57 replies to this topic

[Infine]

Clan Warrior, on 27 June 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

I thought I said that 3 times already in my pervious posts here.

If it is made so that PPC is not gigantic tube like weapon that takes away original look of the Hunchback and makes it look like new type of mech then no.

If looks like proportional or similar to previous weapons then yes it can still look different but not ridiculously different.. As long as that mech resembles original Hunchback as much as possible then yes.

But you can not radically change the MWO hunchie even by MWO rules. That is, you can not radically change an arm view without actually removing lower/upper arm and hand actuators per build rules. And as far as we have seen, you can not remove them from a hunchie (or add them to the CPLT-K2 for that matter). And without removing them you can't have a rifleman arm on a hunchie, since the very thing that makes a hunchie arm and a rifleman arm look and act different is the lack of lower arm and hand actuators on the latter. With actuators being intact the only way you can stick a giant tube to a hunchie arm is to mount it on the side of the arm which is not much of a crime. On the other hand, there's an issue of AC/20 vs Gauss. Since gauss slugs flying out from a short barrel of a hunchie shoulder bulb do look sort of ridiculous.

[Terror Teddy]

Erwiin, on 26 June 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Swapping out weapons should change the look, but due to time/coding/FPS/etc restraints, it looks as if it won't be implemented. With me its a minor gripe, but not a big issue.

Well, hopefully they will have time to change module looks for large changes (Missile pod -->PPC) but exchanging a Hunchback (AC20 -->X3 AC5) might take up the same space so the barrels of the weapon(s) are hidden within the large shoulder module.

[Clan Warrior]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 27 June 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

I got kind of confused, didn't we see the default Catapult with the LRMs and another Catapult with PPCs on its "arms"?


http://pcmedia.games...5993509-000.jpg
http://pcmedia.games...5993582-000.jpg
http://pcmedia.games...5993564-000.jpg

Or do these changes appear only if you have said variant and not a completely custom mech?

One variant is Catapult CPLT-C1 which is an older variant, the other one is CPLT- K2 an upgraded variant that allows you to carry pair of PPC's.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 03:35 AM.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Clan Warrior, on 27 June 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

One variant is Catapult CPLT-C1 which is an older variant, the other one is CPLT- K2 an upgraded variant that allows you to carry pair of PPC's.

Yeah I know, but what I'm not clear on is if you choose C1 or K2 and you get the change, but if you get the C1 and customise it yourself into a K2, you don't.

I guess I have missed some mechlab posts...

[Voyager I]

You can't customize a C1 directly into a K2 because it's not equipped to mount energy weapons in its pods. They're essentially different mechs.

You could, using our mechlab, take a C1, strip out the medium lasers in the torso along for space along with most of the missiles for weight, and mount PPCs in the torso. As it stands currently, this would not look visually distinct from a stock C1 in any way...at least until it fired.

Edited by Voyager I, 27 June 2012 - 03:44 AM.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Thank you very much for the clear answer Voyager I.

[Clan Warrior]

Voyager I, on 27 June 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

You can't customize a C1 directly into a K2 because it's not equipped to mount energy weapons in its pods. They're essentially different mechs.

You could, using our mechlab, take a C1, strip out the medium lasers in the torso along for space along with most of the missiles for weight, and mount PPCs in the torso. As it stands currently, this would not look visually distinct from a stock C1 in any way...at least until it fired.

Yeah but that would defeat the whole purpose of variants wouldn't it? I mean in this case you have K2 variant that do just that. With variants at least for now on the IS side this makes for more interesting combat. Players need to choose what type of mech and variant to use and how far they can customize that particular mech.

I'm asking this because you're calling me a troll and for the whole time in this topic I'm trying to say that variants can do that. That there is no need in general to alter physical appearance of your prime mech.

BT got it covered for the most part. All you have to do is buy new variant and stick different weapons in it and make more configurations. I understand that in some instances there maybe need to tweak this and allow to change appearance but for the most part players going to stick to new variants and make new configs.

Basically variant is like the blueprint on how far you can go and customize your given mech.

PS. I wish you could read my posts with regard to this topic rather than just jump to unpleasant conclusion and calling me names.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 04:29 AM.

