20517 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 October 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

Not actually confirmed true, unless retconned.

The first mention that it might not be a stock RFL-3N was in the Solaris 7 Box Set published in 1991. It espoused several theories, from being built with star league tech, post discovery of IICs, it was theorized it might have been an 80 or 90 mech, etc.

The only actual canon description of it, in Warrior: EnGarde, was of a stock rifleman armament (5 shot popguns), (paper thin) armor, ammo loads and gross heat burden (when he triggered the large lasers, the wash of waste heat had him comment on it not being an efficient machine). Justin Xiang gives a running commentary of all the mechs shortcomings throughout his match against Philip Capet. Also, nothing was unusual to the eyes of a master technician, Tsen Shang when he prepped it for Justin's use for the title match.

It being anything else, is to the best o my knowledge, unsupported rumours.

Of course, in MWO it could be armed however you like.

The fact that it managed to not only compete but win in the Class 5 (which is utterly dominated by assault 'Mechs considering it's the only non-Open class they can fight in) arenas for seven years running pretty much points a big flashing sign towards the lostech version. As of 3052, the top 20 on Solaris had one heavy. And it was a refitted Marauder, with the remainder ranging from 80-100 tons.

The "Legend-Killer" Justin fought in was very likely a ringer- and the "real" Legend Killer" was never found. Given the preponderence of lostech Noton's original 'Mech may very well have ended up mothballed somewhere for lack of parts, considering Noton's retirement without a single loss in seven years against a string of assault 'Mechs (where he was the only "heavy" to compete.). The Solaris VII sourcebooks indicate there was evidence that Noton's 'Mech had actually tonnage in the 80-90 weight class....which points straight towards the Royal version. And such a beast was going to be very, very well hidden even (and especially) if it was a Star League lostech chassis.

Note that Class 5 arenas don't check weight- since it's "assault or lighter"- and there is no such thing as a "pre-match check" on a 'Mech unless specific conditions are required (like melee only). (Again, Solaris VII sourcebook- the Marauder in the top 20 is specifically noted as having plenty of secrets other stables would pay to know- and if such an inspection existed from "refs", the info would have leaked.). In fact, if he'd competed in Class 4, there WOULD have been weight checks to insure he wasn't piloting something too big- and a Rifleman II would have failed miserably.

Once you fill in all the lines, it's obvious regardless of not being stated outright.

[TheArisen]

What do you guys think of this line up? One per weight class obviously.

Light: Hussar or Javelin
Medium: Assassin, Rajin or Vulcan.
Heavy: Penetrator, Falconer or Anvil
Assault: Nighstar, Gunslinger or Pillager

[Strum Wealh]

TheArisen, on 27 October 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

What do you guys think of this line up? One per weight class obviously.

Light: Hussar or Javelin
Medium: Assassin, Rajin or Vulcan.
Heavy: Penetrator, Falconer or Anvil
Assault: Nighstar, Gunslinger or Pillager

Both the Nightstar and the Pillager are extinct & out-of-production until 3058, and the Gunslinger has only one timeline-appropriate variant (the second canonical variant requires IS ERMLs (out-of-timeline) and a C3 Master Computer (not implemented in MWO), and the third canonical variant is derived from the second).

The Penetrator doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3056 & the third in 3058, making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release (e.g. if/when PGI is ready to move up to the Great Refusal era, and make the Clan Homeworlds attackable(!?)). The Falconer, however, has only one variant between 3053 and 3075. The Anvil, like the Penetrator, doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3057 & the third in 3058, also making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release.

The Raijin has only one timeline-appropriate variant, with all of the others requiring out-of-timeline equipment.

While PGI have shown that they can make up their own variants for chassis, they've also shown that there is a preference for still going with chassis that have a sufficient number of timeline-appropriate chassis & exercising their ability to make up variants as more of a "last resort".
And, even then, a chassis that might need only one additional variant is far more likely to squeeze by than one that needs two PGI variants, so much so that, IMO, the latter can most likely be safely discounted from consideration.

