165 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

So 20 FLD damage is better than 50 Hitscan DOT? Ok, I must be a noob.

[salkeee]

IS op tahts why in CW IS like to fight IS more along with Clans fight IS more also.
Ppl do it for balance.

[Lily from animove]

The laser vomit metawolf can fire 3x and then has heat issues being stuck with his both LPL's or some CERML fire.
If you however let it retreat after it is hot to cool down, then you have an issue again of much firepower. If you can however twist away the damage of his first two volleys then it has a low dps left and you can get him down easily as an IS mech.

Many hadrcore IS fans have not touched the clanners, which is their own fault. The best way to understand and use a weakness of a mech is using it yourself. Because unless its a pure dakkabuild, all clanbuilds will run into heat issues even the srm spambuilds. clanners don't have regular lasers, they are stuck with the ER or Pulse versions and so they trade a lot heat for range, while IS has the more heat efficient lasers, you can put out more damage before running into heat issues. But most people I tried to explain that don't even undertsand what heat efficency is, and so they fail to understand the difference. And without that, you will not be able to use your advantage.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 16 December 2014 - 02:31 AM, said:

Here's a question:

What is the House of Lords running?

That's your answer as to what is best in game.

that does not mena IS mechs are crab, because Nova is crab as well and Summoner isn't much of a burner as well. SCR and TBR need still an urgent nerf, they are way too strong mechs. And give the IS a mech having the TBR hardpoints and you have an op mech on IS side as well. I ran a laserbuild Phract and also the 3D phract and they are both able to do very well vs clanners. They are great mechs too

Edited by Lily from animove, 16 December 2014 - 02:47 AM.

[Evil Ed]

What are SJR running and why? What is JagerXII saying on the NGNG podcast over and over? Where did Mercenary Star "winning=fun" coalition go? What mechs are dominating the tier lists? I don't know why this threads pop up over when there is Stormcrows, Timerwolves and Direwolves around. This three mechs together with the equipment they can bring is the only tier 1 medium/heavy/assault mechs.

Second thought - I know. Many of the "competitive" builds are somewhat difficult to master. When the I-wanna-be-a-clanner-because-clan-was-best-in-lore lowskills get into the laservomit timber and starts painting the landscape they of course don't see any OPness in the clan mechs because they are probably doing even worse than in IS mechs. Put the same people in a Formula 1-car, see them crash and when visiting them at the hospital I'm sure you will hear them arguing that the neighbours Volkswagen Jetta is much better car... CW has made this even more clear. Pugs in clanmechs are worse than anything the regular solo queue can produce.

But, as soon as you get average skilled and above, learn how to hold lasers on one component, learns gauss, learns how to bunny-jump with Timberwolf, then clan is the way to go.

Edited by Evil Ed, 16 December 2014 - 03:00 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

kapusta11, on 16 December 2014 - 02:31 AM, said:

So 20 FLD damage is better than 50 Hitscan DOT? Ok, I must be a noob.

It is when you can twist around and turn that 50 hitscan DOT into a mere 7 on a given component while the rest of your friends each plug the enemy with 30 points into the CT at once without him having the option to spread it at all.

And again, at 900 meters.

At 900 meters, those 50+ Clan alphas are more like 20-ish, and I'm being generous. At 900 meters, C-ERML are out of range entirely, so you only have C-ERLL and C-LPL to worry about.

And if the Clans bring ERPPC and Gauss, then most of their advantages get mitigated when running the TDR-9S. The KGC can compete directly with the DWF in this instance, too, bringing that fun 50-point alpha to us dirty IS space-poors.

[The Mechromancer]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 16 December 2014 - 02:31 AM, said:

Here's a question:

What is the House of Lords running?

That's your answer as to what is best in game.

as long as all things are not equal in all aspects, there will always be a degree of imbalance.

I would not put much stock into what one very good group is running.

Edited by The Mechromancer, 16 December 2014 - 02:56 AM.

[salkeee]

Lily from animove, on 16 December 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

The laser vomit metawolf can fire 3x and then has heat issues being stuck with his both LPL's or some CERML fire.
If you however let it retreat after it is hot to cool down, then you have an issue again of much firepower. If you can however twist away the damage of his first two volleys then it has a low dps left and you can get him down easily as an IS mech.

