257 replies to this topic

[Aresye]

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

Which is essentially what the 12 mans are asking for so hey there pot I'm kettle.

Given that conventional military doctrine is generally "don't attack a fortified position unless you outnumber them 3:1" I don't think a disorganized pub (or small group) is going to have any sort of significant advantage over any other disorganized pub (or small group) in attacking over defending. Defense is, by its very nature, inherently easier.

What you're asking for is to continually roflstomp the **** out of anyone that isn't a 12-man for easy wins and C-Bills. If you actually cared about integrity, competition, or any challenge whatsoever you'd be asking for a change to it also. As it stands right now, the odds of a PUG group actually successfully attacking against an organized defending 12-man isn't absolutely zero but it's pretty close.

If you want to drop in 12-mans understand that you're going to be dropping against other 12-mans and take the good and the bad. Don't just keep asking to shitstomp pubs and call them whiners.

As it stands, small groups are absolutely****** in every facet of MWO. A 2-4 man group will end up playing against groups of 8-12 more often than not and that isn't fun for anyone except the team handing out the drubbing. I'd rather wait a few minutes longer and have a fun, competitive game against 2-3 other 4-man drops than a short wait time and then endure 8-10 minutes of getting steamrolled over and over.

If you want to participate in a queue that is based around faction warfare and organization, you need to understand that if you're disorganized, it's not going to work out. That's the entire basis of CW. Individuals fail. Organization reigns supreme.

You can either:
1. Organize your pugs by taking command, issuing orders, and motivating the team.
2. Join a unit.
3. Don't play CW.

If you want to play the new game mode/maps, I'm betting PGI will likely release them for the normal group/solo queues in the future. Is that what you're actually wanting? If so, ask PGI if they can do that. If you want to be able to fight over planets, understand that you have to face the planet's defenders, who may or may not be more skilled and/or more organized than your team.

Trying to implement balance into CW drops literally defeats the entire purpose of CW.

[MischiefSC]

Come pug. Just play as a team. That's it. So if you're good with playing as a team and focused on the objectives and not playing like it's Skirmish/puglandia, then come play.

Edited by MischiefSC, 19 December 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[K0M3D14N]

Aresye, on 19 December 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

If you want to participate in a queue that is based around faction warfare and organization, you need to understand that if you're disorganized, it's not going to work out. That's the entire basis of CW. Individuals fail. Organization reigns supreme.

You can either:
1. Organize your pugs by taking command, issuing orders, and motivating the team.
2. Join a unit.
3. Don't play CW.

If you want to play the new game mode/maps, I'm betting PGI will likely release them for the normal group/solo queues in the future. Is that what you're actually wanting? If so, ask PGI if they can do that. If you want to be able to fight over planets, understand that you have to face the planet's defenders, who may or may not be more skilled and/or more organized than your team.

Trying to implement balance into CW drops literally defeats the entire purpose of CW.

No, it doesn't. All I'm asking for is a way for those of us who just want to play with a few friends, enjoy ourselves and have a good time while also being involved in the biggest selling point of MechWarrior Online. That means not getting punished and shitstomped by a bunch of 12-man groups. That means making the gamemode accessible to people outside of the organized 12s crowd because this is the reason people will play MechWarrior Online.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand. 12 mans will play 12 mans whenever possible- anything less will play anything less. This isn't just a matter of balance, it's a matter of making the game mode fun for more than just a few people. I understand it's a team game. I've understood that since day one.

What I also understand is that you can't completely cut out the casual gamers that don't want to join an organization and the people that just want to play with a small group of their friends. I don't mind getting matched up against 12s every now and again but after 8 PM EST every single game I get dropped into is a 12 man vs a PUG that just gets absolutely steamrolled. You can't organize people over text as effectively as you can via chat and even the BEST organized PUG isn't going to stand a chance against LORDS or any of the other big teams.