For the Assault 'Mechs, there are still plenty of other options: the Charger, the Cyclops, the Hatamoto-Chi, the Thug (which would need 1 PGI variant), the Marauder II (now that the HG Unseen are an option), and the Longbow (again, now that the HG Unseen are an option), among others.

Likewise, there are still plenty of other options for the Heavy 'Mechs: the Champion, the Lancelot, the Guillotine, the Bombarider (which would need 1 PGI variant), and several of the HG Unseen (the Archer, the Rifleman, the Ostroc, and the Ostsol), among others.

[Ovion]

Strum Wealh, on 27 October 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Spoiler

Both the Nightstar and the Pillager are extinct & out-of-production until 3058, and the Gunslinger has only one timeline-appropriate variant (the second canonical variant requires IS ERMLs (out-of-timeline) and a C3 Master Computer (not implemented in MWO), and the third canonical variant is derived from the second).

The Penetrator doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3056 & the third in 3058, making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release (e.g. if/when PGI is ready to move up to the Great Refusal era, and make the Clan Homeworlds attackable(!?)). The Falconer, however, has only one variant between 3053 and 3075. The Anvil, like the Penetrator, doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3057 & the third in 3058, also making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release.

The Raijin has only one timeline-appropriate variant, with all of the others requiring out-of-timeline equipment.

While PGI have shown that they can make up their own variants for chassis, they've also shown that there is a preference for still going with chassis that have a sufficient number of timeline-appropriate chassis & exercising their ability to make up variants as more of a "last resort".
And, even then, a chassis that might need only one additional variant is far more likely to squeeze by than one that needs two PGI variants, so much so that, IMO, the latter can most likely be safely discounted from consideration.

For the Assault 'Mechs, there are still plenty of other options: the Charger, the Cyclops, the Hatamoto-Chi, the Thug (which would need 1 PGI variant), the Marauder II (now that the HG Unseen are an option), and the Longbow (again, now that the HG Unseen are an option), among others.

Likewise, there are still plenty of other options for the Heavy 'Mechs: the Champion, the Lancelot, the Guillotine, the Bombarider (which would need 1 PGI variant), and several of the HG Unseen (the Archer, the Rifleman, the Ostroc, and the Ostsol), among others.

I'd even go so far as to say a large number of chassis ideally need 4 variants now, with PGI's current common practice being 4 variants for early adopters.

Meaning:
4 Variants as of 3052 = Readily available
3 Variants as of 3052 = Easily available with possibly +1 PGI variant.
2 Variants as of 3052 = Available but less likely, needing +1-2 PGI variants.
1 Variant as of 3052 = Possible, but unlikely requiring +2-3 PGI Variants.

The exemptions for the last two have mainly been for mechs that are insanely popular / iconic in the community, and so more likely to sell particularly well, and to my knowledge nothing has more than 2 PGI variants so far. (could be wrong there)

Edited by Ovion, 27 October 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 27 October 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

What do you guys think of this line up? One per weight class obviously.

Light: Hussar or Javelin
Medium: Assassin, Rajin or Vulcan.
Heavy: Penetrator, Falconer or Anvil
Assault: Nighstar, Gunslinger or Pillager

The next IS mech pack will be of Macross Unseens for sure.

Light: Wasp (or Stinger, or Valkyrie, but Wasp more likely)
Medium: Phoenix Hawk
Heavy: Crusader (or Archer, or Rifleman - depending on which will be released standalone)
Assault: Longbow (Marauder II is too rare; Rifleman II is too extinct)

Anyway, Bushwacker is the strongest candidate for the medium weight class after the Phoenix Hawk. Maybe the Flea will finally get it's chance (specially now it has a 3d model), but I would prefer the Javelin or the Mongoose. Lancelot will certaily lose the heavy spot, since the Rifleman will get in, so the heavy will probably be some newer chassis, like the Gallowglas or War Dog. And for Assault, there are still so many good options...

After that, I can see PGI doing some leap to the future. Maybe even reaching for the MW4 mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

wanderer, on 27 October 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

The fact that it managed to not only compete but win in the Class 5 (which is utterly dominated by assault 'Mechs considering it's the only non-Open class they can fight in) arenas for seven years running pretty much points a big flashing sign towards the lostech version. As of 3052, the top 20 on Solaris had one heavy. And it was a refitted Marauder, with the remainder ranging from 80-100 tons.