[GHQCommander]

Clan Warrior, on 26 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

This is how it works in BT Universe. To make a long story short, you just use compatible space to install your weapons and other mods. The outside look doesn't change. But weapons like missiles or ballistics will fire from that particular place. You can't install ballistics into missiles and vice verse. Outside look never changes.

Outside look is just like a box to which you put or install weapons systems, mods, etc. Changes happen on the inside that we don't see on the outside. So visually things remain the same outside each mech.

This is like you upgrade or install better engine inside your car. As long as that engine is going to fit inside your car you can do it. Car still looks the same on the outside but you have better engine inside your car.

Things work similar in BT Universe when equipping your mech. If it fits you can install it

Of course we have rules for installing weapons, etc, and it is more complicated than that, we have omnitech, omnimechs, we have different circa techs, weapons, mods. But as soon as new tech arrives mechs get upgrade like having new variants that let you again install new tech and weapons.

The developers will do plenty in this game that has not been or is not usually done in the BT Universe. This is whole different game and a whole new experience. This game will deliver Battletach/Mechwarrior to a generation who have not paid much attention to it.

There is no way the developers will not do new things or change how some things have been done before if it will please the current generation of kids.

They will want to see a lot of external changes when changing weapons, damage and custom paint jobs. I'll bet any money it is already on the to do list for 2013.

[Clan Warrior]

GHQCommander, on 27 June 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

The developers will do plenty in this game that has not been or is not usually done in the BT Universe. This is whole different game and a whole new experience. This game will deliver Battletach/Mechwarrior to a generation who have not paid much attention to it.

There is no way the developers will not do new things or change how some things have been done before if it will please the current generation of kids.

They will want to see a lot of external changes when changing weapons, damage and custom paint jobs. I'll bet any money it is already on the to do list for 2013.

I agree, hope they can deliver this so that an old BT fanatics such as me can still enjoy it

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 05:02 AM.

[Voyager I]

This is what an Awesome looks like with a PPC in its arm.

Am I supposed to believe that that a Hunchback with PPCs in place of its medium lasers (yes, you can do that with the mechlab) will still look like that?


Technical limitations I can understand. Trying to make our mech's appearances change dynamically with their weapons loadouts could potentially be very difficult. Living Legends pulled it off, but they don't make it look good enough for a commercial product. However, the entire reason that mech variants have different looks is to reflect that they have different weapons. The appearance of every mech we've been shown has been dictated by their loadout. It stands to reason, then, that a changed armament should lead to a changed image. This is both for the sake of internal consistency within the setting (A PPC should look like a PPC and not like a medium laser), and also for the sake of gameplay. If I get a good look at someone carrying heavy weapons, I should be able to recognize that they're carrying heavy weapons.

Edited by Voyager I, 27 June 2012 - 05:19 AM.

[mastergenera1]

I hope the devs bring in graphics that change the mech loadout visually,as others have said it would be ridiculous looking to have a heavy weapon firing out visually of a medium weapon hardpoint.That other armored warfare mmo does just fine in this respect.clan warriors musings is the same as in the other mmo as saying i want a ferdinand with an 88L/71 to look visually the same as a ferdinand with a 128L/55.in otherwords that is retarded,this is a videogame not the TT when it comes to visuals,i see why it doesnt happen there(cant modify the models)but here you should and can if the devs make it so.

[The Vogfather]

i have been happy with how the game looks so far.. so what if it doesn't 100% match what weapons they carry? are you suggesting that they keep people from doing things like that just because it wouldn't fit into the mechs design? being able to set my load out the way i want to > aesthetics any day.

besides your dealing with copyrighted material remember that. so there is a limit on how much they can alter it.

Edited by The Vogfather, 27 June 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Voyager I]

We're not suggesting they limit customization to match visuals, but rather wondering if they'll be able to have visuals match our loadout choices.

[Valatar]

Actually, I would suggest to limit customization to fit the visuals. There's a reason that omnimechs are a big deal when they show up, and it's because that level of customization is simply not possible for standard mechs. Given that your average inner sphere mech is a century or two old, and people are a little iffy on how they work, much less how to make them from scratch, you don't see people saying, "Welp, let's go rip out a pile of medium lasers and shove in a PPC to see what happens!"

Well, okay, you do see that, but customizing a mech and having it still be functional afterwards is a big enough deal that such modifications are mentioned by name in the tech readouts. It's expensive and rare. The degree of mech customization allowed in MWO is much more akin to what you'd see for an omnimech than a standard mech, and lends itself to people making boats, which is just terrible for gameplay in general.

