67 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

Well, how do you balance it out then?

I'm still thinking on that subject, but I definitely don't want this. Even if we implement this, don't make it 15, make it 4.

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

Faction numbers are gonna be a popularity contest between comp units on one hand, and herds of solos on the other.

PGI could buff incentives to the unpopular Factions but if the rewards get too big people will just start gaming the rewards.

I agree with you there, and don't think C-Bills are the way to go, since they are doing that already.

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

I dont see defenders having that much advantage. At least not as things are now.

The terrain, turrets, dropships, and lack of cover, all favor teams on the defense. On top of the fact that attackers can only take one planet at a time.

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

12 vs 12 man comes down to skill. No problem there.
12 vs pug, likely in favor strongly of 12man.
pug vs pug...likely random if neither are on comms/sych dropping

Pretty much. Although the bright side of pugs in CW is that they communicate, and listen.

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

So for instance FRR is fighting CGB and CW, they both have more people than FRR.
We can defend all we want, they will get us on ghost drops.

Not defending at all? Whats the point in that aside from trying to strategically give up territory?

So how do you buff outnumbered factions? If you dont want to nerf populous ones?

Im sure PGI will find a mechanic to solve it but as it stands now, its a numbers/popularity game.

I'm also still working on it, but penalizing a faction of player count is NOT the way to go, at least in my opinion.

I think R&R or some form of temporary loss can help mitigate things.

Right now our biggest problem is that I can deploy three companies from HHoD to a planet, we can lose all but one mech in each match, and win with that last one, and come our fourth drop, we still have 3 companies on the offense. There is no attrition in this game.

Attrition would also allow stronger units to have the ridiculous impact on the field of battle that they should have. Teams that can rout an attacking enemy while suffering minimum losses would benefit from it, while reckless assaults without thought, and full on suicide rushes will wear the attackers' out, and possibly stall their advance.

However, for that to really work, we also need some proper planetary rewards to make it manageable. Otherwise, people might start hemorrhaging C-Bills in CW. (The possibility of making it so that if a mech is out of commission, it's only out of commission in CW, not in regular queue, allowing the pilots to keep playing.)

ShinVector, on 25 December 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

I had a thought.. Since this is 'BETA' anyway..

Why not:
1. Auto Wins = 0 Wins !! (People can still run auto wins to get the rewards, if they want to but it count nothing to planet wins.)
2. Only real 12v12 match count !!

Leave this for at least a week.... Then we can see who is actually winning the battles during prime time.
If it suddenly becomes a stale mate... It is obvious that certain factions have been winning planets due to their great numbers rather than skill.

Just a thought...

Yeah, then no borders change. Simply because people can choose to not defend.

[InspectorG]

IraqiWalker, on 25 December 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

.

By and large, yes.

Many pugs ive been in have had decent comms. Others...less so. Game built in voip would be nice.


R&R may be part of the solution. But it could make more pugs into chickens. Mechs 'out of commission' could have a cooldown depending on how upgraded it is. Perhaps giving a role to stock builds?

More/stronger turrets for defenders? But have them revert back to current status upon counter attack?

I just read ghost drops only account for @3% of wins...seems more to me but i dont have the stats.

Russ commented on the population problem. I guess they're on it...well after holidays.

[IraqiWalker]

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

Game built in voip would be nice.

That alone would solve SO MANY problems.

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

R&R may be part of the solution. But it could make more pugs into chickens. Mechs 'out of commission' could have a cooldown depending on how upgraded it is. Perhaps giving a role to stock builds?

More/stronger turrets for defenders? But have them revert back to current status upon counter attack?

I just read ghost drops only account for @3% of wins...seems more to me but i dont have the stats.

Russ commented on the population problem. I guess they're on it...well after holidays.

I was thinking that R&R would give also benefits to running faction specific mech. Running a faction-friendly mech would make replacing it easier, and faster, possibly even instant. Stock mechs get replaced immediately, upgraded faction mechs are replaced a bit slower, and non-faction mechs take longer, with the extreme edge of non-faction upgraded mechs taking the longest.

This would also get players to pilot all their mechs more often. Instead of just those 4.

[InspectorG]

IraqiWalker, on 25 December 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

I was thinking that R&R would give also benefits to running faction specific mech. Running a faction-friendly mech would make replacing it easier, and faster, possibly even instant. Stock mechs get replaced immediately, upgraded faction mechs are replaced a bit slower, and non-faction mechs take longer, with the extreme edge of non-faction upgraded mechs taking the longest.

