118 replies to this topic

[Psydotek]

Kudzu, on 22 November 2011 - 10:12 PM, said:

Eject?

Even after you've ejected. Your lifeless 'mech is still laying there on the field. Unless they make it so your 'mech is no longer able to be damaged after being "killed" thus preserving it's condition for whoever gets to repair/salvage it...

Then there's the issue of who gets to salvage your disabled mech... Does your opponent get the salvage? Do they only get salvage if they have a decisive victory but not a pyrrhic one? What if your lance makes a successful retreat? So many questions...

Edited by Psydotek, 22 November 2011 - 10:20 PM.

[Haeso]

In any objective based gameplay respawns should either not exist or be limited: IE a limited number of dropships with reinforcements for all the dead players (Perhaps limited by weight), so respawning is still strategic, not just zerging.

It's 8v8, one side is defending the other attacking, the defenders only have one dropship available for the scenario and lose two mechs without managing to bring down any attackers, do they use the dropship and bring themselves back to full strength fast or try and stall to get more out of the dropship but risk losing in the mean time etc.

As long as respawning fits within battletech as a means of REINFORCEMENT and not just idiotic free respawns, I'm for it. It has to be limited, it has to be strategic. But if it doesn't fit those criteria, no. As a tactical choice it could add a lot to the game, but it could also just wash away any sense of loss and consequence for death and just ruin the feel of the game if done wrong. It has merits in general, but it must be done right or not at all.


On another note of ejecting as someone brought up: When was the last Battle tech game that actually rewarded ejecting? I'd love to see some sort of experience hit or weakened state on your next fight if your mech goes critical before you eject, it should be a tough choice to stick it out and fight to the end or eject and fight again another day, not how it has been in the past where there has NEVER been a point in ejecting.

Edited by Haeso, 22 November 2011 - 10:26 PM.

[Anval Gato]

Respawns are really down to the style of game.
With an MMO you have that continuity of play hence why all the fantasy MMOs have a respawn.
Different games do it in different ways and effectively you could apply one of these to a game like Battletech.
But lets not confuse the way an MMO handles the respawns compared to an Action FPS or an Action RPG.

In an MMO you typically appear at some waypoint or location that thematically fits in with the game and then make your way back to where you were. There is usually a penalty of some sort.

In an Action game, you tend to click the button and get straight back into it without any penalty.

In both game types there is usually an instant option to respawn if you have support of another player that is capable of doing so.

MWO is going to need to hover the line a little as if it wants to fill the MMO niche it's going to be much bigger than just mech combat, but it's also an action game where the primary purpose of the genre is to blast away at the enemy in warfare.

If the game boils down to a Mechwarrior version of Battlefield 2 or Call of Duty, then the dynamic is quite different and there is less of a feel of mortality or any sense of loss.

Interestingly enough, both could be done if training and virtual battles were possible within the game in addition to the real battles.

If there's no permanent death of a character, then one way or another you have respawning.
If you have character progression and improvement over time (More than just some ranks and medals) then having permanent death is not a great option.
If your character can't actually get injured then the game system looks much more like a revamped BF2.
I would expect that in this scenario, after the mech is destroyed, there's a nice little ejection sequence and you return to a staging room where you have options to repair your mech with what money you might have, make changes and then say your ready to launch and jump into another battle. I imagine the battles would be closed once started unless there is some re-inforcement option, so you'd either wait for it to restart and join again, or join a different battle.
This isn't an MMO.

If the game was to truely take on a fully fledged MMO the game must be more than just 'Play in the mech lab, join a battle, check out my stats.'
The game would need to delve beyond just Mechwarrior and embrace the whole Battletech universe. It is, after all, a pretty cool place.
Far to much to discuss it all here.

[Yeach]

If you have a save button I would be okay with no respawn.
Oh wait this isn't a single player game.

[chewie]

W T F !

In no mech game, both mechwarrior or MPBT has there been an opportunity to respawn.

Once yer dead, you go into ghost mode and watch the battle or you go back to the drop bay / hangar whatever you wanna call it.

The end. No discussion required. No poll required.

An mmo this may be, but wow it will not be.