The "Legend-Killer" Justin fought in was very likely a ringer- and the "real" Legend Killer" was never found. Given the preponderence of lostech Noton's original 'Mech may very well have ended up mothballed somewhere for lack of parts, considering Noton's retirement without a single loss in seven years against a string of assault 'Mechs (where he was the only "heavy" to compete.). The Solaris VII sourcebooks indicate there was evidence that Noton's 'Mech had actually tonnage in the 80-90 weight class....which points straight towards the Royal version. And such a beast was going to be very, very well hidden even (and especially) if it was a Star League lostech chassis.

Note that Class 5 arenas don't check weight- since it's "assault or lighter"- and there is no such thing as a "pre-match check" on a 'Mech unless specific conditions are required (like melee only). (Again, Solaris VII sourcebook- the Marauder in the top 20 is specifically noted as having plenty of secrets other stables would pay to know- and if such an inspection existed from "refs", the info would have leaked.). In fact, if he'd competed in Class 4, there WOULD have been weight checks to insure he wasn't piloting something too big- and a Rifleman II would have failed miserably.

Once you fill in all the lines, it's obvious regardless of not being stated outright.

As noted, the weight of canon evidence does not back the theory, and the class 5, as you describe it, is mostly a 3050 phenomena, not a 3025 and earlier one. Assault mechs were almost non existent on Solaris at that time. It was dominated in the 3050s by Assaults because of a mixture of the tech renaissance of the 3030s to present, the availability of level 1 tech Assaults because of the Houses updating their armies with non obsolete level 2 tech mechs, and the influx of cash that the clan invasion actually brought to Solaris, which started seeing bigger and better business than before.

Using the status quo of a 3055 sourcebook to try to explain the games from 3020 and earlier? Not solid, sorry. The only actual evidence, not inference, directly contradicts those theories.

So until it is actually retconned to be so, those are nice theories, and fun, but to claim them as "factual" is simply put, wrong. I admit, I cannot 100% claim it is a stock RFL.3N, either, but the weight of actual evidence supports that far more than not.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 27 October 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Both the Nightstar and the Pillager are extinct & out-of-production until 3058, and the Gunslinger has only one timeline-appropriate variant (the second canonical variant requires IS ERMLs (out-of-timeline) and a C3 Master Computer (not implemented in MWO), and the third canonical variant is derived from the second).

The Penetrator doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3056 & the third in 3058, making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release (e.g. if/when PGI is ready to move up to the Great Refusal era, and make the Clan Homeworlds attackable(!?)). The Falconer, however, has only one variant between 3053 and 3075. The Anvil, like the Penetrator, doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3057 & the third in 3058, also making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release.

The Raijin has only one timeline-appropriate variant, with all of the others requiring out-of-timeline equipment.

While PGI have shown that they can make up their own variants for chassis, they've also shown that there is a preference for still going with chassis that have a sufficient number of timeline-appropriate chassis & exercising their ability to make up variants as more of a "last resort".
And, even then, a chassis that might need only one additional variant is far more likely to squeeze by than one that needs two PGI variants, so much so that, IMO, the latter can most likely be safely discounted from consideration.

For the Assault 'Mechs, there are still plenty of other options: the Charger, the Cyclops, the Hatamoto-Chi, the Thug (which would need 1 PGI variant), the Marauder II (now that the HG Unseen are an option), and the Longbow (again, now that the HG Unseen are an option), among others.

Likewise, there are still plenty of other options for the Heavy 'Mechs: the Champion, the Lancelot, the Guillotine, the Bombarider (which would need 1 PGI variant), and several of the HG Unseen (the Archer, the Rifleman, the Ostroc, and the Ostsol), among others.

I would say one of the most interesting candidates from the 3055 TRO, is the BANDERSNATCH.


http://www.solaris7....Info.asp?ID=925

Yes, there is only 1 "official" variant, but here is where it could be interesting, and make for a fun "entry" contest.

