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Community Warfare Queue - How It Works


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#221 Anachronda

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 02:20 AM

View PostDarth Futuza, on 13 December 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

I'm curious as to the reasoning behind not wanting to drop with a group? Anti-social?

You don't have to necessarily join a unit, a lot of units will allow guests as long as your polite and don't have a stick up your butt.


It has nothing to do with antisocial. The opposite is actually probably true. I don't get what people are saying about "solo mechwarrior" either. There is no "solo" play, you always play with a group. It's just that some people are playing with a group of people they may not know already, which until now was about the only way to even meet people to group with later. It's also pretty fun and a very social thing to do since you are willing to interact with people you don't know.

The more important aspect here is time and opportunity. As others have noted, having 11 other players only works if you can all commit to a regular time to play simultaneously. If you can't or someone doesn't show up because of real life obligations, well, you're back to PUGing anyway just like any other game.

Joining a unit isn't just a simple matter. You have to pick one after researching (where I have no idea - I've so far only found people giving unit websites in game - sometimes), then apply and be accepted. Once you are, you then have obligations to fulfill. Not everyone can do that - some people don't have time and resources to commit to that kind of thing but they still want to play the game. In the past in other games I've actually used PUGs exclusively (peppered with friends I meet along the way) instead of joining a guild/clan or in this case unit. Partly that is because of the reasons I outlined, partly because I frankly find it more fun to play with people who are a surprise, and partly it is also because of the drama and politics people end up dealing with when it would be more fun to just play the game. Maybe there is less of that here, I dunno.

It's not even a matter of bias toward 12 man groups, either. The way the algorithm is described, even if there were 100 single players they might *never* be put into a drop because the only way people in small groups or alone will ever be picked is to fill out a premade group that lacks players. And even then, that group will not get dropped if there's a 12 man, even if they come in later. It's kind of sad, too, because it also means that even if 100 people want to defend the planet, the attackers can automatically win if none of those 100 people are part of a premade group.

As for me, I am a beginning player, very much a novice. I am trying to learn but there is a steep learning curve and I haven't found a lot of information on strategy and whatnot. So what I learn is mostly by watching and listening to players who seem like they might know what they are doing. Until I can get a lot better than I am now I would probably not be welcome in a hardcore group, for good reason. I do intend to do that, but this is going to be true of anyone new, and although I expect to continue to improve I probably won't become some kind of champion tournament winning powerplayer. I don't see the problem with having two PUGs fight each other. The feature is supposed to be a matchmaker. Taking people who want to play and putting them into groups is what matchmakers are supposed to do. Having people have to create a group before they start the matchmaker basically means there is no matchmaker to speak of.

That said, all of these features are welcome. The global chat may help, although I have never seen anyone talking there. People apparently tend to use outside sources for communication, maybe because there used not to be any in-game means. They also often still use teamspeak (which you must set up and know what teamspeak group to join or whatever) instead of the in-game voip, which is kind of a side issue not really germane to this conversation. As side note, there's also the matter that you can't friend people during or after a match, even if you could possibly have time or do it during the countdown or results. I basically try and have pen and paper handy and write down the names of players I might find interesting who may or may not accept the request, and then friend them afterwards. There's no log or information about people you played with before so that seems to be the only way to do it.

Shouldn't people be able to play and learn before they try and figure out what unit they can join? There's no other way to practice shooting at moving targets, much less ones that shoot back, than joining in either CW or the regular conquest/assault/skirmish. No one is going to be good overnight - it takes time. I think an elitist attitude is more antisocial than being willing to play with anyone willing to play with you, anyway - no offense.

#222 Anachronda

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 03:33 AM

View PostTalono, on 15 December 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:


+1 on that, during yesterdays CW waiting time with one drop in 5 hours you made Amazon rich as i did the christmas shopping during the boring waiting :P


I usually end up waiting 30 minutes to an hour, even for planets that prompt me saying they need defenders or whatever. Sometimes I see the team being filled out or almost filled out, only to have people disappear. Maybe they disconnected because they waited too long, maybe the matchmaker is putting them somewhere else, I dunno. I find it hilarious that while waiting to play this game I have to sit and play some other game or read. I find a lot of people dropping afk because by the time they dropped, they fell asleep waiting or forgot they were in queue.