Please stop throwing spanners into the works, and let pgi get on with it.

Edited by chewie, 23 November 2011 - 01:32 AM.

[Dlardrageth]

Yeah, a respawn function would make so much sense... for something like CounterStrike perhaps.

Here, though, even if you managed to eject from your wrecked Mech, you are standing somewhere on a huge battlefield, have no means of transportation handy, still hostile Mechs around who'd prolly love to stomp your bloody carcass into the ground given the chance. But hey, you still want to respawn right away, no matter what.

So what you do is, reach into your pocket, grab one of the magical seeds the nice magical fairy lady gave you. You pluck it into the ground, then you take your pink magical wand you bought at the magical shop in town and wave it three times over that seed. and *poof* in a matter of half a second it magically grows to appear as a shiny new BattleMech standing in front of you. You tuck the wand away and speak the magical word "Munchkin", which magically teleports you right back into the pilot seat, dressed up, neurohelmet on your head and magically already attuned. And magically off to battle you go...

Yeah, right, sounds totally like the BattleTech/MechWarrior we know...

[Joanna Conners]

I do not want MechAssault. I want MechWarrior. You've got one chance. If you get taken out then you've lost it. There should be no joining in progress either. All matches should be the teams from the start with one life. Assuming you don't lose your mech to salvage if you lose, you can haul it back to the shop and hope you've got the money to pound out the dents.

[Odin]

Best thing would be, we're getting both respawn and no respawn modes.
Respawn in modes without player stats counting aka no progress of your avatar - thats the fun mode, we all enjoy now and then, some of us more often then others. The real deal would be sans respawn, player stats on, for all objective based modes. Campaigns. But keep in mind it will slow gameplay down considerably. Since here a lot Warriors already complain about what they call "campers" aka tactical advanced play and thinking ahead. The fights getting realistic - unfair - when ever you can help it. The guy you don't see is the lad who gets you! On a side note; its interesting to know if the weapons would be rather hard hitting high damage per hit, or rather soft: Mechs taking lots of hits before anything can be broken. Thats what shapes the overall game pace. I for my part keep the battle as unfair as I can, if I can help it! Sniping, hiding, ambushes, you name it. Being smart means tactic not muscles. So if you want no respan you want sniping, slower pace and some such.


edit///

Would be nice to know what kind of gameplay the Devs envision for MWO. Slower, or faster pace. Then, again, we have to keep frustration levels of new blood and our younger brethren in check. Remember Paul don't like to mess up day one experience.

Edited by Odin, 23 November 2011 - 03:19 AM.

[Strayed]

Social Matches - Yes please have respawns
Ranked - No, and especially would like mech loss to be a worry.

[Adridos]

System of WoT is good. You get killed in battle, you can not use that tank, untill the battle ends. If you lose it, you have to pay extra to get that tank up and running again.

[Black Sunder]

No respawns ever. Loss needs to have meaning.

Now if you die and go back to your garage and have another mech available, then by all means jump in it and go play another match. But you can't play in the one you died in.

[Atlas3060]

I don't mind them under certain conditions.
If it is a simple 1v1 fight then no, you die then you die.
If we're playing team games with objectives then no, because your death will have more meaning for the team.
If we're playing some big server-wide event, like Luthien, then yes but under certain conditions.

Let's say we're fighting for the fate of that world against the Clans and you get shot out. You can come back as a reinforcement but your 'Mech and your pilot for that fight are not your normal ones. You get to play as some random grunt thrown into the fray. Does that suck? Why yes it does but that's the price for "dying" like that.

They can always allow your character back into the game because it was "recovering" or trying to find pieces to fit together for another ride after the event.

[Korbyn McColl]

I oppose respawns, since they basically make tactics worthless and favor lighter, faster mechs, which can get back in the action quicker.

Once mech per drop. That's it.

[RAINMANSlayer]

I say no to respawns also, I remember in MPBT Solaris when we dropped and got killed we would all go to the lobby and wait to see who was going to die next, the anticipation of seeing the last guy come into the lobby knowing your team lost or won was fun and nerve racking, especially when doing major invasion events.

