO. Many of the TT scenarios even allowed for supplylines being cut. This usually took the shape of 'mechs dropping with ammo bins only half full. Several of the Tukkayid campaign scenarios were written this way.

However for single drop purposes? No. This is not an FPS shoot and scoot game. Picking up health packets, ammo clips, etc.
This is a thinking persons shooter. Where you design a good 'mech capable of carrying out your intended mission.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alistair Winter, on 13 December 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

People with a desire to change any aspect of the game in any way what so ever should express their desire on the forum and leave it to PGI to weigh the demands of the consumers with their own artistic vision.

I support this without supporting the desire to add rearming to the game.

[Grrzoot]

I'm not really going to respond to specific points on this , except to say, it is just an idea a though based on the fact that all the first years of balance etc was based on the 15 minute game mode and now we have 30 minutes. Yes we now have 4 mechs, so the whole thing isn't that big of a deal to me, if i really want to run my dual guass jaeger that is completely maxed on ammo/weap/engine i realize that about halfway through of the match if i am alive i should just put another one in the mech hanger as i will run out of ammo, if i don't i am not helping my team.
This was just a hey, i had this thought, what do you guys think, yes/no reasons. type thread to have a discussion about it. I personally will adjust with the game as I have been, and as everyone will too.
In a 15 minute match i felt no discrepancy versus another team, but now that each enemy player has 4 mechs it felt a bit imbalanced to me vs a 30pt alpha (or higher) with lasers vs dual guass over the course of the game.

"[color=#959595]People with a desire to change any aspect of the game in any way what so ever should express their desire on the forum and leave it to PGI to weigh the demands of the consumers with their own artistic vision.[/color][color=#959595] [/color]

Thank you allistair. This is what i wanted to see, it would be nice to just see yes no , my reasons posts without people getting around to attacking other people's opinions, It won't change them.

[Thunder Child]

Actually. I like this idea. Having thought about it considerably, how it would work is that you allocate ammo to the Base/Dropships/Destructible Reload Thingie in your deployment zone, BEFORE the match starts. How much you allocate, will affect how much you have available during the match. It takes 'x' seconds to reload (x being a number between 30-600).

Now, here's the catch. The ammo that is allocated to the match is removed from your inventory. Win or Lose, that ammo is GONE. So, take 3 tons on your mech, and 7 in your stash? That's 7 tons of ammo that you'll have in CW costs. Run 7 tons in your mech, and take 3 in your stash? Only three tons worth of reload costs. Just an idea.

Edit: And FYI, I have a Super Stock HBK-4G that works fine in CW, with an AC20, and three medium Lasers. It has 35 shots, which is enough to last me till it's wrecked. I sacrificed Speed for the ammo.

Edited by Thunder Child, 14 December 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[Sandpit]

Thunder Child, on 14 December 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

I sacrificed Speed for the ammo.

Which is exactly why rearms shouldn't be allowed. With unlimited ammo mode, you wouldn't have had to sacrifice anything for that ammo.

[Thunder Child]

Ah, but that assumes I want to pay CW Rearm fees. I personally like my Sloback. No-one expects it! Make it so people have a choice. Take extra ammo, which requires them to RtB, potentially costing them the match, then have to powerdown and wait for 5 mins to reload, then get back to the front, and additionally, they have to pay, I dunno, maybe twice the normal ammo cost? Five times if they have broken supply lines?

Put simply, I am all for the idea, provided there is a decent punishment for doing so. This ain't Call of Mech. So sure, bring your own personal stockpile of ammo. That'll be 50,000 cbills in Postage and Handling.

[Sandpit]

Thunder Child, on 14 December 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Ah, but that assumes I want to pay CW Rearm fees. I personally like my Sloback.

I'm all for rearm fees also. Along with repair fees, supply lines, a full economy, etc.

If PGI implements all of that and all of the drawbacks that go along with that and starts implementing consequences for ammo spam in cost to rearm, stuff like that. Then I'd be all for rearming by walking all the way back to the drop ship point, paying for rearm fees, taking 5 minutes to rearm, etc.

Dropping a magical rearm package or rearm bay on the map to provide unlimited ammo mode? No thanks.

[Thunder Child]

Also, you could take it out of their dropweight. You want how many tons of spare ammo for your Gausscat? 10? Well, you now have 230 tons to drop with. Of course, that doesn't mean you'll get a chance to use it.

I'm the kind of douche that would run an 8 Splaserstar and specifically die, hunting down peoples ammo piles.

[Sandpit]

Thunder Child, on 14 December 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Also, you could take it out of their dropweight. You want how many tons of spare ammo for your Gausscat? 10? Well, you now have 230 tons to drop with. Of course, that doesn't mean you'll get a chance to use it.

I'm the kind of douche that would run an 8 Splaserstar and specifically die, hunting down peoples ammo piles.

That's not what the OP and most in this thread have been asking for though. Put in all the drawbacks as opposed to unlimited ammo mode and you've got the start of an actual economy which would be great IMO.

Again, not what the op wanted though. I could see your idea along with the drawbacks I mentioned workign and adding some flavor. Pay for the ammo up front and if you don't use it you lose it. Have it count against your drop weight in your deck. Stuff liek that. Also implement supply lines that can be cut if enemy forces take strategic planets. Stuff like taht and you've got a lot more in-depth strategy.