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Ultimate Mech Discussion Thread

BattleMech Balance

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#1061 Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

I hope they don't move the hardpoints of the SDR-5V. Both energy hardpoints should be in the CT, cause a wounded Spider, who loose its arms, left and right torso is still able to fight with its full strength.

View PostJason1138, on 01 December 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

... but what will any of them do that a jenner doesn't do already?


The Jenner doesn't have ECM and and a JR7-F for an example is nothing but a fleeing chicken without arms. Maybe the Spider gets ECM? Currently we see full armed and armored Jenners with max jump capability (using one single JJ), cause jump jets aren't fixed. With fixed JJ's, you'll need 4 to 5 JJ's to get the current jump capability. Future Jenners will have less armor or less weapons if they want the max jump capability. The advantage of the Spider 5V is that it is able to run 130 km/h without using expensive and fragile XL engines and all variants have JJ's. I'm sure the Jenner will be the best light mech, but i bet the Spider will be a funny mech to pilot. A mech for pilots who seek the challenge.

#1062 shennanigans

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:25 PM

:) I still think they should add the Piranha mech. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

#1063 Odanan

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

View PostThe Birdeater, on 02 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

I'm sure the Jenner will be the best light mech, but i bet the Spider will be a funny mech to pilot. A mech for pilots who seek the challenge.


This is a competitive game. If the mech is a "challenge" it means "it sucks" and no one will use it.

#1064 Odanan

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:23 PM

Seriously, if the devs make the Spider with only 2 energy hardpoints in the Center Torso they are out of their minds.

View Postshennanigans, on 02 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

:) I still think they should add the Piranha mech. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha


Sorry, but no. The Piranha has 1 timewise variant only (if it is timewise at all - some sources say 3051, some say 3058). The other 3 might never catch with the timeline.

Piranha 2: 3067
Piranha 3: 3068
Piranha 4: 3072

No, the Piranha will never be in MWO.

#1065 Phoenix Branson

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

Wednesday December 5, say hi to the Orion (PGI did not announce last Wednesday due to holidays).

Side note, Flea and Blackjack are missing from http://mwomercs.com/game/battlemechs

Posted Image

Edited by Maverick01, 02 December 2012 - 08:33 PM.


#1066 Burning Chrome

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:21 AM

View PostMaverick01, on 02 December 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Wednesday December 5, say hi to the Orion (PGI did not announce last Wednesday due to holidays).

Side note, Flea and Blackjack are missing from http://mwomercs.com/game/battlemechs

Posted Image

One of the WORST Orion images I have ever seen.

#1067 Throbbinwood

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

View PostBurning Chrome, on 03 December 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

One of the WORST Orion images I have ever seen.


My god is it hideous.

#1068 Zervziel

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:06 PM

Yeah, that's a pretty derpy looking Orion. I'm sure PGI would redesign it to look badass, but I still hoping they'll step away from the constantly requested mechs we've seen before and bring back some of the more obscure but still awesome designs.

#1069 Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

View PostMaverick01, on 02 December 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Wednesday December 5, say hi to the Orion


Do you really? ;)

I wouldn't count on it. I'll believe it when it is definitely announced as BattleMech Nr. 19. It could still be a Flashman or Black Knight*. What's about THIS? FD has already made a redesign of an "legal" reseen Marauder some time ago.

Posted Image

Maybe it will no be a 75 ton mech. Maybe it will not be an heavy weight at all. It isn't the first time that PGI has changed the order. It could be everything else... The Orion is just a d..n fugly mech with nice and useful loadouts that fits to the timeline. Nothing more. Maybe it will be the next mech, but if not, i can deal with it.

*Yes I know...lightbulb...not enough variants...looks like Boba Fett bla blub, but who the heck cares? Just a few variants of the RARE Highlander available, but it's already announced. Just remember the strange CTF-IM "Ilya Muromets" and "Gregori Kovalenko". Did they ever existed in the BT universe? Right! NO! We shouldn't talking too much about canoncial things. Everything can happen. Whether we like it or not. Amen!