#223 Cimarb

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 08:25 AM

View PostAnachronda, on 22 February 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:


I usually end up waiting 30 minutes to an hour, even for planets that prompt me saying they need defenders or whatever. Sometimes I see the team being filled out or almost filled out, only to have people disappear. Maybe they disconnected because they waited too long, maybe the matchmaker is putting them somewhere else, I dunno. I find it hilarious that while waiting to play this game I have to sit and play some other game or read. I find a lot of people dropping afk because by the time they dropped, they fell asleep waiting or forgot they were in queue.

Then you need to learn how to read the queue info. There is a very visible reason you are waiting more than a couple minutes, at most. You just have to learn why.

#224 Anachronda

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 09:44 PM

View PostCimarb, on 22 February 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Then you need to learn how to read the queue info. There is a very visible reason you are waiting more than a couple minutes, at most. You just have to learn why.


I did read all of it. The only thing I am not doing "right" is dropping solo instead of having a unit. I always pick planets that either have prompted me to join or that show as having lots of attackers and defenders queued. The others have 0/0, so obviously I do not pick them. As I said before, if you look at how the queue is described as working players who do not have a premade group will only be picked if there is a premade group that is less than 12 players they can be used to pad. If everyone is PUGging none of them will be picked. I think that is probably the reason I am waiting so long. Maybe you have a premade group you play with.

Also, as I said, the planets that prompt saying "x needs defenders!" or "x needs attackers!" almost never result in me getting in. Manually picking a planet that has not been prompting seems to have the best results, which is kind of backwards. Maybe it's just that the needed players were already found. The least amount of time I have had to wait is probably about 20 minutes in the "ghost queue." This 5 minute stuff, well, I have yet to see. So I play solitaire while waiting to play the game I wanted to play, with the match generally taking less time than waiting did.

Incidentally, it occurs to me that anyone who doesn't have a 12 man premade is PUGging anyway because they are going to be joined with other groups or individuals by the matchmaker. So really this thing about needing a seed group before anyone is matched at all is kind of off the mark.

All of that said, I do like CW. I am looking forward to seeing it expand in scope, and the rewards in XP and C-Bills are pretty nice even for someone like me who still isn't doing great. The XP is even nicer because you get it on 4 mechs in one match potentially which should help with mastery.

Edited by Anachronda, 23 February 2015 - 08:39 AM.


#225 Cimarb

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 08:50 AM

View PostAnachronda, on 22 February 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:


I did read all of it. The only thing I am not doing "right" is dropping solo instead of having a unit. I always pick planets that either have prompted me to join or that show as having lots of attackers and defenders queued. The others have 0/0, so obviously I do not pick them. As I said before, if you look at how the queue is described as working players who do not have a premade group will only be picked if there is a premade group that is less than 12 players they can be used to pad. If everyone is PUGging none of them will be picked. I think that is probably the reason I am waiting so long. Maybe you have a premade group you play with.

Also, as I said, the planets that prompt saying "x needs defenders!" or "x needs attackers!" almost never result in me getting in. Manually picking a planet that has not been prompting seems to have the best results, which is kind of backwards. Maybe it's just that the needed players were already found. The least amount of time I have had to wait is probably about 20 minutes in the "ghost queue." This 5 minute stuff, well, I have yet to see. So I play solitaire while waiting to play the game I wanted to play, with the match generally taking less time than waiting did.

Incidentally, it occurs to me that anyone who doesn't have a 12 man premade is PUGging anyway because they are going to be joined with other groups or individuals by the matchmaker. So really this thing about needing a seed group before anyone is matched at all is kind of off the mark.

All of that said, I do like CW. I am looking forward to seeing it expand in scope, and the rewards in XP and C-Bills are pretty nice even for someone like me who still isn't doing great. The XP is even nicer because you get it on 4 mechs in one match potentially which should help with mastery.

I am glad you like it - I love it, lol.

Yeah, the call to arms is a lot better since the recent changes, but it is still not the only thing to pay attention to.

Btw, I did not mean to sound off as derogatory in my previous comment, but re-reading it in your quote, I think I may have came off that way. Sorry if it did...

Anyways, what I mean is that there is a lot of information to base your choices on now. Look at the numbers dropping on the planet. Look at the "Queue Info" tab, not the "Planet Info" tab (which is the default, for some reason). See how many spots are open, and then drop on the parent that is going to be most useful to your size group (even if it is a group of 1). Do NOT just blindly click on the first call to arms that pops up!

Or.......just join a unit, lol

#226 Anachronda

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 04:49 PM

View PostCimarb, on 23 February 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Anyways, what I mean is that there is a lot of information to base your choices on now. Look at the numbers dropping on the planet. Look at the "Queue Info" tab, not the "Planet Info" tab (which is the default, for some reason). See how many spots are open, and then drop on the parent that is going to be most useful to your size group (even if it is a group of 1). Do NOT just blindly click on the first call to arms that pops up!