[Eximar]

Never seen anyone work so hard at being wrong.

[Akula]

Gentlemen.

The Crusher Super Heavy Cannon is 150mm.

The Chemjet Gun is 185mm.

Both are of these are AC/20's.


The largest AC/20 is 203mm in calibre. So

Different manufacturers and models of autocannons have different calibres rates of fire. Keep this in mind when you're talking about the size of the muzzle on say... a Hunchback.

Edited by Skringly, 27 June 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[CancersCincar]

Considering that MWO is only in it's beta stages, it's highly unlikely that any sort of customization like this will be added until, possibly, the open beta on August 7th. Core gameplay and balancing is far more important than minor appearance changes. I, personally, won't keep my hopes up for it happening just because of how complex it'd be. There'd be crazy amounts of models for each 'Mech and it's variants if whenever you added a MG or laser to the 'Mech, or on the flip side, removed one, it added a part to it or removed it, respectively. For simplicity's sake, it will probably stay as is until later in development.
Something to note is that while the Hunchback's AC/20 shoulder mount has a large hole in it, it doesn't mean other things can't be mounted inside of it. AC/2s and AC/5s, even an AC/10 or two could be mounted in it, firing through the hole. While it might be considered a waste in terms of designs (it'd probably leave a lot of open space), it's still workable. Just keep in mind that MWO is still in the beta stages, and with that said, many features haven't been added yet.
If you (the OP) really want difference in 'Mech appearance, take a look at variants. The Catapult-K2 has already been shown to have a different model than the Catapult-C1, because using an LRM rack to represent PPCs or lasers it might mount is very silly! It doesn't change when you add different weapon types because, as I mentioned before, the amount of models for one variant would be really high.

TL;DR
Don't keep your hopes up about seeing this in the beta, but once the game is released officially, they may add it in, however, that will probably be some time down the road. Custom appearances are already here though, shown through variants, just not on the small scale that the OP wants.

Edited by CancersCincar, 27 June 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[Clan Warrior]

In BT and with regard to IS mechs your outside visuals for particular mech will come with new variants that is how it works in the Inner Sphere with pre omnimechs. Also remember that creating configuration, you're downgrading not upgrading from original setup or replacing for the same dps but different weapon type. So that means if you have 1 large laser and you want to replace it with 2 or 3 mediums those 2 or 3 mediums technically should fit in to that large tube where that large laser was. If the devs have the need to add minor visuals on some mechs to reflect configurations made by players it is up to them. I don't see the need for it. As each mech variant was already designed to carry all possible configuration and more or less visually express it.

Factory creates variants to upgrade their stock prime mechs. Similar to real life tank upgrades.

The devs will give us new visuals that come with new variants a good example is Catapult CPLT-K2 that comes with 2 PPCs.

Not all IS mechs of the same class will have the ability to install weapons like PPC, Guass etc. only mechs with variants that allow them to install it can do that.

Modifying stock variants will not give you more total dps other than what your stock variant comes with. You can switch some weapons for other types like laser based for ballistic and vice verse. But you won't be able to magically outperform 100% total stock dps of your original variant. On one mission you may need to remove LRMs and add few lasers or 1 AC etc. depending on your mission or your game play but the total dps will never increase should never increase.

New variants will add more dps, some visual changes if needed and new options to customize weapons. On a Hunchback HBK-4G making new config AC20 should only be downgraded not upgraded with more powerful weapons. So you go from AC20 down to AC10, 2 or machineguns. You will never be able to install 2 AC20's or even gauss rifle. There is prototype version of Hunchback that can have Guass but not HBK-4G. You could replace 1 large laser for 3 medium laser or perhaps remove AC20 and all other weapons and install 2 or 3 large lasers or 6 medium lasers? That might be possible. But you can't stick 2 PPC on a Hunchback that is ridicules.

Even if it was possible to install 2 PPC on a Hunchback how silly would that mech look. Having 2 gigantic pipes sticking from its middle torso or on each 2 hands it would break them off. As far as I know there is no Hunchback variant in BT that can have even 1 PPC installed not even a prototype.

Even playing arcade MW4 Mercenaries you couldn't install PPCs on a Hunchback or IIC.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 10:15 PM.