20517 replies to this topic

[SgtMagor]

Stooping Hawk for next med Omni,

[ShadowbaneX]

Ugh. The Clans really should have brought some stylists and designers with them when they left.

[Odanan]

SgtMagor, on 20 October 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

Stooping Hawk for next med Omni,

Seriously?
The mech is slow, has bad variants (up to C config.), no endo steel and STANDARD ENGINE. Why the heck would anyone want that?

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 20 October 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

Seriously?
The mech is slow, has bad variants (up to C config.), no endo steel and STANDARD ENGINE. Why the heck would anyone want that?

I call it the "Stoopid Hawk" for a reason...

[SgtMagor]

you see a stupid hawk with a standard engine, I see an 86kph jump jetting mech with a lot of potential since it uses a standard engine it probably would survive even longer on the battlefield compared to XL equipped mechs. plus I like its Prime variant.

[Bishop Steiner]

SgtMagor, on 21 October 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

you see a stupid hawk with a standard engine, I see an 86kph jump jetting mech with a lot of potential since it uses a standard engine it probably would survive even longer on the battlefield compared to XL equipped mechs. plus I like its Prime variant.

eh, zombie mechs were overrated on IS chassis.... with Clan Chassis, and XLs that allow you to survive losing a torso? The lost speed and firepower from running a std over a clan XL is huge.

Config C is the only one that really maximizes the zombie hardpoints (F if one jumps to futuretech) and while a 2 C-ER Large Laser Zombie is better than a 2 IS-ML one, I can't think it's going to be appreciably more so than if it had 7.5 more tons to use, or a 330xl and 3 extra tons.

It's not horrible, and I think it would be neat to see what Alex could do with it, but that STD engine is jsut not as big a deal when you already have a C-XL.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Zombie mechs were really only a thing because the Centurion had borked hitboxes that made a STD engine Centurion soak SO MUCH DAMAGE before finally going down. It basically lived forever firing it's 2 MLasers. In beta before clans and power creep, two MLasers were a bit more nice, but still not going to light the world on fire.

I have said this MANY times. Stick mechs are useless. An IS pilot equips that heavy a** engine to survive one side torso loss (just like a Clan XL) so that he has at least some weapons left and doesn't die instantly like an IS XL. An IS pilot does NOT equip a STD engine to become a cored out stick with 1 head laser. Basically a Clan XL does everything an IS pilot wants a STD engine to do. The Clan XL just does it a whole bunch lighter. Heck, a Clan XL doesn't even mess with a large ballistic (in theory) because it takes up only 2 crit slots in a side torso vs 3. That is why I have no idea why a Clanner would EVER want a STD enigine. A STD engine is inferior to a Clan XL in EVERY way.

[Widowmaker1981]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 October 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

Zombie mechs were really only a thing because the Centurion had borked hitboxes that made a STD engine Centurion soak SO MUCH DAMAGE before finally going down. It basically lived forever firing it's 2 MLasers. In beta before clans and power creep, two MLasers were a bit more nice, but still not going to light the world on fire.

I have said this MANY times. Stick mechs are useless. An IS pilot equips that heavy a** engine to survive one side torso loss (just like a Clan XL) so that he has at least some weapons left and doesn't die instantly like an IS XL. An IS pilot does NOT equip a STD engine to become a cored out stick with 1 head laser. Basically a Clan XL does everything an IS pilot wants a STD engine to do. The Clan XL just does it a whole bunch lighter. Heck, a Clan XL doesn't even mess with a large ballistic (in theory) because it takes up only 2 crit slots in a side torso vs 3. That is why I have no idea why a Clanner would EVER want a STD enigine. A STD engine is inferior to a Clan XL in EVERY way.

Ill be running one of my Onion IICs with a STD engine. But thats because i want 2 Gauss in one ST. ON1-K - 35 tons free, which is enough for 2xGauss, 5 tons of ammo and 1 ERPPC. Will have more tonnage than that because clan FF is 20% to IS FFs 14%.

But yeah, in general i agree. I think STD engines should give a huge buff to RT/CT/LT structure (like.. 20-30 points) in order to make them viable, and IS XLs should be changed to not die from 1 ST loss to balance them with Clan XLs.

[CDLord HHGD]

It really should be the Viper as it is the last of the TRO 3050 Clan Invasion mechs.

[Widowmaker1981]

cdlord, on 21 October 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

It really should be the Viper as it is the last of the TRO 3050 Clan Invasion mechs.

Yeah, and clans dont have a 40 tonner yet either. I would have championed the Huntsman, but with the HBK-IIC coming its a bit obsolete before its released, so nevermind.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 October 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

It's not horrible, and I think it would be neat to see what Alex could do with it, but that STD engine is jsut not as big a deal when you already have a C-XL.

The only exception might be the Kingfisher, which has ES and FF, a good engine size and 2 energy center torso hardpoints. Not much pod space (24 tons with full armor), but the beast could zombie with 2 ER Large Lasers...

[Odanan]

Widowmaker1981, on 21 October 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

Yeah, and clans dont have a 40 tonner yet either. I would have championed the Huntsman, but with the HBK-IIC coming its a bit obsolete before its released, so nevermind.

