257 replies to this topic

[xMEPHISTOx]

Solo players/pugs should be happy that they're included at all, in a lot of games ie. WoT if your not affiliated with a organized unit you do not even get to participate in the 'team based' clan wars. So again, be happy you were thought of in a team based game in a team based mode ie. CW's.
Not only that but I would think that pug battles now have less 12 mans so you have that arena/game mode for soloing. But please stop crying and wishing away those of us who desire unit play.

[Linkin]

Carcass23, on 19 December 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Then CW is not for you. That's what the solo que is for.

I may be misreading your reply, but I wanted to jump in with my 2 cents.

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

You do realize that 12 mans do also fight other 12 mans right? It's not like the game mode is 12 vs pugs only.

Tired of pugging? Join a unit!
Want to keep playing solo? GO PLAY SOLO QUEUE WHERE THERE ARE NO GROUPS.

Why can't people understand that in a TEAM BASED game, communication is vital to your success.

Just pointing this out, solo has every right to play CW, no need to go back to anything if they don't want. Yes, solo and small groups have it a bit harder, however, this is a MAJOR pillar of the game many of us have been waiting years for. Solo and small groups need to get better communication tools in game, IE command wheel, or get used to getting better with what we have. I also play solo and small group as a point of reference for my points.

One thing we all should keep in mind, this is beta, there will be changes. Constructive suggestions/criticisms are what will improve the game.

Edit- people keep saying that solo players aren't part of a team, I'd like to point out that as soon as you enter a match you are on a team, even as solo, its all about what you do to coordinate with your temporary team. Some are bad some are good, such is PUG life.

Edited by Linkin, 19 December 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[Darth Futuza]

Linkin, on 19 December 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Just pointing this out, solo has every right to play CW, no need to go back to anything if they don't want. Yes, solo and small groups have it a bit harder, however, this is a MAJOR pillar of the game many of us have been waiting years for. Solo and small groups need to get better communication tools in game, IE command wheel, or get used to getting better with what we have. I also play solo and small group as a point of reference for my points.

A better and much improved battlegrid would be wonderful. /wishful thinking

[oldradagast]

Revorn, on 19 December 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Nice to see this Topic again.

May i remind the Group Players at the last Time we had this Disscussion. It was something around 84 % Solodrops. Maybe this Time its a lower Number, but behind the Number lies much Money.


Be sure PGI dont let this Money go away for long.

A good point to keep in mind when the tryhards tell the majority to "get lost."

That being said, the problem isn't teamwork - this game needs more of that fully integrated at all levels - but the overall pointlessness of grossly unbalanced matches in CW.

Nobody is saying "12-mans shouldn't be allowed to play CW" or "I hate teamwork," but they are raising a valid question: why are random PUG "teams" being dropped against coordinated full groups in CW?

There has to be a better system to at least TRY to keep the skill-levels and ability to coordinate remotely comparable or what's the point to CW battles? Maybe some people get off to crushing random PUG's as part of a real team, but that's hardly a valid way to run a game and given the odds of scaring away those potential customers who just got crushed, it really doesn't serve PGI's interests to encourage such behavior.

Again, it's easy for the dedicated groups to ignore the issues and tell everyone else to get lost, but that ignores the issues and isn't a mature or logical response... unless they *like* crushing uncoordinated teams... and if that's true... well, that's just sad, really.

Edited by oldradagast, 19 December 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[pwnface]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Btw, the attack and defend mode is working better for Pug vs Pug than the deathmatch mode. The latter one is, and has always been, an uncontrolled chaos. Compared, i've seen a lot single players actually giving and following advice!

So don't pretend this isn't a good mode for pugs. The only issue is matchmaking, causing 15 minutes of waiting and then 15 minutes of dying for no good reason.



You're really making a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid the actual issue. It's about larger, experienced premades being constantly set up against pugs.
And here is it again, the hypocrisy i'm talking about:
The point of TEAM BASED games is to play against other TEAMS, so the teamwork is a fight between two equal forces. In this situation, teamwork developes complexity and gets interesting. Planning and adaption becomes an neccessity.

