53 replies to this topic

[KrazedOmega]

I was expecting the gates to maybe keep the enemy force out a bit longer than they do now. My initial thought was that the generators that power them were going to be in a different location a ways away from the gate so you'd have to send a couple mechs out to destroy the generator before everyone could just walk in. Having the generator pretty much sitting right on top of the gate as they are now makes them seem pretty much pointless other than to inform the defending team of the initial enemy push.

I feel like you could remove the gates and just have a chokepoint with 2-3 turrets and nothing would really change. As they are now maybe having an option for the defending team to somehow repair the generator and reclose the gate again would be useful. Or another turret or two close to the gates to help defend, though long range fire would take them out pretty fast.

What do you think? Would it be nice to have a gate that actually keeps the enemy team out rather than something that's a mild inconvenience for them.

[MAXrobo]

Yes, please. I wish there was some way for the defenders to actually defend their gates. As it is now the defenders are basically trapped behind their own gates and want them to come down just as much as the attackers do. If there was some way for the defenders to get on top of or over the gates then there would be a reason for them to be there. It makes no sense for the gates to be there as they are now.

[Brody319]

Its really only useless against organized light rushes.

what they should do is move the generators outside of the walls. Have the first wave of defense mechs be placed outside. Then those huge paths would be worth something, the enemy would have to defeat the first wave if they wanted to kill the generators.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

They serve as nice choke points. But you can't defend them so they will be opened, and quickly. That is the only part I'm disappointed with. I was hoping that cracking the base would be more difficult.

[Josef Nader]

Yeah, having a battle over defending the gates would add much needed depth to the defense. Right now they're just pointless. Defenders need to be able to fight for them.

[Helsbane]

It just shows these maps weren't really well thought out. No one would place a wall and gate at a point where it would give them no advantage. That's just stupid. A wall is something you can use as a strongpoint, holding the enemy at bay from the top or nearby high vantage points. Instead, these wall simply trap the defenders inside and give the enemy a place to consolidate and push. Horrible map design overall.

[Squally160]

Helsbane, on 14 December 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

It just shows these maps weren't really well thought out. No one would place a wall and gate at a point where it would give them no advantage. That's just stupid. A wall is something you can use as a strongpoint, holding the enemy at bay from the top or nearby high vantage points. Instead, these wall simply trap the defenders inside and give the enemy a place to consolidate and push. Horrible map design overall.

Jumpjets will free you from your silly walls.

[Mystere]

Allowing the defenders to sally by being able to open the gates should fix that particular issue quickly.

[Saiphas Cain]

All of the gate generator positions force the attacker to expose themselves to return fire if the defender chooses the right hill. LOS means you can lob missiles and artillery at the attackers before the gate is even open. Apart from the zerg jumpers I'm not sure the defenders really need any more help. You have yourselves, the base guns, your consumables, and even the dropships shooting at attackers. The reason the zerg is so effective is it's been pidgeonholed as the best way to avoid defeat for the attackers. Anything slower gets torn apart because the defenders are constantly respawning right where the action is.

[IIIuminaughty]

Im thinking turrets on the way to the gates would be nice to have as well that or another set of gates closer to the orbital guns

Edited by IIIuminaughty, 14 December 2014 - 10:10 PM.

[Adamski]

I cannot believe that people think the defense needs more help. I guess its a matter of how fluid do we want the CW map to be, if we want it to be stale, make defending easier and attacking harder, if we want it fluid, make attacking easier and defending harder.

[ImperialKnight]

Gates are little more than time wasting. Needs more turrets on the gate and turrets after the gate

[KrazedOmega]

Adamski, on 14 December 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

I cannot believe that people think the defense needs more help. I guess its a matter of how fluid do we want the CW map to be, if we want it to be stale, make defending easier and attacking harder, if we want it fluid, make attacking easier and defending harder.

For me it's not as much about making defense stronger, because it can be pretty stong as it is, it's more about the basically pointless gates. I know it's just a game, but no one in their right mind would put that much time and resources into a defensive fortification that can be circumvented with so little effort.

At the very least add 2-3 more turrets to the gate area so more than one mech is needed to disable the generator.

Edited by KrazedOmega, 15 December 2014 - 12:37 AM.

