176 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Satan n stuff, on 17 December 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

Try killing a medium when he's standing beside a few assaults and heavies and see how that goes for you. Peak and sustained DPS and alpha damage for assaults can be up to 3 times as high as a medium, they're only about twice as tough and much easier to hit even compared to a slow medium. You do the math.

Believe it or not, SnS; I have,. I have more matches than forum posts, lol. Heck was in match with BB WOlfe, Krivvan and a couple others just a night or two ago. Some of us gots some measure of skills too, Bro.

[superteds]

ok if you're stuck in wanting to be slow and hot and all that...there's still no reason to use a GI for this. the 4G is a better choice

[CygnusX7]

I pulled out my 4p for the first time in years this weekend. Even added endo to it.
5mL in the hunch, 1 in the head. 1 sL on each arm, STD275 with 19 DHS....

I got completely obliterated in it.
Compared to a SHD or StormCrow it takes a special man to drive these things.

[Kenyon Burguess]

been using my swayback on vault defense at the b gate. up that little ramp on the left u can peek the gate with little more than the right corner of the hunch exposed. short and painted black all they see is my laser vomit as I roll back and forth melting off their faces. hunchies might not brawl good, but the ambush flank 300-350m works well in the majority of maps in the game atm.

[Bagheera]

Fubbit, on 16 December 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

The Grid Iron is really good now, but the 4J is the sleeper in the bunch for sure.

The damage you can throw downrange from that high, very tight missile hardpoint is ridiculous, Put a TAG in the head, add a couple heat sinks, and have fun. And I generally hate LRMs.

Also, for those concerned with ammo, you can easily stuff 1500++ missiles into it since the 2 lrm 10s aren't very heavy.

I bought a 4J immediately after the hunch re-designs. Absolutely love it as an SRM platform, such a tight grouping. Haven't done a quirk build for it yet, but I've thought about it. It's just too much fun with a std275 4ML the SRM12 ...


Oh, and the 4G with both AC20 modules at lvl5 .... Fastest 20 in the West.

Edited by Bagheera, 17 December 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 December 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

Believe it or not, SnS; I have,. I have more matches than forum posts, lol. Heck was in match with BB WOlfe, Krivvan and a couple others just a night or two ago. Some of us gots some measure of skills too, Bro.

This isn't about skill, it obviously isn't impossible to take out a medium backed up by heavies and/or assaults, it is however very inefficient. Assaults have the most firepower relative to their durability, taking them out first hurts the enemy a lot more. Nobody cares if the enemy has a few mediums running around when the assaults are smoking piles of metal.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Satan n stuff, on 17 December 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

This isn't about skill, it obviously isn't impossible to take out a medium backed up by heavies and/or assaults, it is however very inefficient. Assaults have the most firepower relative to their durability, taking them out first hurts the enemy a lot more. Nobody cares if the enemy has a few mediums running around when the assaults are smoking piles of metal.

Although that is probably more likely, it is far from law.

I watched Bishop clean up house in a Hunchback 4G after the heavies were gone. It was one heck of a site.

Maybe it isn't as statistically likely, but a quick moving Hunchback 4G with that A/C20 was the bane of the enemy team that day.

[Satan n stuff]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 December 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Although that is probably more likely, it is far from law.

I watched Bishop clean up house in a Hunchback 4G after the heavies were gone. It was one heck of a site.

Maybe it isn't as statistically likely, but a quick moving Hunchback 4G with that A/C20 was the bane of the enemy team that day.

Rules, exceptions, etc...
I've done the same with my GI which Bishop insists is too slow to be effective. The GI that has about 20-30% more firepower ( depending on how you're counting ) than the typical 4G with considerably more efficient delivery ( pulse lasers ) at the cost of some range and 20% less speed, both of which are completely superfluous for brawling and deathball tactics.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 17 December 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[superteds]

Satan n stuff, on 17 December 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Rules, exceptions, etc...
I've done the same with my GI which Bishop insists is too slow to be effective. The GI that has about 20-30% more firepower ( depending on how you're counting ) than the typical 4G with considerably more efficient delivery ( pulse lasers ) at the cost of some range and 20% less speed, both of which are completely superfluous for brawling and deathball tactics.

his is however much more mobile, which sort of helps if you have short ranged weapons in a brawl, and allows you to disengage and come back from a better position. It also twists better, which is sort of...important for a hunchback.

I'm happy you've found a build you like, but that doesn't make it a good one.

[Satan n stuff]

superteds, on 17 December 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

his is however much more mobile, which sort of helps if you have short ranged weapons in a brawl, and allows you to disengage and come back from a better position. It also twists better, which is sort of...important for a hunchback.

I'm happy you've found a build you like, but that doesn't make it a good one.

"Much more mobile"? His build is not nearly fast enough to probably avoid what would kill mine, and it's nowhere near fast enough to outmaneuver any assault pilot with their head on straight.
Sure it does twist better, but it also doesn't have a giant missile launcher to put between his AC and the enemy. Seriously the thing is nearly as big as the AC, so I'll gladly take it if it means I can hurt my targets more with every shot and keep my AC/20 longer. I pretty much never lose the right torso first with this build, and I´m pretty much guaranteed to go zombie before I go down.

If a build works against the kind of people I usually play against then yes it's a good build, regardless of whether or not it offends your fast medium sensibilities.

[Bagheera]

Satan n stuff, on 17 December 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Rules, exceptions, etc...

Pretty much the same goes for both of your builds, frankly. While I fall pretty firmly in the 250-275 STD engine in a Hunchie and accept no substitutes, I've seen stock engine Hunchies do amazing things in the right hands. Rules, exceptions, personal taste, playstyle, lance composition, enemy composition, all variable.

