67 replies to this topic

[Haydin]

This ghost drops should not be counting towards planetary squares for invasion. As it stands, factions with fewer player numbers cannot really counter aggression from more populous factions. We aren't just losing, we literally cannot fight back. Sure it makes sense that you can overwhelm with numbers in-lore, but it makes for a pretty terrible gameplay experience.

And when I'm on the other end of the ghost drops, it's boring, doesn't pay well, and annoying. I wouldn't mind them being cut out of the game entirely.

Edited by Haydin, 14 December 2014 - 12:54 AM.

[ShinVector]

Something has got to be done about this.

[Adamski]

The Lyran Commonwealth has 8 CW Queues
FRR has 4
Draconis Combine has 6
Free Worlds League has 6
Cappellan Confederation has 4
Federated Suns has 8

Then any IS can join one of the ~10 Clan vs IS queues.

How could CW possibly work with ~46 queues +++ whatever Clan only queues without the Ghost Drops.

I mean,obviously someone with access to playerbase numbers wouldn't split the playerbase into that many separate queues if it wouldn't support it would they?

[Pit]

Its a hard issue to solve, Liao in particular has been losing ground constantly, despite our unit winning most of our matches tonight we literally can not fight back because of ghost drops eating away at our planets. But on the other hand if Ghost Drops were removed IS could completely lock out Clans by not engaging them at all.

There needs to be some solution, Davion has a humongous population that is gaining victories, but isn't getting an entertaining fight, and Liao is saddled with fruitless victories in the face of an unending, around-the-clock tide of Davions. We've lost 4 planets already, without a prayer of pushing them back. At this rate Liao will not exist as a faction on the map, and that is not acceptable.

I am opposed to the proposed flexible weight solution. Balance in this game is so precarious that I feel that any changes to the drop deck size would be too overwhelming an advantage. I prefer keeping the meta of CW out of the core gameplay. (This opinion is likely to change if clever Eve Online inspired logistic options are available later on.) I would rather a victory feel legitimate based on player skill and strategy. There are already too many elements skewing that balance (ex Pilot/mech skill upgrades and expensive modules).

Proposed solution: Do away with the 11 win system, and replace it with a percentage. Then, scale victory gains as inversely proportional to the active (currently dropping) population ratio between each faction, while assuming factions with two equal populations would still need +11 wins. This should allow factions with smaller populations to make larger gains towards control with each victory, while more populous factions, can still ghost drop to victory, but they will be less effective. It might be necessary to give a small buff to the more populous side to help compensate for the increased logistical difficulty in organizing.

Some UI elements should also be made to convey exactly what percentage is currently being fought for by other units in your faction, and what percentage towards control your unit can currently win with a single match. As well as the relative power of the opponent's forces.


Some other benefits: This system would also enable certain planets to be more fortified or vulnerable than others for lore or strategic purposes by weighing the win percentage artificially. For example, it should be easier to defend home systems, and harder to defend a region cut-off from resources.

TL:DR Make it easier to gain control of a planet if you have a smaller population of active players in your faction.

Edited by Pit, 14 December 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[Adamski]

The mechanic that PGI forgot to implement, is the fewer planets a faction holds, the easier it is to hold them (IE: They get a bonus to tonnage drops when attack / defend, faster respawns, their planets take more points to flip, quadrupling rewards, etc)

This way, under populated factions are less likely to be wiped from the map, and also encourages people to join them.

[Pit]

Increased tonnage will not stop the problem if they are getting 3 uncontested victories to your 1

That also dilutes the excitement of the game further, now both sides might as well be ghost dropping. Equal match will cease. I would much prefer that matches be on equal footing and the CW meta left outside of the core gameplay.

Edited by Pit, 14 December 2014 - 02:35 AM.

[Pit]

bump for visibility

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Your not the only one, we're wasting 10's of hours on the same planets because the ghost games keep bringing the tokens down.
It needs to stop.