Many hadrcore IS fans have not touched the clanners, which is their own fault. The best way to understand and use a weakness of a mech is using it yourself. Because unless its a pure dakkabuild, all clanbuilds will run into heat issues even the srm spambuilds. clanners don't have regular lasers, they are stuck with the ER or Pulse versions and so they trade a lot heat for range, while IS has the more heat efficient lasers, you can put out more damage before running into heat issues. But most people I tried to explain that don't even undertsand what heat efficency is, and so they fail to understand the difference. And without that, you will not be able to use your advantage.

U know U can use same tactic against IS mechs I m trying to fake shoots from all my enemies and than engage in close or shoot back.
U put womit TBR in ur example well not sure what IS can follow up or chase that heated TBR and fact is that good players dont wander alone so every1 have time too cool off easy.
Bigest advantage and that one is huge about clans are XLs and speed.

Now I m not calling "nerf clans" here since clan mechs are mixed bag there are few that are outperforming anything in game others are kinda balancaed and there are those that need some developer love also.

My solution would be to quirk clans but also to improve some IS armors or internalHP.
Quirking clans would tone all claners to be similar effective and IS durability is needed since they are trully at disatvantage due to clan weapons range,clan speed,target comps all those things together just make tham flat out better.
Thou some more internal HP could be added to both IS and Clan but still slightly more to IS specialy becouze IS XLs are easy to deal with.

[Lily from animove]

wtf is wrong with editing posts? it sometimes east the written stuff and just leaves a quote -.-

Edited by Lily from animove, 16 December 2014 - 03:11 AM.

[Wolfgang2685]

Hi, i'm an IS pilot permanently contracted with Marik.

I own some clan mechs, Elited Timberwolf and Stormcrows. I don't think your mechs are OP at all, I think the people who whine about them are players that don't own them.

Here's what's up: People look on smurfy's and see clan mechs have a bigger "Firepower" number. What they don't know is that all this **** runs incredibly hot. What they don't know is a single 6x CERmlas burst is so hot that you're already at or above 50% heat just from that. What they don't know is that in order for clanners to get high damage numbers, they need to maximize their facetime.... in other words they pop out, barf out damage which takes much longer than IS mechs while hoping to god they go unnoticed, then hide to let heat cool off... yet if you chase them down they're screwed due to heat. The exception to this rule is the UAC5 dire wolf which is a one trick pony.

Expect whining about this until the day mwo dies though... why? Because paper warriors refuse to save the cbills required to actually try the damn mechs to realize you can't get more than two bursts off without loloverheat. They also will never realize that in order to get that "Firepower" number shown on smurfys, you gotta stare directly at the enemy for a longer duration than any IS mech...effectively meaning that torso twisting = less damage.

Oh and the complaints about clan speed? this is from the ******* who don't realize clans NEED THAT SPEED to help them get into surprising positions (or getaway) so that they CAN maintain that maximum facetime to see that cute firepower number from smurfys.


The IS will always be better all rounders, because they can start torso twisting sooner, and they generally have 2 or even 3 types of weapons onboard at any given time to divide mech fighting into burst damage and heat maintenance at any given time (which btw their weapons run a lot cooler!), whereas clans have 1, MAYBE 2 but everything runs damn hot.

TL;DR IS mechs are great as is after quirking, and the only area's that the clans have an actual "REALISTIC" advantage is SRM equip weight (50% of IS standard) and CERmlas range (800 max, but with a lot more waste heat potential and MUCH longer beam duration). Everything else is so rediculously minimal in real situations that whining about it just makes me want to tear my face off.

inb4 "but cerppc splash damage" (5 damage spread to other parts sure will ruin your life, gooby plz)
inb4 "but CERllas range" (Yeah because i totally engage at 1480 range all day for that 1 damage per laser)
inb4 "But clan gauss weight" (Yeah, you still only get to fire 2 at a time, and crab can do that too)
inb4 other petty picking

Edited by Wolfgang2685, 16 December 2014 - 03:09 AM.