The point of CW isn't "well 12 man groups crush everyone they come across and have a merry laugh and then start touting 'l2p' because that's not cancer or anything." The point of CW is for people to feel like they're part of something bigger, something on a more massive scale- and the only thing most people that aren't in big organizations feel they're apart of is a big CBill farm for everyone bigger than them.\

All I hear when the big 12s players tell people "well deal with it" is "i don't want my free wins and CBills taken away and you should have to suck it up."

[Carcass23]

Voice coms for everyone is NOT the be all end all answer. The reason for this, has been explained several times over. Unpleasant people/Trolls/Heavy Breathers/Munchers/Bad Music/Kids etc...

What would help? When you jump into CW, unless you are part of an organized unit. You are PLACED in a unit for the duration that you are logged into CW. You know, sorta like the army does? Unlike the army, if you really dislike the unit you are in, you can cycle to the next open one. While you spend time in this unit of players who are all thrown together, fresh out of boot camp so to speak, you can learn who in your unit you get along with and perhaps form a permanant unit? Basically, what I am proposing, is Pick Up Units .. yes... PUU.

In addition, develop the status of Mechcommanders. Those who apply to take command, will lead a unit and have
................................wait for it
Voice Coms! Better to listen to one reject than 12. And if you dislike your commander, get in another unit. Granted, this is an undeveloped idea, but instead of all this crying let's try coming up with a soloution that goes beyond that?

[BlackPhoenix01]

"[color=#CCCCCC]ztac, on 19 December 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:[/color][color=#959595]

12 mans can slaughter PUG's again ... hooray !
Is this what CW was all about ? Certainly feels that way . Still it's only redeeming feature is longer battle time and multiple drops ... other than that it is quite boring and gets very old very fast . 2 years and this is what is on offer?"[/color]

Stefka Kerensky, on 19 December 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

To tag onto that...

Edited by BlackPhoenix01, 19 December 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Aresye]

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

No, it doesn't. All I'm asking for is a way for those of us who just want to play with a few friends, enjoy ourselves and have a good time while also being involved in the biggest selling point of MechWarrior Online. That means not getting punished and shitstomped by a bunch of 12-man groups. That means making the gamemode accessible to people outside of the organized 12s crowd because this is the reason people will play MechWarrior Online.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand. 12 mans will play 12 mans whenever possible- anything less will play anything less. This isn't just a matter of balance, it's a matter of making the game mode fun for more than just a few people. I understand it's a team game. I've understood that since day one.

What I also understand is that you can't completely cut out the casual gamers that don't want to join an organization and the people that just want to play with a small group of their friends. I don't mind getting matched up against 12s every now and again but after 8 PM EST every single game I get dropped into is a 12 man vs a PUG that just gets absolutely steamrolled. You can't organize people over text as effectively as you can via chat and even the BEST organized PUG isn't going to stand a chance against LORDS or any of the other big teams.

The point of CW isn't "well 12 man groups crush everyone they come across and have a merry laugh and then start touting 'l2p' because that's not cancer or anything." The point of CW is for people to feel like they're part of something bigger, something on a more massive scale- and the only thing most people that aren't in big organizations feel they're apart of is a big CBill farm for everyone bigger than them.\

All I hear when the big 12s players tell people "well deal with it" is "i don't want my free wins and CBills taken away and you should have to suck it up."

So what's stopping you from getting your friends together and finding a group in your faction running 8-9 players and sync dropping into the same match? There's plenty of open teamspeak servers (NGNG, Strana Mechty, Comstar) to find groups of any size.

Sorry, but you have all the tools at your disposal to solve your own pain.

Edited by Aresye, 19 December 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[Squally160]

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

So my choices are "drop without friends" or "don't play anything at all because 12 mans are the superior species." That seems reasonable.

or:
Get more friends
Stop being bad
drop in group q because no 12 mans play there anymore.

there are otehr options, you just dont want to broaden your horizons.