"Unless a major company takes over production of the Bandersnatch, every 'Mech produced by Bander BattleMechs will be a variation of its basic design. The company claims to be able to build a single Bandersnatch or variant in approximately ten months, depending on the required modifications."

Being essentially a "custom tuner" much like Carroll Shelby Enterprises is for today's automotive industry (or several other houses) or a "start-up" like Tesla, almost any and all of the Bandersnatch build are to the "customers" order, just based off his basic model.

In truth, this also means, numbers-wise, Bandersnatch are rare as heck, but actual scarcity has not stopped PGI in the past.

And IMO, it's the most interesting design left (non Unseen) of the 3025, 2750 and 3055 Heavies.

Mind you, it almost certainly won't happen, but just my 2ct.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 October 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

I would say one of the most interesting candidates from the 3055 TRO, is the BANDERSNATCH.

http://www.solaris7....Info.asp?ID=925

Yes, there is only 1 "official" variant, but here is where it could be interesting, and make for a fun "entry" contest.

"Unless a major company takes over production of the Bandersnatch, every 'Mech produced by Bander BattleMechs will be a variation of its basic design. The company claims to be able to build a single Bandersnatch or variant in approximately ten months, depending on the required modifications."

Being essentially a "custom tuner" much like Carroll Shelby Enterprises is for today's automotive industry (or several other houses) or a "start-up" like Tesla, almost any and all of the Bandersnatch build are to the "customers" order, just based off his basic model.

In truth, this also means, numbers-wise, Bandersnatch are rare as heck, but actual scarcity has not stopped PGI in the past.

And IMO, it's the most interesting design left (non Unseen) of the 3025, 2750 and 3055 Heavies.

Mind you, it almost certainly won't happen, but just my 2ct.

A mech with (at least a few) custom hardpoints? Wow, that would be amazing, but very hard to implement, since MWO has dynamic weapon geometry.

If made possible, I predict PGI would sell a lot of these mechs...

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 27 October 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Light: Wasp (or Stinger, or Valkyrie, but Wasp more likely)
Medium: Phoenix Hawk
Heavy: Crusader (or Archer, or Rifleman - depending on which will be released standalone)
Assault: Longbow (Marauder II is too rare; Rifleman II is too extinct)

Hmm, rarity hasn't really been too huge a factor on mechs. Biggest issue is lack of existing variants. But as long as there are at least 2, PGI can make a 3rd, as we have seen, now.

For the Marauder II, there are 4, as of 3052. the 4A, 5A, 5B and 5C.

fairly androgynous, but so were the King Crabs (also pretty rare at this time, along with Highlanders).

The big reason though? Outside of MW4, no one but diehards really know the Longbow. More So, it was not even a popular chassis for MW4 PvP. And Missile Vomit is about the furthest thing from the Meta right now, and for those so inclined, we have a 51 kph 85 ton missile boat currently in the Stalker...which no one ever puts missiles on, anymore.
Mind you, done right, the Longbow would be XL friendly:

But people will just complain about how fast it loses it's arms.

Also, it would be the flagship on a 120$ package. I simply don't see it garnering the buzz that a Marauder II would, and generating the same revenues. I doubt the Longbow would be a big seller, as a solo pack, either, but beuing an Assault, it's not even got the advantage of being a "step up" purchase to get the mechs you really want.

Most people would simply buy the Crusader/Archer/Rifleman pack (whichever ends up in the pack, IF we even see a new megapack, which I doubt) and skip the Longbow.

Marketwise, I'd say it's pretty lose/lose for PGI.

Odanan, on 27 October 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

A mech with (at least a few) custom hardpoints? Wow, that would be amazing, but very hard to implement, since MWO has dynamic weapon geometry.

If made possible, I predict PGI would sell a lot of these mechs...

I doubt it would have "custom hardpoints". I'm saying that because a large share of the small number actually produced were mods to customer's tastes, it would make sense (in my twisted logic) to have made up variants to fill the gaps, and that like the Hero and Champion Mechs, PGI could host a "design a Bandersnatch" contest on NGNG, and choose 2 "custom" variants to add to the pack.