Stomping pugs, whuich have inherently less coordination, is not what teamwork, or Community Warfare, is about. This isn't about PUGS and Premades, both can exist just fine in CW, it's about MATCHMAKING.

How about we just not allow solo players to do CW? The focus of Community Warfare has always been group vs group play, if you can't hack it don't queue up. There isn't going to be a matchmaker in Community Warfare as long as players are allowed to choose what planet to attack/defend and having those choices is exactly what CW should be about.

I'd be happy if they made an "Invasion Drop" game mode for solo/group players that have no bearing on actual community warfare. If the population could support it, this would get rid of all the solo queue pug players who are QQing about 12mans.

[Satan n stuff]

Rhaythe, on 19 December 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

Don't think of yourself as a PUG player in CW. Think of yourself as a smarter NPC.

Smarter?

[Deathlike]

Darth Futuza, on 19 December 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

A better and much improved battlegrid would be wonderful. /wishful thinking

My preference is a commo rose first, so that translations of common commands can be done through the community and improve teamwork.

Trying to communicate with other teams that don't naturally speak the same language with you on VOIP is asking for trouble.

[Squally160]

Linkin, on 19 December 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Edit- people keep saying that solo players aren't part of a team, I'd like to point out that as soon as you enter a match you are on a team, even as solo, its all about what you do to coordinate with your temporary team. Some are bad some are good, such is PUG life.

That it is, but the major issue here, is ocming in and complaining about temp teams, rather than taking steps to form a more permanent team.

Dont like it? puglandia is over there.

[pwnface]

oldradagast, on 19 December 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Nobody is saying "12-mans shouldn't be allowed to play CW" or "I hate teamwork," but they are raising a valid question: why are random PUG "teams" being dropped against coordinated full groups in CW?

There has to be a better system to at least TRY to keep the skill-levels and ability to coordinate remotely comparable or what's the point to CW battles? Maybe some people get off to crushing random PUG's as part of a real team, but that's hardly a valid way to run a game and give the odds of scaring away those potential customers who just got crushed, it really doesn't serve PGI's interests to encourage such behavior.

It would be awesome if players could see which units/players are defending or attacking a particular planet. Then solo players could see "hey thats a 12man that I don't want to play against" and choose a different planet to engage in.

I really don't think planetary choices should be taken away from pilots though, and that is the ONLY way you could implement a matchmaker in CW.

Edited by pwnface, 19 December 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[Carcass23]

Linkin, on 19 December 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

I may be misreading your reply, but I wanted to jump in with my 2 cents.

Just pointing this out, solo has every right to play CW, no need to go back to anything if they don't want. Yes, solo and small groups have it a bit harder, however, this is a MAJOR pillar of the game many of us have been waiting years for. Solo and small groups need to get better communication tools in game, IE command wheel, or get used to getting better with what we have. I also play solo and small group as a point of reference for my points.

One thing we all should keep in mind, this is beta, there will be changes. Constructive suggestions/criticisms are what will improve the game.

Edit- people keep saying that solo players aren't part of a team, I'd like to point out that as soon as you enter a match you are on a team, even as solo, its all about what you do to coordinate with your temporary team. Some are bad some are good, such is PUG life.

I am a solo player. I play with the team I am on. If you joined CW just just to shoot stuffs, you are missing the point entirely. CW stands for COMMUNITY warfare. It doesn't stand for INSTANT ACTION.

[Averen]

oldradagast, on 19 December 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

There has to be a better system to at least TRY to keep the skill-levels and ability to coordinate remotely comparable or what's the point to CW battles? Maybe some people get off to crushing random PUG's as part of a real team, but that's hardly a valid way to run a game and give the odds of scaring away those potential customers who just got crushed, it really doesn't serve PGI's interests to encourage such behavior.

Thanks, that's what i'm talking about. Pug's are always a bit random, I have no problem with having harder matches at times. But there is a difference between fighting an uphill battle and a classic roflstomp, where the enemie's clanmechs are just camping in front of our landing zone.

[Master Pain]

VOIP AND MUTE. The solution to all our problems.