[Brizna]

Stop talking about damage as if it's the one thing to rule the battlefield. I play IS and Clan mechs and yes clan mechs tend to do more damage but they splash it all over the place: in many mechs and in many parts of each mech, very conductive to high scores and kill asists(C-Bills) but not so great to get stuff dead.

I can make a similar comparisson between Oxide and TDK too, in Oxide I break 500 damage very easily but don't kill more than in the TDK that strugles to go over 400 damage.

[ZenFool]

Too many people try to outsnipe the clanners without heavily engaging at range. That means that huge heat buildup matters not. Right now they clearly hold a range advantage if you let them because all of them can do long range damage, whereas with your team every build would have to be quirked long range mechs. Overall I think balance is pretty good, people just do odd things sometimes.

[Evil Ed]

Brizna, correction: You splash damage all over the place.

And that's the problem, your skill bias you towards opinions that LRM are OP, top tier clan mechs are in fact fine, Gauss mechanic destroyed that weapon etc. etc., you never get to experience how nice it is to land a full burn of 54 points damage on a single component. Meanwhile the big boys continue to amputate with lasers, shooting lights midair with gauss and slide behind a corner fractions of a second before the first LRM crashes into the building...

Edited by Evil Ed, 16 December 2014 - 03:31 AM.

[Grantham Besat]

How many maps make it easy to stay at range?

[Brizna]

Evil Ed, on 16 December 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

Brizna, correction: You splash damage all over the place.

And that's the problem, your skill bias you towards opinions that LRM are OP, top tier clan mechs are in fact fine, Gauss mechanic destroyed that weapon etc. etc., you never get to experience how nice it is to land a full burn of 54 points damage on a single component. Meanwhile the big boys continue to amputate with lasers, shooting lights midair with gauss and slide behind a corner fractions of a second before the first LRM crashes into the building...

If you are implying I equip LRM5s in the Oxide you are sorely mistaken, nothing else to comment.

[Lily from animove]

Evil Ed, on 16 December 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

Brizna, correction: You splash damage all over the place.

And that's the problem, your skill bias you towards opinions that LRM are OP, top tier clan mechs are in fact fine, Gauss mechanic destroyed that weapon etc. etc., you never get to experience how nice it is to land a full burn of 54 points damage on a single component. Meanwhile the big boys continue to amputate with lasers, shooting lights midair with gauss and slide behind a corner fractions of a second before the first LRM crashes into the building...

No again skillgap on the other side, you can vs a skilled IS player not put all that damage in the same locarion, only a few mechs, like drgaon do allow this, and guess why those were low tier mechs? because thats a mech issue. A twisting phract will have the hitboxes to prevent you alphaing the one section.

[KuroNyra]

Tarmok II, on 16 December 2014 - 01:20 AM, said:

wow sounds like u never had to play against an organiced clan drop urslef

Most of us did. And we prefer facing others clanners than Spheroids.
Heck I am even tempted to join the Inner Sphere just to use my Thunderbolts and Battlemaster in CW.

We do have some very good mech. Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf and Stormcrow.
But if you compare with most of the Inner Sphere Mech with quirck. You are far from being under armed. You even have the advantage on multiple side.

Don't even start about the Clan XL and that bullshit. The Clans Mech already run much hotter than they should (they are actually hotter than Inner Sphere mech while it should be the complete opposite if you look at the Lore) and you are FORCED to face your ennemy if you want to attack him. We do not have arm shield and short duration lasers like you do.

We hold our ground because of theses 3 guys. But it's not like for one Clan Mech viable. There is 3 viable for the Inner Sphere. No no, absolutly not.

Edited by KuroNyra, 16 December 2014 - 04:06 AM.

[Kiiyor]

The 'Sphere has nothing that can touch the Crow, Dire and Timber. Nothing. The TWolf is hands down the best mech in the game, and a Clan drop deck of one MadCat and 3 Crows is godly. If the Sphere had an extra 40 tonnes for their dropdecks, they still couldn't equal that.