[TheArisen]

Strum Wealh, on 27 October 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Both the Nightstar and the Pillager are extinct & out-of-production until 3058, and the Gunslinger has only one timeline-appropriate variant (the second canonical variant requires IS ERMLs (out-of-timeline) and a C3 Master Computer (not implemented in MWO), and the third canonical variant is derived from the second).

The Penetrator doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3056 & the third in 3058, making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release (e.g. if/when PGI is ready to move up to the Great Refusal era, and make the Clan Homeworlds attackable(!?)). The Falconer, however, has only one variant between 3053 and 3075. The Anvil, like the Penetrator, doesn't suffer from a dearth of canonical variants, but the second variant is available in 3057 & the third in 3058, also making it a more-likely candidate for a much later release.

The Raijin has only one timeline-appropriate variant, with all of the others requiring out-of-timeline equipment.

While PGI have shown that they can make up their own variants for chassis, they've also shown that there is a preference for still going with chassis that have a sufficient number of timeline-appropriate chassis & exercising their ability to make up variants as more of a "last resort".
And, even then, a chassis that might need only one additional variant is far more likely to squeeze by than one that needs two PGI variants, so much so that, IMO, the latter can most likely be safely discounted from consideration.

For the Assault 'Mechs, there are still plenty of other options: the Charger, the Cyclops, the Hatamoto-Chi, the Thug (which would need 1 PGI variant), the Marauder II (now that the HG Unseen are an option), and the Longbow (again, now that the HG Unseen are an option), among others.

Likewise, there are still plenty of other options for the Heavy 'Mechs: the Champion, the Lancelot, the Guillotine, the Bombarider (which would need 1 PGI variant), and several of the HG Unseen (the Archer, the Rifleman, the Ostroc, and the Ostsol), among others.

Technically we probably shouldn't have the King Crab but we do.

Obviously the unseen are coming first but those are mechs I'd be excited to see Pgi introduce. I tried to not go too crazy and name just a few.

I like the Bandersnatch, it has enough hard points (12 I think) that Pgi could split the base variant. Also as Bishop says it even has a lore reason for Pgi to invent a variant or two. I just wish it's arms weren't so low.

[TheArisen]

I'd also point out a few mechs have two made up variants. (Mauler, Enforcer)

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 27 October 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

After that, I can see PGI doing some leap to the future. Maybe even reaching for the MW4 mechs.

I can see a jump, but I doubt we will jump right to the FedCom civil war era. Too many profitable waypoints before that, with the refusal war and Operation Bulldog. Plenty of new tech in the late 3050s. I hope they are smart enough to mine that for a bit, first, before jumping to the 3063+ era of MW4.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 October 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Outside of MW4, no one but diehards really know the Longbow. More So, it was not even a popular chassis for MW4 PvP. And Missile Vomit is about the furthest thing from the Meta right now, and for those so inclined, we have a 51 kph 85 ton missile boat currently in the Stalker...which no one ever puts missiles on, anymore.
Mind you, done right, the Longbow would be XL friendly:

But people will just complain about how fast it loses it's arms.

Also, it would be the flagship on a 120$ package. I simply don't see it garnering the buzz that a Marauder II would, and generating the same revenues. I doubt the Longbow would be a big seller, as a solo pack, either, but beuing an Assault, it's not even got the advantage of being a "step up" purchase to get the mechs you really want.

Flagship for a $80 pack. About it being a big seller, you could say the same of the Zeus (low weight assault mech). People will get the top tier because of the many advantages (bonuses) you get and for a "completionist" feel of owning all Unseens. Sure, the mech's arms don't need to be huge (mechs are being released smaller now).

Marauder II will already come with an Origins II pack, in the form of Marauder IIC. 3 Marauders would be too much for the game.

Edited by Odanan, 27 October 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 27 October 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

Flagship for a $80 pack. About it being a big seller, you could say the same of the Zeus (low weight assault mech). People will get the top tier because of the many advantages (bonuses) you get and for a "completionist" feel of owning all Unseens. Sure, the mech's arms don't need to be huge (mechs are being released smaller now).