[Zakski]

I hate to rain on your parade of hate for respawns (No I Don't) but ...

Quite simply respawns will have to be implemented in some form or the other.


Now I understand your reasons, which are in some cases come across as rabid and/or downright hostile, for not wanting respawns, but there are practical concerns.

Firstly Devs have stated that "Right now we’re thinking a normal match with objectives would take approximately 20 minutes"; Obviously this is subject to change, but if there are no respawns and you and your light mech take an ac/20 to the head from a Lyran Scout Lance in the first 5 mins, you are potentially looking at a 15 min wait time while your friends finish up. Now I don't know about you but most people after maybe the first 2 times this happens, will go play something else and simply will not come back. It will drive new players away and probably cause the game to fail, because waiting is not fun.

Now you may have noticed the word "objective" in that quote and you could point out that Deathmatches could be short, brutal affairs, but until the Devs get us more info it is hard to say for sure that it won't be slow and drawn out. Now if they were short, brutal affairs, I would suggest that deathmatches are broken into rounds and allow for inter- but not intra-round respawning.

In short, allowing Respawning is gud

In addition, ejecting before your mech brews up could affect your respawn time.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

dont really care what type if any respawn is givien, just wanna pilot mah mech also i played EvE online once, and i barely remeber it but doesnt EvE take days to actualy do anything?

Edited by Kodiak Jorgensson, 23 November 2011 - 08:11 AM.

[KingCobra]

I think most of you are looking at it for your own perspective's.Now lets look at it from the targeted markets side a (10-14 year old)They want to live forever just like we did when we were that age and in there games its no exception they dont want to die.So i personnaly like bolth norespawn&respawn i like norespawn when i think im the best and want to show it 1v1 or last man standing,Then i like respawn in TeanBattles becouse i want to go back in and help my pals.I think the game will be respawn if there is a norespawn mode im sure it would be in some tournament mode.

Edited by KingCobra, 23 November 2011 - 08:26 AM.

[Moppelkotze]

Kodiak Jorgensson, on 23 November 2011 - 08:11 AM, said:

dont really care what type if any respawn is givien, just wanna pilot mah mech also i played EvE online once, and i barely remeber it but doesnt EvE take days to actualy do anything?

It takes time to be prepared for a battle but you respawn instantly and can be back in the fight in a few minutes
when you got a ship ready where you respawn. You wouldn't want to join a fight with the free rookieship.

I'd like respawns in teamdeathmatches that base on tickets or just time that's passing away and a round ends after 60 minutes.
Points you earn / tickets your team loses are based on the value of your Mech (as MWLL is doing it).
But that should be just some fun for instant action - could be a holomatch or something like this.
That would explain why you get no XP no C-Bills and you lose no Mech.

As already statet waiting 15 Minutes may suck. When playing CS waiting 5 minutes was already hell.

[CeeKay Boques]

If MWO is all there is in the world, at the battles are realism based, then sure, one Mech and I'm out.

However, coming from league play, sometimes bad stuff happens. In "60 kill" games on 8 v 8, 30 minutes respawn can be a tactics. No, its not real, and its not "Battletech", (think of Solaris though) but it is an E-Sport, and my favorite one at that. Changing tactics because you are "losing" and then overcoming them can only happen in respawn games. Otherwise, unless Kai Allard is on your team, once you lose two mechs, its a slippery slope to death. Once its 6 V 8, some magic better happen or its over.

Having high kill games and an E-Sport League has been a huge, huge part of Mechwarrior. Same with 1 life Planetary Leagues. Both have their place. Hopefully MWO will have both.

So where's the "love" box?

Edited by Technoviking, 23 November 2011 - 09:25 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

RAINMANSlayer, on 23 November 2011 - 07:22 AM, said:

I say no to respawns also, I remember in MPBT Solaris when we dropped and got killed we would all go to the lobby and wait to see who was going to die next, the anticipation of seeing the last guy come into the lobby knowing your team lost or won was fun and nerve racking, especially when doing major invasion events.

Or listening to the Battle on TS Comms and cheering or weeping as the last of your Lance fell. It was awesome...