This would also get players to pilot all their mechs more often. Instead of just those 4.

Could. But do Clans have enough different mechs?

[IraqiWalker]

InspectorG, on 25 December 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

Could. But do Clans have enough different mechs?

Maybe with a third wave. I wouldn't be comfortable with it right now. However, this is Beta CW, so we'll hopefully be fine for the real deal launch.

[Caustic Canid]

I know it would never happen, but I would like to see empty drops populated with A.I. controlled mechs... if done right, the A.I. could pose enough of a challenge that the game would still take ~20 minutes. They could scale the A.I. Accordingly to ELO, as well as give a basic understanding of common tactics used in games...

Stupid I know. Just a thought.

[AeusDeif]

Ghost drops are necessary to keep people from simply not dropping in order to keep a planet. Even if you had a planet require people drop on it or else it flips, people would still abuse it by getting majority wins and then not dropping on it. Ghost drops are necessary.

I think the best way to balance the effect of lopsided population (which manifests in ghost drops) is to incentivize a balanced population -and- limit the amount of contracts and how they give access to a planet.

more details:

Spoiler

Quote

Contracts are given out to units to fight on -one- border of a faction vs. the other faction on that border.

1. Tier CW into two queues 'raiding' and 'invading.' In the raiding queue, groups of up to 4 fight in matches that do not take planets, but have an effect on border 'health' (simulates raiding of supply lines versus border patrol). This 'health' is just a win percentage, which is averaged with the win percentage of Invasion matches to determine whether a planet is taken/held.

2. In the invading queue, Groups of 8+ may take planets but must be formed by a member of a unit contracted with that house to Invade on that border. They can group with faction members, and matchmaker fills leftover spots from the raiding queue above.

3. Limit unit contracts so that they pertain to invading on one border of a faction. Then limit the number of unit contracts -- make each faction only able to hire one unit more than is posted on that border by the opposing faction; no hard limit but always proportional. Consider opening up more planets to invade on each front to keep the Invasion queue active and more places for Raiding to have an effect.

4. Also, raiding should be more profitable on a border that has a greater amount of factioned players on the far side, and less profitable on a border that has less factioned players on the far side. This simulates the home faction paying a higher 'bounty' and raiders capturing more 'resources' from factions that would have to be 'richer' to employ so much activity. Incentivizes mercs to act like mercs rather than like gamers looking for exploit or easymode.

As someone else said this will not effect the deadline issue, which I think is easily solved, in this concept, by having it decided by a total win/loss ratio with a margin of 10% in the middle that just means stalemate. (must win by 56% or lose by 44%, otherwise planet is no-man's-land with no bonus to anyone).

Each day a faction wins = one bar on the planet. Stalemate = bars dont change. This slows down CW realistically and gives factions time to organize their defense/offense. The planetary bonus should be not be awarded until the planet is 100% owned. Taking a planet becomes a campaign and a real accomplishment for the community behind it.

As for ghost drops, unopposed Invasions should be filled from the raid queue whom get a 'militia bonus' even if they lose.

proportional Invasion contracts + flexible win criteria should = one side doesn't get a huge advantage just by having more players that play around Primetime EST.

Edited by AeusDeif, 25 December 2014 - 09:23 PM.

[Surn]

2 Suggestions
#1. bots... have PGI make a server or two that just runs a set number of bots that are used to fill ghost drops. Maybe limit it to 4 bots per ghost drop... At least there will be defenders at all times... They can use the trial mechs randomly.
#2. Allow incomplete teams in CW. Now you have a situation where smaller teams can use only 8 players and 4 bots to defend.

This will slow the ghost wins by about 25% and help balance everything.

If you need a programmer with bot experience... I used to run servers in MW4 with bots... the Mechwarrior Registry League had auto reporting servers that could use custom bots based on the league's resource-based database. Group Leaders could spend money to upgrade the bots skill or tonnage on a per planet basis. ... revenue.

...edit..

Come to think of it... maybe we could have an option to sell equipment for cbills.. as it is now.. or DONATE a percentage of that equipment to a planets defense... as players... more revenue.

Edited by MechregSurn, 06 January 2015 - 04:48 PM.