Marauder II will already come with an Origins II pack, in the form of Marauder IIC. 3 Marauders would be too much for the game.

Zeus was massively popular design with fans of the game, though. The Longbow never has been.

Also, the Marauder II (100 tonner) is a totally different mech than the Marauder IIC (85 tonner)

And again, I am not sure we will even see any more jumbo packs. The new single pack method might well be the pattern going forward.

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 October 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

I would say one of the most interesting candidates from the 3055 TRO, is the BANDERSNATCH.


http://www.solaris7....Info.asp?ID=925

Yes, there is only 1 "official" variant, but here is where it could be interesting, and make for a fun "entry" contest.

"Unless a major company takes over production of the Bandersnatch, every 'Mech produced by Bander BattleMechs will be a variation of its basic design. The company claims to be able to build a single Bandersnatch or variant in approximately ten months, depending on the required modifications."

Being essentially a "custom tuner" much like Carroll Shelby Enterprises is for today's automotive industry (or several other houses) or a "start-up" like Tesla, almost any and all of the Bandersnatch build are to the "customers" order, just based off his basic model.

In truth, this also means, numbers-wise, Bandersnatch are rare as heck, but actual scarcity has not stopped PGI in the past.

And IMO, it's the most interesting design left (non Unseen) of the 3025, 2750 and 3055 Heavies.

Mind you, it almost certainly won't happen, but just my 2ct.

You should draw the Bandersnatch (hopefully Patricia didn't mess up your art stuff)

[Bishop Steiner]

TheArisen, on 27 October 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

You should draw the Bandersnatch (hopefully Patricia didn't mess up your art stuff)

I messed with it once (tried to make it truer to the fluff, which had it based on the Marauder)


but never really went any further.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 October 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

I messed with it once (tried to make it truer to the fluff, which had it based on the Marauder)
but never really went any further.

This is very good!

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 27 October 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

This is very good!

eh... I look at the stuff I did 2 years ago now, and I just see so much wrong with it, lol.

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 October 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

eh... I look at the stuff I did 2 years ago now, and I just see so much wrong with it, lol.

Hey I like your older stuff!

[wanderer]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 October 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

As noted, the weight of canon evidence does not back the theory, and the class 5, as you describe it, is mostly a 3050 phenomena, not a 3025 and earlier one. Assault mechs were almost non existent on Solaris at that time. It was dominated in the 3050s by Assaults because of a mixture of the tech renaissance of the 3030s to present, the availability of level 1 tech Assaults because of the Houses updating their armies with non obsolete level 2 tech mechs, and the influx of cash that the clan invasion actually brought to Solaris, which started seeing bigger and better business than before.

Um, the historical data on Solaris champions is a long string of heavy-to-assaults, with the lightest (and earliest) being an Archer and Warhammer of note. The rest are a series of assault 'Mechs, with the Battlemaster being the most-mentioned...but Class 5's all the way through. While the majority of Solaris fights are smaller machines, the champions of Solaris were and are the folks who piloting the biggest of the big bots.

(Amusingly enough, at least three of the listed Solaris champions are real people- that is, top ranking MechForce players of the time.)

Quote

Using the status quo of a 3055 sourcebook to try to explain the games from 3020 and earlier? Not solid, sorry. The only actual evidence, not inference, directly contradicts those theories.

You mean a sourcebook that actually covers the history of Solaris from the beginning of the games isn't the source one uses? We're not talking the entire Solaris population here- we're talking about the -champions- of Solaris, the best of the best...which despite often (indeed, almost universally) working their way up the weight chain, end up at the top in an assault 'Mech, fighting in Class 5 battles.

Quote

So until it is actually retconned to be so, those are nice theories, and fun, but to claim them as "factual" is simply put, wrong. I admit, I cannot 100% claim it is a stock RFL.3N, either, but the weight of actual evidence supports that far more than not.

Also, I think you're referring to The MechWarrior's Guide to Solaris VII, which differs from the original Solaris VII set- the latter has a good deal more historical info than the former. The Guide... is 3055-specific, while the original S7 books are set three years prior and talk about earlier champions, etc. in greater depth.