In PUGS, where ranges tended to be a lot mroe fluid, things were more even. In CW, especially on the cold map, the Clans are nigh invincible in defense, and a deathball is like a spirit bomb in attack. Unblockable! Massiv damage!

I play as both factions, BTW. The TBolt is deadly in the right hands, but you have to walk through roughly 500m of enemy fire before you can even pull the trigger and scratch paint on a Clan mech. In the right circumstances, the King can take on a Dire and win, but the advantage at all but face hugging ranges lies with the Dire.

[KuroNyra]

Kiiyor, on 16 December 2014 - 04:46 AM, said:

The 'Sphere has nothing that can touch the Crow, Dire and Timber. Nothing.

*Kof*Thunderbolt*Kof*Battlemaster*Kof*Dragon*Kof*Hunchback*Kof**Kof*KingCrab*Kof*Awesome

But I can understand you, why stop buffing IS mech and Nerf Clan mech when your on the "good" side?


For the ranges. Plleeeaaase. Of all the maps, wich of them really give the Clans the opportunity to use it without problem? None.
Heck I already saw King Crabs coming in front of us without a scratch in CW. And so many time that I stopped the count.

Edited by KuroNyra, 16 December 2014 - 05:02 AM.

[Basilisk222]

I get really annoyed when I read anything is OP in this game, it really often isn't.

The stormcrow is an awesome platform, I own 2, and want to master the chassis, it's an excellent all rounder, it's not particularly GOOD any any one thing, except for taking a punch. to it's face.

Which is funny, because people punch it in the face. It has most or all of its weaponry in its arms which aren't really really hard to blow off. But it's OP because it has the ability to run anything, and engage from any range right? Well again, you can't set it up to do one job, it's sort of mandated to be an all rounder. It also can't jump, which is a big problem in a medium. A lot of its long range cababilities would be raised exceptionally by this. So its a 81 kph all round mech.

The IS medium Blackjack, the Shadow Hawk, and the Hunchback are all at least as good as the SC. The hunchback can hit really REALLY hard and survive well, the blackjack has good firepower for its size with good range options, and the Shadow Hawk, a lot of people say is one of the best IS mechs.

The timber wolf is an epic mech but it runs really hot. It cannot sustain fire for extended periods. IS heavies like the CTF-IM can pretty much fire all day. The Catapult K2 with front mounted ac's can do the same, and the top speed of the IS mechs is almost the same as the TWF unless you're brawling, The CTF-3D has JJ's and damn good kit.

I'm not saying that these mechs would beat the TWF 1 on 1. But I'd bank on the IS heavies in CW, why? A clan light and medium can be disabled by an IS heavy and it'll still have the juice to lay into a clan heavy and hurt it, a LOT. I do not engage IS Heavies if I don't have to, they're quick, and they hit Hard, not VERY hard like clanners do, but I'd rather take a huge punch once than a really big one a dozen times.

Assaults on IS are at least on par, they hit almost as hard, they have better defensive systems, and they run cooler. My DWF is set up different than most I'm sure, it's set up for engaging at all ranges and hitting over and over, rather than alpha burnouts. It does well in brawls because I can Keep shooting I might not have as high of a pinpoint alpha, but I can keep firing, I learned that from IS Assault piloting.

Sustained DPS is much more important than overall DPS. IS Does it better. Fact.

[Wolfwood592]

KuroNyra, on 16 December 2014 - 05:01 AM, said:

*Kof*Thunderbolt*Kof*Battlemaster*Kof*Dragon*Kof*Hunchback*Kof**Kof*KingCrab*Kof*Awesome

But I can understand you, why stop buffing IS mech and Nerf Clan mech when your on the "good" side?


For the ranges. Plleeeaaase. Of all the maps, wich of them really give the Clans the opportunity to use it without problem? None.
Heck I already saw King Crabs coming in front of us without a scratch in CW. And so many time that I stopped the count.

And I can understand why you would not want the IS buffed when you are on the winning side.. That argument goes both ways.

This is a meaningless debate in which Clanners are defending why Clan should or should not be nerfed, and IS pilots defending why IS should be buffed.

Let the numbers from CW, which will come out soon, do the talking. Until than, this is silly.