148 replies to this topic

[Master Pain]

I've never understood the hate for LRMs and arty in this game. Both are mostly useless. I rarely ever use either, I rarely ever take more than minor damage from either. They are so easy to avoid. If you move behind cover, no one can see you to fire lrms at you or drop an arty on your head. If you keep moving, no one can drop on arty on you unless they place it infront of you. If it is placed infront of you the red smoke is really easy to see and avoid. DON'T stand still in the open!

[Kraven Kor]

"Good Luck with that."

Artillery is an appropriate weapon to the game, it is lore-friendly, it is canon, and it is "here to stay."

That said, being able to find their artillery position and take it out would be "Nice."

[Kraven Kor]

Master Pain, on 17 December 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

I've never understood the hate for LRMs and arty in this game. Both are mostly useless. I rarely ever use either, I rarely ever take more than minor damage from either. They are so easy to avoid. If you move behind cover, no one can see you to fire lrms at you or drop an arty on your head. If you keep moving, no one can drop on arty on you unless they place it infront of you. If it is placed infront of you the red smoke is really easy to see and avoid. DON'T stand still in the open!

Yeah, not like they can drop arty right behind you, or maybe right in front of you in an atlas that literally cannot turn or move out fast enough once the red smoke shows up.

I'm not for removing it, at all; but to say "oh if you take damage from artillery yer dum nub" is really kind of not helping.

[Master Pain]

I pilot atlas alot, I have 5 of them. I rarely ever take significant damage from arty in them. I try to make sure i am always moving. When i find a spot that I want to spend a minuted at, I move forward and backward constantly. IF some one drops an arty right behind me, I usually spot it when I take a few steps back. The hit i take is almost always minor damage. The other nice thing about constantly moving is that it is harder for people to shoot you with other weapons. Moving targets are harder to hit.

[AnotherFineMechYouveGottenMeInto]

How about if artillery smoke markers have to be fired in an arc like an actual smoke shell? That way it has a more visible smoke trail and takes at least *some* skill to place.

Edited by AnotherFineMechYouveGottenMeInto, 17 December 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[wanderer]

Arty/airstrikes are the 'Mech-sized grenades of many a Counterstrike game of yore.

Why are they needed in CW? Because the game was designed that way, as a constant money sink.

Sadly, the Arrow IV doesn't exist in MWO. If it did, we'd have to have artillery as an organic part of the battlefield, vs. REDSMOKE BOMBARDMENT.

[Mcgral18]

20 shells, 20 damage, 20 seconds


Easy, simple, effective. 20 shells, up from 10, to not quite halve the damage, to 20 per shell. This prevent the instagibbing RNG headshots as well as 1 shotting components from lights. 20 shells means you'll get more hits.

It also increases the current potential damage by 50 points.

20 seconds, double the current 10, still makes them very usable in a 14 minute span, but prevents excessive spam.


It's also a very easy change to make, without any new mechanics being implemented.

[Ursh]

Stopped using them awhile ago. Just seem stupid to me. As ex army intel, I know how long it takes to lay down arty, and the mwo version is lame.

[CDLord HHGD]

Sarlic, on 17 December 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

Correct. It was the plan, but it got scrapped.






There was a whole thread of more then 40 pages i believe when PGI announced (when the publisher was still on board.) the adjustment of the current module system some people really had some great idea's of how it was and should be implented.

See my older thread about the module system: http://mwomercs.com/...se-or-blessing/

Two years ago, that was during the dark days of IGP. Maybe this is back on the table or could be. There's a townhall tonight, put it out there.

[Barantor]

R5D4, on 17 December 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Make it so only light mechs can carry Arty/Air Strikes. See usage plummet
More realistically though maybe it should be limited to lights and mediums since they can fill the "scout" roll.

Or any mech with a command console or the high tier Clan equivalent.

Heavier mechs pay for the use, lighter mechs get it for free.

Or ya know... make certain mechs unique by having it or not regarding their role.

[Kraven Kor]

I could see any of a dozen changes to arty and airstrikes, and agree it is kind of a purposeful money sink. I rarely use it, though I can see it's use in CW and have tried it a few times (note to self: it's an expensive miss.)

But I don't want it removed nor do I think there is any chance they will listen to this suggestion

[Davers]

Sarlic, on 17 December 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

Correct. It was the plan, but it got scrapped.






There was a whole thread of more then 40 pages i believe when PGI announced (when the publisher was still on board.) the adjustment of the current module system some people really had some great idea's of how it was and should be implented.