[pwnface]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Thanks, that's what i'm talking about. Pug's are always a bit random, I have no problem with having harder matches at times. But there is a difference between fighting an uphill battle and a classic roflstomp, where the enemie's clanmechs are just camping in front of our landing zone.

How do you think non-competitive 12man groups feel when they are matched against a 12-man HoL or SJR group? **** happens man! Pug/solo players will always be the lowest on the totem pole, there isn't a way around that.

[Roadbeer]

ztac, on 19 December 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

12 mans can slaughter PUG's again ... hooray !
Is this what CW was all about ? Certainly feels that way . Still it's only redeeming feature is longer battle time and multiple drops ... other than that it is quite boring and gets very old very fast . 2 years and this is what is on offer?

Something, something, evil premade boogeyman, something, something.

[Squally160]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Thanks, that's what i'm talking about. Pug's are always a bit random, I have no problem with having harder matches at times. But there is a difference between fighting an uphill battle and a classic roflstomp, where the enemie's clanmechs are just camping in front of our landing zone.

Those mechs got there because you all failed to be a unified team.

[GeistHrafn]

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Want to keep playing solo? GO PLAY SOLO QUEUE WHERE THERE ARE NO GROUPS.

I call BS on this particular part of your post. To say there are no groups in solo queue is a bold faced lie. I faced a 12 man last night. Concise points otherwise, but this comment, how did you say it? "is like shooting yourself in the foot".

[Linkin]

Squally160, on 19 December 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

That it is, but the major issue here, is ocming in and complaining about temp teams, rather than taking steps to form a more permanent team.

Dont like it? puglandia is over there.

I agree- complaining about it on the forums won't help. Some of us just suck it up and do what we can during drops with what we have. For the record I am enjoying the heck out of CW so far, losses, wins, and all. I am ecstatic to have battles with more meaning and can't wait to see how much more depth develops.

Carcass23, on 19 December 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I am a solo player. I play with the team I am on. If you joined CW just just to shoot stuffs, you are missing the point entirely. CW stands for COMMUNITY warfare. It doesn't stand for INSTANT ACTION.

I think you are agreeing with me? Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to anyone looking for instant action, but those solo/small groups which are interested in fighting battles which matter a bit more, instead of just death match and CTF 24/7.

[Aresye]

When we come across an enemy team of pugs, we usually offer Zellbrigen or 1on1 fights at the start. Usually this is met with a response along the lines of, "F*** you wolfie furry fa**ots 12man!!"

At that point we'll usually just obliterate the opposition without mercy. Then they go crying about it after game saying, "Not fair, you had a 12man!"

Courtesy goes a long way. Doesn't matter if it's pugs, small groups, or organized 12mans. If you're solo pugging, stop looking at 12mans as the big bad boogieman. With the exception of a few groups, most large teams don't like stomping the ever loving crap out of solo puggers.

You don't have to be miserable. Ask a large group on your team if you can join their comms, find a unit to sync drop with during the day, or just simply join a unit. Be friendly and courteous to the enemy team, treat them the same you would like to be treated, congratulate them on a win, and don't be a sore winner/loser.

Can't really say I can sympathize with the solo vs premade argument when the most common solo players seem to make no effort to help themselves, and/or behave in a childish manner. A lot of the pain they complain about is caused by none other than themselves.

[Deathlike]

Rhazien, on 19 December 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I call BS on this particular part of your post. To say there are no groups in solo queue is a bold faced lie. I faced a 12 man last night. Concise points otherwise, but this comment, how did you say it? "is like shooting yourself in the foot".

I think he meant solo queue in the regular part of MWO (non-CW).

There are no groups in the solo queue.

The closest thing you'll get is the occasional intentional or unintentional drops of 2 or more players from the same unit in the solo queue.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 December 2014 - 02:27 PM.

[Squally160]

Rhazien, on 19 December 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I call BS on this particular part of your post. To say there are no groups in solo queue is a bold faced lie. I faced a 12 man last night. Concise points otherwise, but this comment, how did you say it? "is like shooting yourself in the foot".

There is no solo q in CW.

Puglandia is the solo q, and you will never face even a 2 man there. so herp a derp, dont be dumb.

Edited by Squally160, 19 December 2014 - 02:26 PM.