[Sandpit]

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

Exceeeeeeept the public queue is also the stomping ground of the big organized 12-mans when you're in a group so that's out also.

sure thing, except it's not

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Or you could just match small groups against small groups and filling the gaps with other small groups or individuals and let the 12 mans fight each other for dominance. You know. Like they used to.

uhm when?
there's never been a "small group queue"
ever

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

Which is essentially what the 12 mans are asking for so hey there pot I'm kettle.

that's strange
i'm not a 12man player
i'm a pug and solo dropper

want to reevaluate your ideas?

[Sandpit]

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

So my choices are "drop without friends" or "don't play anything at all because 12 mans are the superior species." That seems reasonable.

no
your choices are
drop in solo queue
drop in group queue with friends
drop in CW queue
drop in private matches with friends

keep trying to portray your plight as some downtrodden solo or pug that gets tromped every time you load up the game. Nobody is buying it dude.

[MischiefSC]

Strongly recommend syncdropping between factions to fill 12man groups, you get a lot more teamwork that way. Especially when you drop with the same folks repeatedly.

[Sandpit]

K0M3D14N, on 19 December 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

No, it doesn't. All I'm asking for is a way for those of us who just want to play with a few friends, enjoy ourselves and have a good time while also being involved in the biggest selling point of MechWarrior Online. That means not getting punished and shitstomped by a bunch of 12-man groups.

so you really expect us to believe that 1% of the entire player population is stomping you and your buddies every time you play?

You really expect us to believe that every time you load up CW you're up against a 12man?

Dude, if you're going to make claims, at least make them believable and not this anti-12man rhetoric

I'm a solo, I'm a pug, I don't drop 12man. Why is it that I don't get consistently roflstomped playing with a few of my buddies?

[STEF_]

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

You do realize that 12 mans do also fight other 12 mans right? It's not like the game mode is 12 vs pugs only.

Tired of pugging? Join a unit!
Want to keep playing solo? GO PLAY SOLO QUEUE WHERE THERE ARE NO GROUPS.

Why can't people understand that in a TEAM BASED game, communication is vital to your success.



You do realize that pretty much EVERY online game that has VOIP has mute options right? It would take literally like 2 clicks to mute someone instead of 5 minutes to download a VOIP program and set it up. Voice communication is the most effective way to coordinate, not wanting to use it is shooting yourself in the foot

Pretty agree with all this.

First of all, I can say that, yes, many pugs sucks because inside the "pugs group" there are noobs, bad players, etc.
BUT, there are very good players too.
Moreover I saw players that suck even though they are in a team group. I can screenshot this quite every game: a loooooot of group players, when dropping solo, are terribad.
BUT, what make a group better is...ta daaaa....communication. Team play is great.

I guess that even a casual group made of pugs would be less terribad when there will be VOIP.
CW is "hardmode" only for this reason: groups have TS, solo pugs or small gropus don't.

[Carby]

As a filthy mudbloo...err PUG my opinion is but one drop in the ocean and may be meaningless but four ideas:

Idea One for CW matchmaking [Cue screams on penalizing teamwork/coordination etc etc. Hear out the _community_ benefits!]
- 12 vs 12 matches as currently.
- Max group size = 8 (or whatever some cluey statistician decides works)
= Each game with a group likely has some PUGs too although you could have 6+6(Oh noes! A mixed group lance! There might be cross group contamination!) vs 8+3+1. "All solo" teams still allowed of course.

Possible benefits:
- Groups play alongside solo players or smaller groups. This promotes interaction between groups and solos. Honestly, I might join a group if I enjoyed playing with them. Similarly they might want to recruit me if they like what they see.(Unlikely I know. :-) ) Groups vs PUGS seems (according to this thread alone) to be a big barrier in this community. If the group is nice, they will prosper. Hence promoting nice elite players hopefully. (Rather than my current perception of elitists though I know nice ones exist/perception bias/bad minorities with loud voices etc etc etc....)
- Less waiting times for groups.
- "All solo" teams will hit a max 8 man + some pugs maybe. So maybe "All solo" will get some kils at least to lessen the stomp feeling.
- Strategy on the map: the organised teams can be all strategic and **** while us more casual players will see an "Attack" game with 8 people ready to go so I could get a quick game if I join that one! I can jump in, do what I am told and "Support the Cause!" (See Idea two for further possibilities.)
- Group can show off their 1337 skillz/mechs to the PUGS on their side to sate their ego somewhat.