I would really love to see the Viper (and Fire Moth) in the game to close the circle, but they need to resize the Nova first. The Viper uses the same legs as the Nova, and how they are now, they would be huge for a 40 tons mech.

[Widowmaker1981]

Odanan, on 21 October 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

I would really love to see the Viper (and Fire Moth) in the game to close the circle, but they need to resize the Nova first. The Viper uses the same legs as the Nova, and how they are now, they would be huge for a 40 tons mech.

Lol, yeah thats true. Viper will be ugly as sin too (not in a good way).

To be perfectly honest, because i care more about gameplay than nostalgia.. i think that PGI should stop releasing Omnimechs in general, because they are a pale shadow of the customisable IIC/Special clan mechs. Id rather see the Kodiak, Supernova, Stone Rhino et all added, because they wont have locked out mechlabs.

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 21 October 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

I would really love to see the Viper (and Fire Moth) in the game to close the circle, but they need to resize the Nova first. The Viper uses the same legs as the Nova, and how they are now, they would be huge for a 40 tons mech.

Oh yeah, the Fire Moth (Dasher)! I forgot about it....

SO, PGI has their Light and Medium.

Light -- Fire Moth
Medium -- Viper

[Karl Streiger]

Odanan, on 20 October 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

Seriously?
The mech is slow, has bad variants (up to C config.), no endo steel and STANDARD ENGINE. Why the heck would anyone want that?

its a 55t Summoner - same armor, same mobility, same weapon load - but 15t less.
OK this is not a "plus" for the StoopingHawk but a big fat "minus" for the Summoner.

The challenge remain to balance it vs a Crow (only with serious flaws for the maneuverability for the Crow - and the hope that weapon quirks or armor quirks > 5% are a thing of the past in the future)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 October 2015 - 05:26 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Odanan, on 21 October 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

The only exception might be the Kingfisher, which has ES and FF, a good engine size and 2 energy center torso hardpoints. Not much pod space (24 tons with full armor), but the beast could zombie with 2 ER Large Lasers...

The only real problem with building any mech to Zombie, is you end up taking a heavier (and normally slower, but not always) STD engine to do it. You are also possibly placing heavier weapons (which may be more useful in an arm or side torso) in the CT where it may sit lower or have less free aim potential.

You are basically building a Zombie to be less effective when healthy, in the hopes it will be somewhat effective when it is crippled (no side torsos and arms).

I'd rather have the mech close or at it's full potential the entire match, than gamble that your core stick of a mech could do more damage or get a kill when it would have been dead otherwise. Especially since a zombie'd mech has normally sustained so much damage which resulted in two torso losses, that it is probably CT armor stripped, suffered some internal damage which may have resulted in one of the precious CT weapons being destroyed anyway.

Zombies sound a lot more fun than they really are in practice (unless you maybe have a beta Centurion at the ready ).

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 21 October 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

The only exception might be the Kingfisher, which has ES and FF, a good engine size and 2 energy center torso hardpoints. Not much pod space (24 tons with full armor), but the beast could zombie with 2 ER Large Lasers...

except I don't know any of those off hand that have more than one CT mount, and none with a H.... so a single laser zombie? Meh.

And beam duration for clan ERLL are not ideal for zombie play

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 October 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

except I don't know any of those off hand that have more than one CT mount, and none with a H.... so a single laser zombie? Meh.

The Kingfisher C has 2 energy weapons in the Center Torso (originally, 2 ER Medium Lasers).

Bishop Steiner, on 21 October 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

And beam duration for clan ERLL are not ideal for zombie play

That is right. Even so, the Kingfisher is as good as any Clan Std. Engine Omnimech can get.
I'm not advocating the mech, though. Turkina (3052) and Blood Asp (3060) are much more interesting, specially the Blood Asp (AKA Metamech).

[Odanan]

Widowmaker1981, on 21 October 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

Lol, yeah thats true. Viper will be ugly as sin too (not in a good way).

To be perfectly honest, because i care more about gameplay than nostalgia.. i think that PGI should stop releasing Omnimechs in general, because they are a pale shadow of the customisable IIC/Special clan mechs. Id rather see the Kodiak, Supernova, Stone Rhino et all added, because they wont have locked out mechlabs.

If PGI has the slightest aptitude for business, the next Clan pack will be composed of second line Battlemechs. Because Kodiak.
(see my signature)

But after that, I hope they release the 3052 Clan Omnimechs (year we reached already). I'm really looking forward for the Night Gyr.

[Nathan Foxbane]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 October 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

That is why I have no idea why a Clanner would EVER want a STD enigine. A STD engine is inferior to a Clan XL in EVERY way.

They use Standards because of lore and economics. Resources are not exactly plentiful on the Clan Homeworlds and advanced Clan tech uses more and harder to get/manufacture resources than IS tech. It's why most Clan vehicles do not have fusion engines if they can help it. And since their bidding process forces a commander to make the most with the least, a commander can bid more inferior units if need be. The Stooping Hawk is made by Clan Blood Spirit, the smallest, most resource strapped Clan. They cannot afford to put XLs in too many 'Mechs.