47 replies to this topic

[Demuder]

Summon3r, on 20 December 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

dood, 1200ton of mech coming at you on sulphur map when you arent running 1200 tons on your side is a whole F*CK of alot of armor to bring down, boreal map would have been different maybe... seriously..... it was impressive.

I was sorry about that comment the second I hit "post". But mainly because of the snide-ness, not because it's wrong really.

My point was that IS can bring a lot more effective close combat armor than Clans who can bring better long range weaponry - albeit mostly hitscan. Given the nature of the objectives and maps who do not favor sneak-peek-snipe tactics but take over the base, I believe things are equal, dare I say a bit skewed for the IS - but mainly only because I suck at sniping and I am completely disappointed by the Clan ACs. Don't confuse a "12v12 deathmatch" with a "12v12 heading for an objective". It is very difficult for the Clans to stop a decisive push from IS involving coordinated heavy and assault mechs. Same goes for IS stopping Clans and IS alike.

All IS - and the Clans - need to do is "TO NOT STOP TO SNEAK AND PEEK AND SNIPE INCONSEQUENTIAL TARGETS". And bring builds and mechs with getting to the objective in mind, not how to farm points in a skirmish type game.

[Demuder]

El Bandito, on 20 December 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yes. Three Crows + Timbie is the best drop deck in general. It is also a very easy to obtain deck. You only have to finish eliting 6 mechs, as opposed to 12 from the IS side, since the Clans only have to pick 2 different chassis, while the IS player usually run 4 different chassis.

Plus, the Clan player will only have to be good at Medium and Heavy class, while in your example, the IS player has to be good at Light, Medium, Heavy and Assault class.

I thought we were talking about which side has an advantage as far as mechs and CW mechanics go, player skill and means being equal. I don't see any arguments about how Clan mechs/decks are so overpowered versus IS mechs/decks though. I could make an argument about how the Clan "best" deck is rather underpowered - in at least half of the maps, but, hey, I won't whine - yet.

Now if obtaining the mechs were a problem (I don't think we are talking about players that joined the game a couple of months ago) how do you propose PGI addressed it ? By nerfng the only two good clan mechs so that IS players can counter them CHEAPLY ? I mean come on... And I think 2 full Clan Chassis are not that much more expensive than 4 IS Mech Chassis - and consider the mastering bundles in the shop as well.

[El Bandito]

Demuder, on 20 December 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

I thought we were talking about which side has an advantage as far as mechs and CW mechanics go, player skill and means being equal. I don't see any arguments about how Clan mechs/decks are so overpowered versus IS mechs/decks though. I could make an argument about how the Clan "best" deck is rather underpowered - in at least half of the maps, but, hey, I won't whine - yet.

Now if obtaining the mechs were a problem (I don't think we are talking about players that joined the game a couple of months ago) how do you propose PGI addressed it ? By nerfng the only two good clan mechs so that IS players can counter them CHEAPLY ? I mean come on... And I think 2 full Clan Chassis are not that much more expensive than 4 IS Mech Chassis - and consider the mastering bundles in the shop as well.

You feel your way about the effectiveness of Clan drop deck and I will feel my own way about it.

However, you are wrong when saying the the 2 Clan mech chassis are not that expensive when compared to 4 IS ones. Once you slap in DHS, Endo--and in many cases, XL engines--those IS mechs are individually almost as expensive as Clan ones.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 December 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[DaManiac]

You guys have all been arguing past what I'm asking.

I just want to see the stats, then we can gripe about why it's the way it is. Until we know what is really going on we can't say. There are always arguments for both sides.

But mech for mech, Clan beats IS 95% of the time. Most of the playing community are pugs, a fun game brings in people, a lousy game looses, them. And the much awaited CW isn't winning my vote at the momment.

[Demuder]

DaManiac, on 20 December 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

You guys have all been arguing past what I'm asking.

I just want to see the stats, then we can gripe about why it's the way it is. Until we know what is really going on we can't say. There are always arguments for both sides.

But mech for mech, Clan beats IS 95% of the time. Most of the playing community are pugs, a fun game brings in people, a lousy game looses, them. And the much awaited CW isn't winning my vote at the momment.

You are quite right and sorry for hijacking the thread, but you know how it goes when it comes to IS vs Clans...

