75 replies to this topic

[Nihils]

Yeah the current attack meta is a bit silly, zerg the generator is the only strat I've seen work.

Attackers can't fight at the gate because the defenders have better firing positions, a chokepoint, and respawn closer. Also, the damn dropships often can shoot people even outside the gate. Attackers can't fight inside the enemy base because turrets and dropship guns will tear them apart (and the defenders respawn closer).

The result is: Attackers can't fight the defenders at all. You either rush the generator as one big mass for a (probably) easy win, or you hang out at the gates and wait for the "Defeat" screen.

Moving the defender respawn back a bit, or at least reducing the range on the defender's dropships would help some, but if they're going to nerf the defense in general they need to also do something to make generator rushes more difficult. I don't know what exactly needs to be done, but it's certainly not optimal for every game to be either a generator zerg for the offense or a 48-mech shooting gallery with a forgone conclusion for the defense.

[Brody319]

Wait near the gen. They rush it, you Drop the hammer. SRMs, UACs and Pulse lasers will stop rushes faster than any other weapon.

[Karamarka]

Attacking is an auto-win by a group of 12 lights or a group of people who know to rush and dont even shoot mechs (lol?? nice mechwarrior game)

There is not enough DPS to shoot through the lagshield when they rush the base all at once

The Sulfurous map the distance between the gate and generator is 5 seconds.


There is only 1 strategy in the entire game for Attackers and that is just rush and ignore mechs... funny and dumb at the same time

[Claviger]

Aye an organized team usually wins on attack, ignore defenders, zerg turrets then cannon. Easy peasy.

When its two mixed groups it usually plays out different though.

[Nihils]

Brody319, on 13 December 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

Wait near the gen. They rush it, you Drop the hammer. SRMs, UACs and Pulse lasers will stop rushes faster than any other weapon.

Then it becomes a dps race to see if they can kill the generator before you kill them. And they have 3 more tries with the same strat. Not to mention, if that plan DID reliably prevent zerg rushing then there would be no way to win against smart defenders. Even if we assume that generator zerg strats are not OP and can be stopped, we still have the problem of that being the ONLY strategy available for the offense.

[Brody319]

Nihils, on 13 December 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

Then it becomes a dps race to see if they can kill the generator before you kill them. And they have 3 more tries with the same strat. Not to mention, if that plan DID reliably prevent zerg rushing then there would be no way to win against smart defenders. Even if we assume that generator zerg strats are not OP and can be stopped, we still have the problem of that being the ONLY strategy available for the offense.

In my experience its the wave you didn't expect coming. Especially on sulfer when they open all the doors, then they rush alpha after you moved to beta.

[Lily from animove]

Team Chevy86, on 13 December 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

Really? Every other topic I've read explains how impossible attacking is
We must be doing something wrong

No the issue normal attakcing is extremely hard to impossible, while "rush and shoto omega" is actually a no brian intsant win thats not avoidable.

while the first offers not much conquest for the CW intention, but good battles, the later one is just 100% good for CW conquers but is not much "mechwarrior" or battle at all.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 December 2014 - 11:33 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Truly a thinking man's shooter.

[STEF_]

Karamarka, on 13 December 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

Attacking is an auto-win by a group of 12 lights or a group of people who know to rush and dont even shoot mechs (lol?? nice mechwarrior game)

There is not enough DPS to shoot through the lagshield when they rush the base all at once

The Sulfurous map the distance between the gate and generator is 5 seconds.


There is only 1 strategy in the entire game for Attackers and that is just rush and ignore mechs... funny and dumb at the same time

Totally quote.
It's impossible to stop a rush in that sulphorous map. There isn't enough space/time.

[Desolator]

Rad Hanzo, on 13 December 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Kill all 48 defending mechs and be done with it ?

Yes, that takes more time than a well executed Zerg-rush, but it is also infintely more rewarding too .

Tink aboot dat, me lads ´n lasses .

You are aware that you do not win if you kill all 48 defending mechs.

You still have to actually kill the Cannon within the time limit.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Rad Hanzo, on 13 December 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Kill all 48 defending mechs and be done with it ?

Yes, that takes more time than a well executed Zerg-rush, but it is also infintely more rewarding too .

Tink aboot dat, me lads ´n lasses .

Unless the reward is to amass as many planets as possible. The reward isnt all about c-bills now.

We know that a 12 man organized enough to do a zerg rush and win in 5 minutes will be coordinated enough to defend their point where they can get all their c-bills.