Edited by The Birdeater, 03 December 2012 - 06:13 PM.


#1070 Jack Gallows

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostThe Birdeater, on 03 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Maybe it will no be a 75 ton mech. Maybe it will not be an heavy weight at all. It isn't the first time that PGI has changed the order. It could be everything else... The Orion is just a d..n fugly mech with nice and useful loadouts that fits to the timeline. Nothing more. Maybe it will be the next mech, but if not, i can deal with it.


It can't be a light nor a medium, basing this off the idea that they've got 5 of each already announced and need one more heavy and one more assault. I think they'll chill at 20 'mechs overall for a while, if only to get caught up with what's actually in game. They'll go beyond that, but I think they're going to drastically slow 'mech releases once the first 20 hit, at least till they can get what's already been promised in and working.

View PostThe Birdeater, on 03 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

*Yes I know...lightbulb...not enough variants...looks like Boba Fett bla blub, but who the heck cares? Just a few variants of the RARE Highlander available, but it's already announced. Just remember the strange CTF-IM "Ilya Muromets" and "Gregori Kovalenko". Did they ever existed in the BT universe? Right! NO! We shouldn't talking too much about canoncial things. Everything can happen. Whether we like it or not. Amen!


Highlander meets the 3 variant minimum, some others don't or don't really offer any variation of their weapons. Black Knight and Flashman are basically all laser variants, zero changes almost. Seeing as Russ Bullock is involved, who else to create a piece of non cannon then the man who's been with Battletech for so long? As long as they can make it fit with canon (or close enough without big retcon type stuff), I don't mind them adding named 'mechs to the roster. I'm almost certain we'll also never see a single Reseen/Unseen, simply since PGI will want to avoid ANY semblance of legal trouble this early into development.

Reseen/Unseen is a battle for after the game's established, and I'd think that TOPPS probably has to ok/go after certain legal issues seeing as they own the IP.

#1071 Odanan

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:29 AM

View PostThe Birdeater, on 03 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

I wouldn't count on it. I'll believe it when it is definitely announced as BattleMech Nr. 19. It could still be a Flashman or Black Knight*.


This again?

View PostThe Birdeater, on 03 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

What's about THIS? FD has already made a redesign of an "legal" reseen Marauder some time ago.


There is no reason for us to think any of the unseen/reseen will be ever added, so stop right there.

View PostThe Birdeater, on 03 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

The Orion is just a d..n fugly mech with nice and useful loadouts that fits to the timeline. Nothing more. Maybe it will be the next mech, but if not, i can deal with it.


"ugly mech with nice and useful loadouts that fits to the timeline" -> you said it all.

PS: ugly mechs are the best.

#1072 Valkyrie Red one

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:53 AM

So ive read this in the first post

"Most of the MW4 and MW4M mechs will not be in the game because they will exist only in 10 years or more. Uziel, Thanatos, Hellspawn, Argus, Osiris, Chimera, Fafnir, Mad Cat MK II and other favorites may never show up in this game (It's like wanting a F4 Phantom in a WW2 game)."

well excuse me, but does it even matter? its a F2P game. is it even canon or is there anything in the way of the "plot", besides what little there is that is just to excuse planting a shell up the metal crotch of an atlas, to prevent the devs from introducing future mechs in the game?

PS: as for the modern vs WWII go ask eagle dynamics :lol:

#1073 Adridos

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:10 AM

View PostValkyrie Red one, on 04 December 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

well excuse me, but does it even matter? its a F2P game. is it even canon or is there anything in the way of the "plot", besides what little there is that is just to excuse planting a shell up the metal crotch of an atlas, to prevent the devs from introducing future mechs in the game?



No, nothing at all.

Just give me one of the ***** era Celestials and watch as I solo premade 23 man teams like it was nothing...