Idea Two: - CW matchmaking
- give solos the option of not caring about the planet or map. If we're filling up the numbers then let us do that anywhere in the valid zone. So they could attack-on-behalf-of/defend anything Kurita for example.(Happens to be what I would want to do.)
- Those who care direct the strategy. Those who just wanna play get to play. Those who wanna group up do that too.

Idea Three: - minor gameplay really
- put in a Zellbriggen/duel mechanism. You can even make it cost people points for "friendly fire" if they hit anyone else in a duel. Apply or not evenly to both Clan and IS or not as you desire. Even just a graphic flag so I know someone is in a duel so I at least have the option of being honorable even though I am a filthy mudbloo...err PUG casual gamer that loves Battletech.
- This would also give those interested parties something to do while in lobby.

Idea Four: - CW matchmaking
- multi-queing. Why can't I say I am interested in "3 of these 4 options", whichever comes first.
For example, I am happy to attack/defend these 3 planets. Whichever one has the numbers to play first gets me. I may well disappear off the list for two other games but those people can have other options running too!
- Or multique differently. I am in this groupsize4 AND that groupsize12 and let the magic of serverside observation line up groupsize4 game finishing times to within 10 minutes so 12's CAN fight other 12's without sitting around for an hour.


Lastly, and I am not positing this seriously as I expect howls of derision hence not counted, use AI to make up the spots.

Hell you could even have an alternative que for bot bashing mission storylines. Coop vs storyline missions would be fun for the filthy masses. I mean, Warcraft with it's "instances"(I have actually never played it though so maybe I don't know ****.) is only making buckets of money for Blizzard....

Have fun is all.
Carby

[Col Jaime Wolf]

ztac, on 19 December 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

12 mans can slaughter PUG's again ... hooray !
Is this what CW was all about ? Certainly feels that way . Still it's only redeeming feature is longer battle time and multiple drops ... other than that it is quite boring and gets very old very fast . 2 years and this is what is on offer?

i am relishing the stomping of said 12 mans. 0_o

[Dagadegatto]

Rhaythe, on 19 December 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Don't think of yourself as a PUG player in CW. Think of yourself as a smarter NPC.

Mwahahahahah! Love it.

Darth Futuza, on 19 December 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

I don't really want voip added to be honest. There's far better things PGI could be working on and I don't want to be forced to listen to 12 year old whine in order to communicate with my team. This isn't x-box live and I like it. If people want to use voip, teamspeak, mumble, etc... all work great and it really isn't that hard to use. It takes about 4 minutes to setup (20 if you actually read the user agreement), and 5 to get your mic settings right and then your good to go.

+1 though I would love to see a commandwheel or some other similar coordination tool.

[Khzorran]

Linkin, on 19 December 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Edit- people keep saying that solo players aren't part of a team, I'd like to point out that as soon as you enter a match you are on a team, even as solo, its all about what you do to coordinate with your temporary team. Some are bad some are good, such is PUG life.

In the literal sense yes you're on a team. But no, you're really not.
If you want the benefits of a team then you got to join a unit, simple as that.

[Scratx]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

That's what the thread is about in the first place. Took you long enough to figure it out.

It's not possible to have a matchmaker that matches based on skill with queues as small as the ones we get in CW.

The most that might be possible would be to try to match bigger groups against bigger groups, but even that is going to run straight against that wall called "population level". It won't work. Even the group queue has problems and it has a LOT more people in it than any planet.