Perhaps attackers must kill all the mechs, AND the generator? or, they must sustain a dominating point range before the generator is destroyed... hmm...

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 14 December 2014 - 12:04 AM.

[kapusta11]

The problem lies in player's mentality, the objective for attackers is clear - destroy the gun, they do exactly that. If you think that attackers will trade shots with you despite the turrets and despite the fact that you can reinforce quickly and they cannot you are sadly mistaken.

[FatYak]

kapusta11, on 14 December 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

The problem lies in player's mentality, the objective for attackers is clear - destroy the gun, they do exactly that. If you think that attackers will trade shots with you despite the turrets and despite the fact that you can reinforce quickly and they cannot you are sadly mistaken.

So then explain to me how blowing up a generator despite the fact you are probably still outnumbered at the end gives you control over the complex??


I just had a match, lost, we were winning 32-15 and they win because some guy in a spider gets behind the generator and blows it up. Despite them being still drastically out numbered, they take control of the base??


It might be a tactical victory, its certainly not an absolute one

[ZenFool]

Someone else put in another post to have each defending mech give 2% invulnerability to the generator. While not being realistic at all it would certainly stop the rush. We all know this is beta and it will be fixed, its just a matter of how they do it. I actually had a teammate earlier this evening refuse to rush, saying he'd rather shoot and lose than rush and win. I completely understood his sentiment but was still upset knowing we had little chance of winning with only 8 mechs willing to push the defenses(3 others thought they could outsnipe the clanners).

[xe N on]

I think it should remain a valid tactic. You can defend from this first rush by using anti-light mechs, especially clans with CSSRM6 spamming Stormcrows and Timber Wolves.

However, since it is the first rush, you need to decide if you want to go long range defense using LRMs or short range defense using SSRMs.

[MischiefSC]

I've helped a group of pugs roll a 12man that tried to zerg. You just need to know what you're doing and come out of the gate ready for it.

You need to make sure you've got a clear command and a plan to deal with zerging when you're on defense. You need 2 or 3 lights in every wave ready to hop up on the gen.

You need to learn to read attempts by the other team to clear turrets in prep for a zerg rush. Also when the other team has 2 pushes with heavy/assaults, they only have tonnage for 2 waves of lights left.

Pay attention to enemy tonnage usage, don't get too far up from base. Have your scouts at the gate call enemy composition.

It's not by any stretch impossible. Winning in assault is hard though. This keeps planets from flipping too quickly.

[Michael Abt]

Nihils, on 13 December 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

Then it becomes a dps race to see if they can kill the generator before you kill them. And they have 3 more tries with the same strat. Not to mention, if that plan DID reliably prevent zerg rushing then there would be no way to win against smart defenders. Even if we assume that generator zerg strats are not OP and can be stopped, we still have the problem of that being the ONLY strategy available for the offense.

Yesterday i fought twice against the same 12man doing the light rush on Sulphur. Second match against them i warned my PUG team and we set up an Omega defense. Although we succeeded in destroying that wave they still took Omega down to 50%.

Guess they were irritated because it took several minutes until their second wave arrived. This time it was a mixture of lights and fast mediums. Lights blew up the gate generator and then they did a combined push. The mediums had enough armor and firepower to survive long enough to finish off the job.

When you know the light rush is incoming you may have a chance setting up a proper defense. However, if your team is not prepared there is no chance of stopping them.

[Lord Ikka]

Just defended Skondia from Steiner aggression. An 8-man DOGS group with allies attempted to light rush against 7-man 9th Sword and allies. Bottom line, we won 48-18. Zerg rush only works against an unprepared opponent. Even in sniper mech we were able to take them out without losing the generator. Coordination (typing in chat works wonders in CW I've found) is the true winner- groups that work together will win. It is not an unstoppable tactic.

On the attacking side, long range sniping combined with a strong mid-game push works well. You have to have some patience and whittle down the defenders before you push.

Edited by Lord Ikka, 14 December 2014 - 01:55 AM.

[Sandpit]

It's called strategy. It's called teamwork. More players should try it some time. It would really improve their game experience.

Oh and
http://mwomercs.com/...ckers-cant-win/

this thread called. It wants to know how attackers can't be stopped since that thread's title is attackers can't win.

You guys are hilarious sometimes.

[kapusta11]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

It's called strategy. It's called teamwork. More players should try it some time. It would really improve their game experience.

You guys are hilarious sometimes.

So much this^^