99 replies to this topic

[Menetius]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

The "simple" solution is just make the generator indestructible until after gate is down

The less-than-ten-minute game I just came from had all three gates down within the first three minutes of the game. That probably wouldn't help much, unfortunately...

[Big Tin Man]

Veritae, on 14 December 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Exactly. Mindless zerg rush only wins againt a defender that is not prepared for it. At this point there is NO EXCUSE for not being ready for it, unless you have a mouthbreather pug team that just won't listen. In which case, bad times ahead.

I have a very hard time believing that there is a counter to 4 waves of 12 150 kph lights with jj's. Ttk doesn't work for you.

Last night the best defenses we encountered killed the first wave, but we did enough damage to the generator that a single mech could get it done on the second. This included Davegt's defense (that sounds like C4 you were defending against) which was the hardest match of the night for us.

We did successfully defend against some half hearted rushes, which goes to show that you need to have full commitment from all 12 to make it work. A small handful making an endrun isn't going to work.

[Big Tin Man]

And to the invincible generator idea: OK, we rush with 11 once the king crab opens the other gate. Doesn't change anything.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Menetius, on 14 December 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

The less-than-ten-minute game I just came from had all three gates down within the first three minutes of the game. That probably wouldn't help much, unfortunately...

I think that is my only disappointment with CW. I thought holding the gate would be a bigger deal, its just kind of an early warning system for the first time anyone pushes that gate.

[Big Tin Man]

Added/buffed turrets or generator only hurt conventional attacks. The current turrets fall to 4 or 5 alphas from the passing swarm of lights. Shoot as you pass, it will be dead before the last in line gets there.

[Brody319]

The problem with conventional tactics is you have to kill the enemy so fast.
Average match in non-CW is about 5 minutes.
You get 20 minutes to win.

12 mechs in 5 minutes means if the enemy just has one guy that hides in his last mech you lose because of time. You would have to kill off mechs far far faster than a normal match which is hard when as soon as you kill one he is gonna be back.

[Menetius]

Big Tin Man, on 14 December 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Added/buffed turrets or generator only hurt conventional attacks. The current turrets fall to 4 or 5 alphas from the passing swarm of lights. Shoot as you pass, it will be dead before the last in line gets there.

Forgot to mention tripled health for cannon-defender turrets... sorry about that.

[Big Tin Man]

And that makes turrets stupidly op for any other method of attack, and still doesn't stop the lights from winning on the second wave, so it actually makes the issue worse. We would see more zerg rush.

The problem is simply that the attacking force doesn't have to attack enemy mechs to win. To fix this: MAKE IT A VICTORY REQUIREMENT TO KILL SOME MECHS.

[Khobai]

IMO gate generators should repair and close again after a certain number of minutes

Right now destroying gates just feels like a formality and the gates dont actually do anything. when has an attacker ever failed to open a gate? the gates are pointless and do nothing. they might as well not exist.

If the gate generators slowly repaired and closed again every few minutes it would at least slow down the attackers.

Likewise the cannon generator should slowly repair. That way the attackers have to kill the cannon all at once and cant just send suicide wave after suicide wave to take it out.

Edited by Khobai, 14 December 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[Mystere]

Veritae, on 14 December 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Exactly. Mindless zerg rush only wins againt a defender that is not prepared for it. At this point there is NO EXCUSE for not being ready for it, unless you have a mouthbreather pug team that just won't listen. In which case, bad times ahead.

I have lost to a zerg rush only twice so far, and the first was because the rest of my PUG team decided it was safer to group up away from the cannon.

There was only so much killing I can do in a lightly armed Mist Lynx.

[Viperion]

i say give more hp to cannon and regenerative abilities. In that way we be able to balance it out due zerging.. while zerging still be a viable solution, however it won't be this easy.

I find Cannon somewhat weak, it should be buffed up abit ..

[Vasili]

4 or 5 arty strikes on omega apparently end a match. that's a problem when you consider most drops are going to consist of 48 of them.

[Livewyr]

Veritae, on 14 December 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Pretty easy to defend zerg rush. No thought needed.

4 mechs in a defense drop deck, loaded with an assortment of pulse lasers, lb10x and srms. When the timer starts, head to the gauss platform with the rest of your team. Shred fools as the lemmings charge your position.

Profit.

Get violated by a team of ERPPCs/LLs, LRMs, etc... (

[Big Tin Man]

Vasili, on 14 December 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

4 or 5 arty strikes on omega apparently end a match. that's a problem when you consider most drops are going to consist of 48 of them.

This guy gets it.

Over buffing omega kills all tactics, and gives the defenders an even larger advantage above and beyond choke points, turrets and dropships.

[Sandpit]

Menetius, on 14 December 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

The less-than-ten-minute game I just came from had all three gates down within the first three minutes of the game. That probably wouldn't help much, unfortunately...

that doesn't mean you don't have to defend it.....

10 minutes is not a zerg rush

[ZenFool]

The only defense I've seen(yet) against a well coordinated rush was eject spam. The defenders pushed into the rush to engage targets away from turrets and gen, then ejected as the attackers ran past. The dropship pilots have exceptional aim. It was a slaughter. Just goes to show you people find ways to adapt, give it time.

Btw, the idea of the opposing team taking four light mechs doesn't fly since they could get stuck defending. I've yet to see a game where they were ALL light.

[Mangonel TwoSix]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

The "simple" solution is just make the generator indestructible until after gate is down

I dont think that will work. Zerg rush can take a gate down with one shot per mech while jumping over the gate......

[Galen Shannow]

Talk about having a brain. Watched a pug group fend off 3 zerg rushes of entire clan team on snow map.

On 4th attempt half the pugs decide to fight a lone Direwolf at the wrong gate.

What
The
****.

Edited by Galen Shannow, 14 December 2014 - 05:58 PM.

[Sandpit]

Roknari, on 14 December 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I dont think that will work. Zerg rush can take a gate down with one shot per mech while jumping over the gate......

and? that means they're not able to shoot at you while you shoot them back.
Hell put a timer on the generator so it can't be damaged for the first 5 minutes of the match.

That's the SIMPLEST solution

[Talono]

Some muddy ground at the defenders side of the gates would be a solution, cutting movement by 2/3, or at least 1/2.