There are probably ways to improve the situation (for example, maybe there could be additional queues that act as a "any planet, for attack" or "any planet, for defense" queue to fill in), but you will never have queues big enough to make skill balancing work.

Now, if MWO gets released on Steam and we suddenly get 4x or more a population boost... but I wouldn't hold my breath. That move is at least 6 months away if it happens.

Felix7007, on 19 December 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Why do people insist on penalizing cooperation in a multiplayer game?

Teamwork is OP, nerf Teamwork.

Sandpit, on 19 December 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

Some people just want everything catered specifically to them.

CW is great thus far IMO

Not flawless by a long shot but agreed. It's different than what we had so far, it's fun and it really works.

Aggressor666, on 19 December 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

oh I'm sooo sorry I wanted to play new maps / modes

It is possible it might be made available outside CW at some point.

[Felix7007]

I don't get why companies don't just make a TS server and make users and send them a link.

Edited by Felix7007, 22 December 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[Revis Volek]

ztac, on 19 December 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

12 mans can slaughter PUG's again ... hooray !
Is this what CW was all about ? Certainly feels that way . Still it's only redeeming feature is longer battle time and multiple drops ... other than that it is quite boring and gets very old very fast . 2 years and this is what is on offer?

Because EVERY OTHER mode, mech, quirk, etc WAS MADE with folks who cant tie their own shoes in mind. I am so tired of reading this BS.....i guess i need to just stay away from these forums for a while.

THERE IS NO ELO IN CW! YOU ARE FACING THE BEST PILOTS THE GAME HAS TO OFFER CONSISTENTLY!

Go home if you cant play ball with the big boys.

Sandpit, on 19 December 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

so you really expect us to believe that 1% of the entire player population is stomping you and your buddies every time you play?

You really expect us to believe that every time you load up CW you're up against a 12man?

Dude, if you're going to make claims, at least make them believable and not this anti-12man rhetoric

I'm a solo, I'm a pug, I don't drop 12man. Why is it that I don't get consistently roflstomped playing with a few of my buddies?

We dont even Drop in 12's in CW. We only need 8 to stomp 98% of the opponents we go up against. I have FACED ONE (1) FULL 12 MAN in the 12 or so days of CW. So i dont know where all these teams just suddenly came from. There is nto many 12 mans and like i said, most of us have adopted to dropping with 8 because that's all you need to stomp uncoordinated Puggies.

Harsh, yea i know. But this is what i see. 12 terribads on a team all running in different gates, suicide runs, Jumping over gates alone! (Into the waiting arms of my S-SRM MDD!) The big difference between our teams and theirs is comms nothing more and nothing less.

Teamwork is OP, Comms are OP.

Edited by DarthRevis, 22 December 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[pwnface]

DarthRevis, on 22 December 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Because EVERY OTHER mode, mech, quirk, etc WAS MADE with folks who cant tie their own shoes in mind. I am so tired of reading this BS.....i guess i need to just stay away from these forums for a while.

THERE IS NO ELO IN CW! YOU ARE FACING THE BEST PILOTS THE GAME HAS TO OFFER CONSISTENTLY!

Go home if you cant play ball with the big boys.




We dont even Drop in 12's in CW. We only need 8 to stomp 98% of the opponents we go up against. I have FACED ONE (1) FULL 12 MAN in the 12 or so days of CW. So i dont know where all these teams just suddenly came from. There is nto many 12 mans and like i said, most of us have adopted to dropping with 8 because that's all you need to stomp uncoordinated Puggies.

Harsh, yea i know. But this is what i see. 12 terribads on a team all running in different gates, suicide runs, Jumping over gates alone! (Into the waiting arms of my S-SRM MDD!) The big difference between our teams and theirs is comms nothing more and nothing less.

Teamwork is OP, Comms are OP.

Are you talking about us? Because I'm pretty sure we fought you guys twice last night.