Or.......just join a unit, lol


I didn't know about the queue info tab. That is interesting and I will try and make sense of that. I was talking about the "Planet Finder." Just now I am looking at some planets that show a lot of attackers/defenders, but the queue info shows no one queued. I guess that means everyone is already fighting, which is probably what you mean. If all of the possible fights on the planet are already happening there would be no queue for another one until at least one match was over. THAT would account for a significant chunk of waiting time.

As far as joining a unit goes, maybe that's a question for another thread, but I'd actually like to do that if I could find the right one. Particularly one that is friendly to newbies and has people in it willing to help people learn. Or a casual one, or both. Problem is, from all the research I have tried to do I still haven't the foggiest clue how to find and join one. In other games you have searches to find clans/guilds/whatever you might want to join based on criteria, and guilds will have websites telling you who's in them, what they are about, and how to apply. You can talk to people and friend them while you are playing with them.

Here, you can't friend in the actual game. That's a separate interface you can only enter while not playing. You have no memory of who you played with so you have to write their names down quick. No one talks so you know nothing about them. What I have done so far is write down names of people whose names I thought were funny or interesting or who seemed friendly for some reason. Like this one guy liked an SSRM Kit Fox build I was running because he had something similar and we friended each other. We talked about it a bit but you can only talk to people in the friend chat when they are not playing yet have the game loaded. No in-game email - if the guy doesn't notice your message it's gone for good. The first several messages I was sent I never received because I couldn't figure out how. The interface is backwards. You have to tell it you want to SEND a message to read a received message. Kind of silly.

The faction chat, as I said, never has a single character of text, EVER. Does anyone even try it? I kind of thought that was something people were looking forward to as a way to meet people. So my problem remains finding out how to find out who people are and what units I can group with. I've only randomly stumbled on a few that had websites by looking at people's posts and signatures and chatspams.

No worries on sounding derogatory. I thought maybe I would sound too whinging when really what I am trying to find is information. I mean some people are obviously doing something right. I should learn what that is. And it's not easy developing software like this - I have some inkling of how hard that is as well. So, you know, I don't mean to sound ungrateful. I was happy as hell to find out there was a Battletech game in the modern era AT ALL. I actually found this game while searching for a manual to the 1989 game I played as a teenager. That and Crescent Hawks were the only games I remember playing. My computer wasn't good enough for Mechwarrior 2 when it came out. I was jealous. :)

Edited by Anachronda, 23 February 2015 - 06:08 PM.


#227 Cimarb

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 05:04 PM

Well, finding a unit is as easy as going down to the faction forums and looking through the recruitment threads. Or, clicking on a signature, lol.

PGI definitely has a long ways to go on the chat UI, I agree. They have finally started adding features, and it is supposed to get a pretty serious overhaul soon, so here is hoping...

(edit: oh, and the LFG tool is coming next patch, I believe, which will help quite a bit)

Edited by Cimarb, 23 February 2015 - 05:05 PM.


#228 aGentleWarrior

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:58 PM

Informative, THX

anyway annoying for Soloplayers like me.
Maybe it was already proposed, add a planet independent queue some can join.

For me it really doesn't matter which planet i fight, I mean, every planet has same 2 maps....
Basically the only difference is whether you attackor def, and even that could be ignored in that indepenedent queue...

#229 Kinski Orlawisch

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 01:27 AM

3 maps..and they make more.

#230 Cimarb

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 07:51 AM

I fully support a "general CW" queue, and have suggested it a couple of times. Russ said it would be more difficult than it seems like it would be. (Not saying I believe that; just stating what he said)

#231 Trystan Thorne

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 10:50 AM

It was an interesting read, but I wonder if the matchmaking in CW isn't too convoluted.
Now saying that, PGI has the data and maybe it really makes sense to do it this way. It's obviously not new player friendly, but at the same time it's the most interesting game mode really IMHO (and the one that could bring most new players really).

I just think that many people don't really understand the matchmaking system yet and it can be quiet frustrating therefore.
Just yesterday I joined a PUG in CW (expecting to lose every game but to have some fun nonetheless) only later to be accused of synch dropping (didn't even know what that means at the time and only learned it while continiously been abused on teamchat).
Shows that some people don't understand that it's quite unlikely to win CW games if you queue solo. As of now CW can only be enjoyed really in groups or by solo queuers who expect to lose, but try to win. :-)

But this needs to change if MWO wants to grow. Somehow PGI needs to cater for people who want to queue in a group and for people who want to queue solo. And it's not a task I envy them for.