See my older thread about the module system: http://mwomercs.com/...se-or-blessing/

If they had done it this way everyone would have picked the Commander tree.

[GenghisJr]

I never really liked them either but the changes to the module system forced me to learn to use them, now I think one well placed/timed uav can be a game changer and if i see the enemy clumped thats when I will use arty. I get arty'd less now that I am looking for opportunities for it as I avoid situations where it is likely to be used.
Speaking of arty/air strikes, now that we can only carry one, either or, can we adjust the key bindings so both arty/air strikes can have the same key?

[Piney II]

Arty / air strikes add an uncertainty to the game and need to stay.

They're a great tool to use against the unaware campers and snipers.

[Glythe]

Sarlic, on 17 December 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

I don't want to see them nerfed. I dont want neither to see it adjusted.

I want this whole crap out of the game.

It shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

This debacle cost them thousands of players along with ghost heat, and the PPC era stupidness that was allowed to continue for a year.

But if you must keep them in the game then make them require extra tonnage and critical space in the form of a command console 2.0

Make this an upgrade like "artemis". Make every make that wants it need to pay 250,000 CB.


Let players "choose" if they want to sacrifice weight and space to use air strikes or go vanilla.

Edited by Glythe, 17 December 2014 - 05:47 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Arty / air strikes add an uncertainty to the game and need to stay.

artillery and airstrike should stay in the game, however theyre ridiculously abused at present. I personally feel only players specialized in a "command/support" role should be able to use them.

we need a better skill system that promotes role warfare by dividing players/mechs up into the classic battletech roles. I personally would go with 3 skill trees, each with 2 subtrees to choose between. So you might have command/support, strike/assault, recon/pursuit as your 3 trees. by making it so no one player can do everything you further reinforce the teamwork aspect of the game.

essentially youd pick a role before each game just like you pick a mech. Youd be able use GXP to unlock skills for each of the roles, and youd be able to respec those skills anytime for a nominal cbill or MC cost. You could only play one role at a time but youd be able to switch roles anytime you could switch mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 17 December 2014 - 06:11 PM.

[Escef]

I recall when art/air strikes were first implemented. They sucked, no one used them. 10 damage per shell.

The current implementation is much better, they get used. No sense in a feature no one uses, right?

As for liking or not liking... I prefer to punish campers and the oblivious, I want a tool to encourage dug in enemies to move, I want people that think they're safe to take a beating out of nowhere. I like the strikes. The problem isn't the weapon, the problem is your steadfast refusal to learn how to deal with them. Reminds me of the guy a few weeks back that whined about them after his team got hit with 3 strikes while camping a location. The problem isn't the weapon, the problem was the team was a bunch of fools that decided cowering was a winning strategy.

Glythe, on 17 December 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

This debacle cost them thousands of players ..

Got a source for that, or is that your own conjecture that you believe because you don't like it?

[Macster16]

Only arties I've used were ones I got awarded during Halloween. I MUCH prefer UAVs - a well placed UAV can change a game more than any arty would IMO.

[Sarlic]

R5D4, on 17 December 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Make it so only light mechs can carry Arty/Air Strikes. See usage plummet
More realistically though maybe it should be limited to lights and mediums since they can fill the "scout" roll.

Seems reasonable. But what a out tonnage limit and upcoming CW? 4 lights in solo que is still 4 airstrikes per match on one team. And with CW probaly expanding in the future up to more players i dont like having more light carrying these consumables.

CapperDeluxe, on 17 December 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Remove them? That's silly.

But I don't understand how they haven't increased the timer between strikes yets. That seems like a no-brainer.

I am having the problem each, but each player can equip a arty or a strike. Implent it as intended in role warfare.

Wait... What role warfare?
Problem is exactly it describes. First of there are no clear roles. Second the consumables and the whole module system does not gets any better with just a timer increase.

[Sarlic]

GenghisJr, on 17 December 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

I never really liked them either but the changes to the module system forced me to learn to use them, now I think one well placed/timed uav can be a game changer and if i see the enemy clumped thats when I will use arty. I get arty'd less now that I am looking for opportunities for it as I avoid situations where it is likely to be used.
Speaking of arty/air strikes, now that we can only carry one, either or, can we adjust the key bindings so both arty/air strikes can have the same key?

Well within the current system a solution would be that air or arty can only be placed when UAV is up and within UAV range can be placed.