But as I said in a previous post, careful what you wish for. The metrics from CW should be a quite complex set of data, if PGI released all of it unprocessed, they could be opening not one, but a whole box of cans of worms considering how people are not adept at data interpretation. If they processed it first, then it wouldn't be that significant, since you know, once you process the data you can pretty much prove whatever you want depending on how you do it.

I wish I were in your games btw, I keep a 50/50 win-loss ratio with my Clan mechs - though I must admit I never thought to write the stuff down - but it feels pretty equal to me.

[totgeboren]

Demuder, on 20 December 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

That's quite weird, because I find myself, being an exclusively solo dropper clanner, to lose half the matches to IS. The main deciding factor is not the map or attack or defend, it's my team's coordination vs the enemy team's coordination.

I won most games against other IS (back before the patch is was actually possible to get an IS vs IS game as FRR). I have won three games vs clan, two times when me and my friend were joined with a pretty good 10-man, and once vs a clan pug that needed like one second more to finish the generator but the timer was up (so saved by the bell).
Today I played 10 CW games, and I lost 9 of them. I have played at least 30 more games, so I have at best a 90% loss rate vs clanners, but around 33% vs other IS.

Also, take a look at the map, and how many people are queueing. That's not a horde of 12-mans, it's mostly puggers. During my games today I faced one 12-man, the rest were pugs. These were not well coordinated, but they still won with little difficulty 9 times out of 10.

Also, regarding the faction map. Notice how much the clan borders are moving into IS space in just a few days? If it was balanced, the borders would hardly move at all.

Call me bad or whatever, but I know that me and my friend often have game scores in the top 4 consistently, we know the different tactics and we write in the chat to coordinate people. Going from winning more often than I lose to losing 90% of my games day after day tells me something is pretty unbalanced.

Edited by totgeboren, 20 December 2014 - 03:30 PM.

[Rhaegor]

I like stats. I want stats.

[Demuder]

totgeboren, on 20 December 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

I won most games against other IS (back before the patch is was actually possible to get an IS vs IS game as FRR). I have won three games vs clan, two times when me and my friend were joined with a pretty good 10-man, and once vs a clan pug that needed like one second more to finish the generator but the timer was up (so saved by the bell).
Today I played 10 CW games, and I lost 9 of them. I have played at least 30 more games, so I have at best a 90% loss rate vs clanners, but around 33% vs other IS.

Also, take a look at the map, and how many people are queueing. That's not a horde of 12-mans, it's mostly puggers. During my games today I faced one 12-man, the rest were pugs. These were not well coordinated, but they still won with little difficulty 9 times out of 10.

Also, regarding the faction map. Notice how much the clan borders are moving into IS space in just a few days? If it was balanced, the borders would hardly move at all.

Call me bad or whatever, but I know that me and my friend often have game scores in the top 4 consistently, we know the different tactics and we write in the chat to coordinate people. Going from winning more often than I lose to losing 90% of my games day after day tells me something is pretty unbalanced.

You surely understand that map progression is irrelevant. It depends on how many people attacking and how many people defending so much more than what mechs they are using.

I am not trying to invalidate your personal experience - and I am certainly not calling you or your friend "bad", in fact I believe that the game needs very little skill when compared to other games. What I am saying, is that there are Clanners that are losing as many matches as you. I don't see how your experience invalidates mine, which puts my matches on an even win/loss ratio. What you do in a match does not influence your team mates mentality or builds. If they choose the wrong builds, they are going to lose - same goes for Clan and IS. If they decide to duke it out behind rocks, they are going to lose, IS or Clan. My personal experience is that the team who coordinates pushing is very likely to win and the team that can coordinate a defense is also very likely to win. So far, whenever a side manages that, they win - in my experience - be they Clan or IS.

Ofc, maybe you are unlucky and I am lucky, or the other way around. The only way for you or me to get a more "objective" view would be to start playing the other side as well. But even then we wouldn't be able to tell, since we can't influence most of what our team does.

Stats and metrics won't show you either. They can't account for IS players insisting to snipe because they are afraid of taking damage and they can't account for Clan players constantly overheating when trying to brawl. Unless they are very finely and carefully processed they will just muddy the waters even more.