IMO, it's easier to play the Hunch with the faster engine, but that doesn't mean every build needs one or that every player will prefer it.

That said, yes, a Speed Tweaked Hunchie with a 250 can definitely out-maneuver the vast majority of assaults given equal pilot skill. You really only run into problems in long corridors like on Canyon or open ground like Alpine, or the large water features with nothing to duck into/out of. Even then if you know better than to just circle until you die you stand a damn good chance of out-maneuvering most larger mechs save for those damn 89kph clan heavies with their rediculous amounts of twist.

Places like the Frozen city, certain parts of River city, certain parts of Crimson, the Hunch can reign supreme. Oh how I wish we had true urban maps ....

Edited by Bagheera, 17 December 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Bagheera, on 17 December 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Pretty much the same goes for both of your builds, frankly.

Both? I only posted one.

[Michael Abt]

Since i am a rather reckless brawler my main Hunchies are all equipped with 250 to 275std engines, they support that playstyle. On long range Hunchies like the GI or 4J a smaller engine is fine as long as you know where to position yourself.

The reason for my success with Hunchies is a small RL quirk... i am left-handed. Going counter clockwise is my natural instinct and therefore the hunch is usually facing away from the enemy by default when i go into infights.

[Bagheera]

Satan n stuff, on 17 December 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Both? I only posted one.

Yours vs. Bishop's - comparatively speaking. Sorry, that was vague, lol.

Just my 0.02 on the engine size in a hunchback debate. There's a guy I've seen drop several times in a stock speed 4G that cleans house every time I see him. It's just a question of the player, like pretty much everything else. Personally, I could never play that way. Frankly, I'm outright terrible in anything slower than 70kph. Not that I am all that great in the first place. Ha!

Edited by Bagheera, 17 December 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Michael Abt]

1st and 2nd place Huncbacks of the chassis challenge (pre-quirk) ran 4P, while i made 3rd with this rather unusual build:

4G LBX10 (*ignore armor distribution)

The beauty of that build is that you have to play exact opposite of the current MWO fighting doctrine. Instead of torso twisting away i chainfire alphas with all weapons, all in the very same group. The target usually twists away, waiting for the fire to stop but i just continue blowing them up. Once they realize they have to fight to my conditions i can aim for whatever weak spot they already have.

That build needs a rather reckless and crazy brawler to work well, suits my playstyle, nothing for the masses.

[N a p e s]

Michael Abt, on 17 December 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

4G LBX10 (*ignore armor distribution)

The beauty of that build is that you have to play exact opposite of the current MWO fighting doctrine. Instead of torso twisting away i chainfire alphas with all weapons, all in the very same group. The target usually twists away, waiting for the fire to stop but i just continue blowing them up. Once they realize they have to fight to my conditions i can aim for whatever weak spot they already have.

That build needs a rather reckless and crazy brawler to work well, suits my playstyle, nothing for the masses.

Such a fun build. This was my main setup for my 4G prior to quirks and it was really fun to blast targets with that LB/MG combo.

[Telmasa]

@ original topic:

I agree that 50% (more if you have module) to rate of fire of Gauss is just ridiculous.


Why take any mech that can mount 2 gauss if you can just take a Grid Iron and pump out the same amount of damage with 1 gauss rifle?

I can understand giving it SOME, SOME buffs, but 50% total is way over the flippin' top.



They need to really put a hard cap on how much quirks can buff a mech, somewhere in the 20-25% range.

[superteds]

Telmasa, on 17 December 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

@ original topic:

I agree that 50% (more if you have module) to rate of fire of Gauss is just ridiculous.


Why take any mech that can mount 2 gauss if you can just take a Grid Iron and pump out the same amount of damage with 1 gauss rifle?

I can understand giving it SOME, SOME buffs, but 50% total is way over the flippin' top.



They need to really put a hard cap on how much quirks can buff a mech, somewhere in the 20-25% range.

because dual gauss puts 30 damage onto one section, and one gauss doesn't?

it's really not OP


that's like 'why take 4xac5 (anything) when you can take a wolverine...

Edited by superteds, 17 December 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[DarthPeanut]

I have to wonder if the people arguing against the quirks... ACTUALLY have one and tried it?

The rate of fire is pretty good but it is just as I said in my original post.

The idea that ANY dual gauss mech can be replaced with a GI is ridiculous. Even the squishy dual gauss jager will take out a GI in a 1v1. They can peek once to put 30 points on your ct or side torso with one shot. You have to peek repeatedly in your GI to do the same. You DOUBLE your exposure with a GI to equal what they can do with one exposure and they put it pinpoint on a location.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 17 December 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Michael Abt, on 17 December 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

1st and 2nd place Huncbacks of the chassis challenge (pre-quirk) ran 4P, while i made 3rd with this rather unusual build:

4G LBX10 (*ignore armor distribution)

The beauty of that build is that you have to play exact opposite of the current MWO fighting doctrine. Instead of torso twisting away i chainfire alphas with all weapons, all in the very same group. The target usually twists away, waiting for the fire to stop but i just continue blowing them up. Once they realize they have to fight to my conditions i can aim for whatever weak spot they already have.

That build needs a rather reckless and crazy brawler to work well, suits my playstyle, nothing for the masses.

Yeah, was too busy seeing what I could milk out of Vindicators to see where I would have placed in that. Judging by my average damage in them (post quirks) and KDr, gonna guess, pretty high.

Always seems party backs top the chart, but gotta admit,t hey are probably my least favorite. Never enjoyed laservomit builds much.