Those mechs are simply too powerful and use tech beyond imagining of the current game.

#1074 Valkyrie Red one

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:38 AM

View PostAdridos, on 04 December 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:


No, nothing at all.

Just give me one of the ***** era Celestials and watch as I solo premade 23 man teams like it was nothing...

Those mechs are simply too powerful and use tech beyond imagining of the current game.


i can't see why the era had to be, and stay, at an older time. it could move forward as the game gets updated, without needing ten actual years. also rebalancing newer mechs to fit old tech while maintaining individual characteristics is a viable option i believe.

#1075 Jack Gallows

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:37 AM

View PostValkyrie Red one, on 04 December 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:


i can't see why the era had to be, and stay, at an older time. it could move forward as the game gets updated, without needing ten actual years. also rebalancing newer mechs to fit old tech while maintaining individual characteristics is a viable option i believe.


We don't know how they're going to update the timeline, PGI has to be aware of the great leaps in time that'd take to get to certain time periods, but the one they picked right now has one of the biggest impacts in Battletech history. We get some light House fighting, and then the imminent Clan Invasion which was HUGE. Follow that by other conflicts then the FEDCOM Civil War, and there's going to be plenty of things to do. Yea, there's a big time gap between now, Tukayyid, and then the FEDCOM War, (and let's not forget Capellan's fighting St. Ives,) but they haven't announced if they're going to do small time jumps or not. I'd assume they will, after they feel we've had a good amount of time playing community warfare in one spot.

So, basically I see it going as thus. We spend about 7-8 months playing MW:O as House vs. House, and then they'll do a big Clan Invasion/update/event (August, 3049) and it'll be awesome, we'll see. After that, one and a half years(ish) of House vs. Clan, House vs. House, and Clan vs. Clan until Tukayyid (May 1, 3052) hits. Hopefully we'll see a huge tourney/event thing when this hits too, to help reflect that huge turning point in the Btech universe. (Tukayyid lasted around 19-20 days.) So, right now they've got plenty of content/things to do for the next two years for MW:O. After all that, they can decide to hop the timeline a bit to another point of action, or keep us there for a bit until they decide to move to something like the FEDCOM war.

As for just jumping from an older time to a newer one, then everyone has super tech blasting everyone down in 3 seconds with an alpha strike. Think really fast of how MW:O hardpoints are going to work...then consider this. We'll start with Clan 'mechs, take the Daishi as a "prime" example...it('s primary configuration, if you didn't get the joke) has 8 Energy Hardpoints, 2 Ballistic, and one Missile. All Clan 'tech is lighter and takes up less space then IS and does more damage. The Nova has 12 laser hardpoints in it's base config, and that 'mech is 50 tons. Alt Config B of the Storm Crow has an ULTRA AC/20, and six ER Medium lasers, 1 ballistic and six laser hardpoints. Both the Storm Crow and Nova have such high base speeds that they'll be able to move as fast as any light 'mech once they max their engine out, or come as close as needed to kill anything so fast you'll go blind.

Yea the Clan Invasion is going to happen, but picking an earlier time and working out how things are going to work is better then just plunging us neck deep into too much technology, from more then one standpoint. On one hand, we have new toys to play with as they get released by PGI, we have something to play towards over time. On the other, it gives them development time to make sure things are as balanced as they can instead of being overloaded all at once. Does it suck for the Clanners or those who have a certain favorite 'mech out of timeline? Yea, kinda, but a strong base game will lead to a better game in the long run then basically making this a turkey shoot from the beginning. Slow updates gives them the most longevity to MW:O, anticipation from a community can be a powerful tool of retention, and it gives the dev team more time on specific projects too.

Personally, I wish the game had started in 3025, and never even touched the Clan Invasion.

View PostOdanan, on 04 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

PS: ugly mechs are the best.