[Punk Oblivion]

So how about instead of targeting the generators, we would have to target and kill the door itself. On the back side of the gates there could be ramps up to the top. Allowing maybe 2-3 mechs on each side to hill hump the top of the gate.

The gate could be doubled/tripled in HP since it will be far easier to hit. And there could be a smaller generator somewhere behind the gates that can be destroyed fairly easily by a ninja light on a suicide mission.

This way it give options to both attackers and defenders.

Defenders can try and hold the gates for a while, or just let the attackers break it down with minimal fighting.

Attackers can beat the doors down, or try to sneak in some lights for a very fast open.

[kapusta11]

Our unit sniped positions from which enemy team can hit generator yesterday, the gates were closed for the first 8 minutes or something and several enemy mechs died trying to destroy the generator, many were almost cored out. L2P maybe?

Edited by kapusta11, 15 December 2014 - 01:29 AM.

[KrazedOmega]

kapusta11, on 15 December 2014 - 01:28 AM, said:

L2P maybe?

15 posts for that to show up. Longer than I thought.

[Lily from animove]

yes they are,most generators are too easy to pick.

yet the gates iself are not a real place of battle before opened- defenders don't have a real position to fight form the gates, only a few rare otherwise you need a light able to cllimb the hill. and yet attackes have not even better.

Kinda makes me wonder who build this kind of nonsense defense, tactical warfare seems to be lostech.

The gates should look like this (just more futuristic):



able to hide a big mech behind the high parts. this would make them a wanted area to defend form. While attackers should ahve some deployed coverage.

and maybe isntead of a generator, the parts of it should be destructable. (But detsructable terrain is atm, irrc not possible)

But right now the gates hinder the defenders nearly as much as the attackers. The Vaults gate on the left side (from attacker view) is basically pointles as a defender because you can not take position at the gate an batlle unles sits open. All its good for is a sniperbattle form the hill in the middle of the defenders map part. Yet those sniping also works for the attackers, meaning the gate rarely has any defensive purposes.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 December 2014 - 01:59 AM.

[Kmieciu]

kapusta11, on 15 December 2014 - 01:28 AM, said:

Our unit sniped positions from which enemy team can hit generator yesterday, the gates were closed for the first 8 minutes or something and several enemy mechs died trying to destroy the generator, many were almost cored out. L2P maybe?

It is possible only on Boreal Vault.
On Sulfurus Rift you can destroy the generator at C3 while rushing the gates. We had 3xTDR-9S with ERPPC and we didn't even stop running. The gate turret did not have the time to open (if you destroy the generator the turret will never open).

The defenders should be able to fire from behind every gate on every map. You just have to raise some terrain to enable that.

Edited by Kmieciu, 15 December 2014 - 02:07 AM.

[Telmasa]

The way I look at it, those gates are never intended to stop mech assaults. They are purely for preventing ground troops, either on foot or track, from just waltzing into the base. (jump-jets and helicopters notwithstanding - though these are probably discouraged by turrets)


The thing that gets me, is that on the hot yellow map, it's easy for attackers to move to certain spots and kill the generators without more than one or two of the defenders at a time being able to do much about it, whereas on the snow map, in complete contrast, the defenders have a very easy time lining up such that any mech poking up in order to hit a generator can be hit by 6+ mechs at any given time.


A little bit of changes in the elevation of the generators on *both* maps (or the eleveation of the terrain approaches to get line of sight on the generators) could go a long way in balancing this out, I think.

Edited by Telmasa, 15 December 2014 - 02:27 AM.

[Saobh]

Well one thing is for sure, in whatever year in the future MW is they sure as hell haven't hear about Vauban fortifications ...

You have to admit that it would be nice to have some maps with some real fortifications system in place and give the attacking side more drops.

Any proper defense should indeed have a defended vs equal # attackers end with the attackers getting their butts kicked, that's why assaulting castles was either done with a vastly superior army or by waiting them out.

have a map with the defenses bases on the star fortification design (just cut in half so that the assault comes from only one side


it makes for an incremental approach with a mix of long range and brawler action. It solves the zerging problem as the approach routes are long and with little cover.

Give attackers more tonnage with a limit of 8 mechs and you should have an even sided battle.

I mean, just look at history for some well designed and interesting places for these types of battles. You don't need to reinvent what has been studied for centuries...

Edited by Saobh, 15 December 2014 - 02:51 AM.