[Lacewing]

This also happened to me several times vs davion, what is very strange.

[pinsndneedles]

The ghost drops definitely affect things a lot. Case in point: Paris and Tripoli on the Fed Suns-Combine border having been seeing a lot of fighting the last few days. The more "elite" units on either side, such as 228, can only fight one match at a time, which can let the other side tarpit them and keep that elite unit tied down for up to half an hour. Meanwhile, others get drops on uncoordinated groups or ghost drops that nullify the gains on the part of those more competitive groups. Makes the whole thing a lot more biased towards the side with more numbers.

[_____]

I dunno. As much as I want to win, Liao is supposed to be undermanned against Davions right now. CCAF is supposed to be spread very thin at this point in time.

[Pit]

Bump for visibility

[BlakeAteIt]

An idea:

Bump it to 23 tokens per planet.
Winning vs people = 2 tokens.
Winning vs turrets = 1 token.

This way, factions can't decline to defend territory, but ghost dropping is not as viable.

Edited by BlakeAteIt, 14 December 2014 - 08:46 PM.

[Vandril]

BlackhawkSC, on 14 December 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

I dunno. As much as I want to win, Liao is supposed to be undermanned against Davions right now. CCAF is supposed to be spread very thin at this point in time.

Understandable that Liao is supposed to be out numbered, and there should be an advantage to those numbers. On the same half, as it works right now it shows that only numbers matter, not the quality of the fighters or the fights. Sucks winning all day to simply see that four ghost drops happened during your victory and made that time worthless for CW...

[Davers]

I am sure PGI is tracking how many 'ghost victories' there are. I would not be surprised if smaller Houses/Clans had the number of available planets to attack or defend reduced. Maybe the more populous factions would have more worlds open to attack as well.

[Pit]

Davers, on 14 December 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

I am sure PGI is tracking how many 'ghost victories' there are. I would not be surprised if smaller Houses/Clans had the number of available planets to attack or defend reduced. Maybe the more populous factions would have more worlds open to attack as well.

The entirety of Liao efforts tonight were directed at trying to defend New Sagan and we still lost. There are so many Davions that this would not change a thing.

[Brody319]

They claimed they would increase rewards and other things to encourage balanced factions. unfortunately those factions in need of it right now are going to be far worse off by the time they fix it.

Liao has some planets to spare at least. Smoke Jaguar has even less people, and is down to 3-4 planets.

[Russ Bullock]

It really comes down to the counter attacks. We must have them otherwise once a faction won 6 zones they would just stop attacking and make sure they get the flip.

Even though we weren't completely put off by the notion that numbers could have an advantage I think I can say now we are not okay with the level of advantage large groups currently have.

I will be discussing tomorrow with the team how we can best limit the amount of counter attacks. Then a smaller population would have a chance of keeping up and if they had a better win percentage could be successful in holding or taking over a planet.

But it would need to be a pace of counter attacks that would still require reasonable amounts of activity.

Thanks for your input and patience as we work through these items

Russ

[Brody319]

Russ Bullock, on 14 December 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

It really comes down to the counter attacks. We must have them otherwise once a faction won 6 zones they would just stop attacking and make sure they get the flip.

Even though we weren't completely put off by the notion that numbers could have an advantage I think I can say now we are not okay with the level of advantage large groups currently have.

I will be discussing tomorrow with the team how we can best limit the amount of counter attacks. Then a smaller population would have a chance of keeping up and if they had a better win percentage could be successful in holding or taking over a planet.

But it would need to be a pace of counter attacks that would still require reasonable amounts of activity.

Thanks for your input and patience as we work through these items

Russ

Thanks Russ. Smoke Jaguar really needs all the help it can get.
and I guess Liao but..they are IS..so..meh

[jaxjace]

I love how the only ones jipped are the FRRs and Liao.

Face it boys, all your planets are belong to us.

Id like to see how this works out because at this rate FRR Liao and sjr will be gone in a matter of weeks. Wont be missed.