Some people think this

Posted Image

is ugly, but it's the best damn thing flying. :lol:

Orion makes perfect since for the next Heavy, and with Flying Debris as concept artist..I bet he remakes it into something simply amazing.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 04 December 2012 - 11:39 AM.


#1076 Valkyrie Red one

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:51 AM

well i can see your arguments as valid, but still, we have a game that the setting is just an excuse to go on a series of arena like matches(or so i think the wargame will be like since most F2P games that contain some form of conquest wargame is in that fashion) to win. the setting could as well be a tournament like unreal tournament. mechwarrior tournament or championship will be called. mech and tech limitations would be imposed on matches and such. i think it would be more logical and easier to import all available mechs in that setting and it would be more fitting on a F2P game.

PS: once again i will point out that yes there are imbalances in including future tech, but i believe it can be balanced, but still maintaining individual characteristics.

PS: regarding clan/house wars, meh, im not a lone wolf because it is cool.

#1077 Jack Gallows

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostValkyrie Red one, on 04 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

well i can see your arguments as valid, but still, we have a game that the setting is just an excuse to go on a series of arena like matches(or so i think the wargame will be like since most F2P games that contain some form of conquest wargame is in that fashion) to win. the setting could as well be a tournament like unreal tournament. mechwarrior tournament or championship will be called. mech and tech limitations would be imposed on matches and such. i think it would be more logical and easier to import all available mechs in that setting and it would be more fitting on a F2P game.


It being F2P doesn't preclude it being a mechwarrior/battletech game at it's core. Arena style gaming is Solaris, which is in the universes lore, and they've said they'd like to explore that more once the base game is solid. However, the main focus of the battletech universe has always been house and clan warfare, and even with a tenuous grasp on the lore right now, it's going to be a center point during community warfare. Timeline dictates technological level, not artificial means in game (unless they add certain types of matches to Solaris.) Now, they may add the ability for players down the line to have matches that don't work under community warfare that allow them to train within their own unit or their own friends (private matches that give no XP or C-bills, etc,) or allow us to create our own little side tournaments with tech restrictions, but I don't see the game ever actually doing it outside of tech being outside the timeline.

View PostValkyrie Red one, on 04 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

PS: once again i will point out that yes there are imbalances in including future tech, but i believe it can be balanced, but still maintaining individual characteristics.


Never said new tech would unbalanced, as PGI would work as best they could to make it balanced. It's just better that they start lower then work their way up then throwing EVERYTHING at once at us and the devs to balance out. Juggle two grenades vs juggling twenty to start off with.

View PostValkyrie Red one, on 04 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

PS: regarding clan/house wars, meh, im not a lone wolf because it is cool.


Which you'll still end up fighting for one cause or another, because that's how matchmaking works. Lone Wolves will get put in games where a House/Merc/Clan unit needs an extra man (or woman,) or two. Mercs fight for a specific House, so if you fight with a Merc company as a lone wolf you're still furthering their cause.
Now, you may not care, and that's cool. You don't HAVE to be a part of a unit nor care about what 'mech you're shooting at as long as you're having fun (which I hope lone wolves do,) but unless you just want a shooting simulator, being a lone wolf doesn't give you much freedom of choice beyond just hitting the "launch" button. I'd assume anyway, being that this game is generally centered around being a team game as opposed to it being a grand melee of puggers.


Orion for president next 'mech announcement!

#1078 Odanan

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

View PostJack Gallows, on 04 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Orion for president next 'mech announcement!


Tomorrow!!

#1079 Splinters

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

I thought Stalker was the next mech in-line for Dec 18th? Nothing like a Stalker with a Santa Hat!

-S

#1080 Odanan

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

View PostSplinters, on 04 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

I thought Stalker was the next mech in-line for Dec 18th? Nothing like a Stalker with a Santa Hat!

-S


We are talking about the next announced mech (concept art). Stalker will be added (in Dec 18th) as a playable mech in the game, something very different.





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