#232 Scorpioneldar

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:39 AM

View PostFelio, on 13 December 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

The job of a matchmaker is to make matches so we don't have to. Rather than push this responsibility onto us, investing substantial resources in creating global chat to do so, why not configure the matchmaker to maximize the experience for all players?

I have read many times that the focus is on units and 12-man teams, but I have seen nothing on the reasoning or justification behind it. It comes off like you are picking your favorite players to cater to.

CW is a really fun thing you have created, and we all want to participate and have a good time doing so.

I did not see the original pitch to the founders, but I would guess that many backers were unaware so much of what was promised would only be delivered if they played in a particular way.

My apologies if I am way off base, but this is my perception: Maybe this issue is harder for you to see because getting organized with others comes naturally to you. There's no problem, you may reason, because we could just play the way you like to and everything would be fine. "What's the big deal?" But it doesn't come naturally to everyone. Some players have a very strong aversion to it, in fact. You don't have to understand it, but I hope that you do know it.

the reason is in the basic lore a standard company is always 12 mechs more specifically every lance is 4 mechs and 3 lances make a company. the orginization of the clans is a little diffrient (they use 5 mech stars as aposed to 4 mech lances) but for balence reasons they had to chose the same for both sides
you rarely see a single lance doing anything other than scout to light skirmish missions
really a single company for protecting a whole world is rather light all things considered
the point of this game is the themeatic convention everything sticks to the MW timeline and rules as much as possible
they are doing MW "right" as opposed to the previous games that made it a single man glory fest (though the clans would love that)

#233 Scorpioneldar

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:58 AM

that said i would be perfectly fine if they decided to sacrifice theme a bit to caterr to 1 person heroics like me:P anyway yeah the reason 12 is the magic number for this game is that 12 is the magic number for Battle tech in general. and factors there of of course really any factor of 4 is prefered but 12 24 36 ect is a company by company basis
that said often a company would have less than standard mechs but vehicle and artilery support. air cover was a big deal too in battle tech entire planets could be decided by the air cover never mind the mechs

#234 Romeo Deluxe

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 06:02 PM

Suggest adding this man's labeled screenshot to your post.
http://mwomercs.com/...reen-explained/

#235 Tiger Dad

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 10:55 PM

Wait times killed me. I just couldn't take it. 7 points, 2 nonpoints was my limit.

#236 Cimarb

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 10:46 AM

View PostTiger Dad, on 30 March 2015 - 10:55 PM, said:

Wait times killed me. I just couldn't take it. 7 points, 2 nonpoints was my limit.

Then join a unit. Average wait times were about a minute for us, maybe a little less.

#237 Tiger Dad

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:04 AM

@Cimarb That probably would have been best. I blame real life for not being able to sync up because I would have to bail games at any minute. I finally did get 10. I say it could have been better. But hell, it coulda been way worse. I would say I enjoyed it more than I thought. FPS killed me though. I need a better machine instead of my laptop.

Edited by Tiger Dad, 01 April 2015 - 06:04 AM.


#238 Lightfoot

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 07:52 PM

So I am waiting for Merc Unit functionality in CW to be added before joining a unit. I need to get a better understanding of what the effects will be before joining one. I was the CO of a Merc Unit in MW3 and MW4 and so I know that part, which is why I am waiting.

So the way CW works for me today as a soloist is I am grouped with one two player team and the rest are soloists also. Then we are pitted against a 12 player pre-made who are using the FotM inner sphere Quirk mechs only and lose. In the beginning CW pitted us against teams with similar make-ups and it was about 50-50 chance to win.



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 19 April 2015 - 07:54 PM.


#239 Kushner

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 03:17 PM

Queue times for solo queue is insane, what is the point of telling you what position in line you are in when it kicks you back to last place ever 5 minutes, MWO needs to quit making all the clans happy and make it easier for solo people to find a match.

#240 Jragonsoul

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 12:46 PM

View PostKushner, on 24 April 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Queue times for solo queue is insane, what is the point of telling you what position in line you are in when it kicks you back to last place ever 5 minutes, MWO needs to quit making all the clans happy and make it easier for solo people to find a match.

This is my issue. 40 minute wait right now and I keep getting bounced to the back of the line. What kind of ******** is this?





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