20517 replies to this topic

[FalconerGray]

CK16, on 02 April 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

maybe a year to 18 months? It's cool not wanting the mech in game right now just grrrr! How long did you guys have to wait for your Marauder? I don't think I can wait that long I gotta have something to chew on o.O

For it to be an official mech in a Mechwarrior title? If you count the IIC in MW2, 20 years. If its the original only, then 26 years.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Russ said he want this game to be around in 7 years (sure we want that too!) and didn't want to "burn" some mechs by releasing them already. It makes sense. Each mech release must be more attractive to keep the people buying. If they add all the "best" MW4 mechs now, what will be left to release in 4, 5, 6 years?

Have you considered that the more propaganda you do for the Mad Cat MK II, the more it could be delayed?

I've made those very points before, to no avail.

Without trying to fuel a fire, I think it's best summed up as "the heart wants what the heart wants".

And at that point, objectivity is very difficult. It's also been made probably a little more so by Russ's "politician Gene" causing him to vacillate from direct, black and white answers (plus those same black and white answers biting him in the tuckus in the past)

The truth is the infrastructure for a Timeline leap ain't in place, and will be a major undertaking.
Pulling all the "A+" Chassis out early in the race is a surefire way to minimize the longevity of sales and thus, this game.
As I noted before, How would Imp, PBiggz and crew feel if a group got a push together to jump right to Dark Age and start popping out the latest, greatest from it, at the expense of the mkII, Uziel, etc?
There are a number of factors at play here. It's not a conspiracy. It's business model, the guy in charge's personal vision of the game, and logistics.

Most people I do believe want the mkII in the game. But once you make that jump there is essentially zero chance for the mech sin between to be revisited, as the push will be to go for the latest and greatest of the MW4 era. And again, you run the risk of the well running dry due to diminishing gains once all the "Poster Child" Mechs are introduced.

Heck, as a fan I'd hate it because it be like getting one awesome Christmas, then every other year after being nothing but new pairs of socks from grandma.

*shrugs*

[Imperius]

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Russ said he want this game to be around in 7 years (sure we want that too!) and didn't want to "burn" some mechs by releasing them already. It makes sense. Each mech release must be more attractive to keep the people buying. If they add all the "best" MW4 mechs now, what will be left to release in 4, 5, 6 years?

Have you considered that the more propaganda you do for the Mad Cat MK II, the more it could be delayed?

No more worries I'm done best of luck to you guys, you say we shouldn't skip over mechs, well honestly there is no skipping mechs pulling one from the future is no different than pulling from the past.

What they did lose is pretty much the guaranteed $60-$80 a month from me. After 3 years of patiently waiting and then getting lead on and name dropped in the sake of the mech followed by 4 months of pushing for it, I'm just done. The same issue these forums had when I first came here are still here. Support those in order timeline mechs for me bros!

Ignoring the desire of lifetime support customers that buy ever top tier of every mech pack can be just as damaging too. I just needed a boost to the game of something I enjoy to warrant me constantly throwing down on mech pack after mech pack that I don't even play, lets say the Dire Wolf I play 90% of the time just isnt cutting it anymore. Best of luck to you all and no you can't has my stuffs. I'm done with buying each mech pack and MWO until there is an actually reason for me to play. Might be back mid 2017 who knows.

I have 35,000 MC (Nothing to spend it on)
56 Million C-bills, nothing to spend it on (Yes, this is not a lot of C-Bills, but I only have around 1,500 matches)
740 something days (I think) of premium time I never needed to activate.

Congratulations to the timeline people winning, that was your goal right? You were bored and thought it would be a jolly time to derail, troll, follow, and report me and my threads, it's kinda funny though they tried to make a 4 pack and saw the issue I already knew... there are no more good clan mechs to release till 3060's

Edited by Imperius, 02 April 2016 - 05:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

He said "I doubt you can guess the next mech", so we tried less obvious mechs.

I agree the Viper is not the #1 mech in anybody's list, but it's an expected mech (being one of the 16 original Clan mechs).

About PVE, yes, I agree it is very important for people to 1) learn how to play; 2) play casually; 3) learn about the lore. Vote for Odanan as one of PGI's game designer and I promise I will work on that 80 hours a week.

If you can get Alex to use my Vulcan as the base for one of his concept arts, I'll vote for ya..... (unbiased here! really! )

[Bishop Steiner]

Imperius, on 02 April 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

Ignoring the desire of lifetime support customers that buy ever top tier of every mech pack can be just as damaging too.

the problem with that card is the number of people who can make the same claim (like me) but don't share your vision. Whose way is right?

That's why I never play my 1% card Imp. Because it doesn't entitle me to a dang thing. Because other 1%ers can roundly disagree with my views. The only points that really matter are the one backed by facts, figures and well reasoned arguments.

No more, no less. It ain't an agenda against you, no matter what you choose to believe.

[FalconerGray]

Thank you, Bish.

[Odanan]

Imperius, on 02 April 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

Congratulations to the timeline people winning, that was your goal right? You were bored and thought it would be a jolly time to derail, troll, follow, and report me and my threads, it's kinda funny though they tried to make a 4 pack and saw the issue I already knew... there are no more good clan mechs to release till 3060's

I think the problem is the light Clan omnimech to round up the pack.

PGI is reluctant to add the 3052+ omnimechs (even if the Cicada 3F is from 3052), so the only remaining light omnimech is the Fire Moth. And Fire Moth, with MASC, would break the speed limit of the engine. Maybe they are waiting the engine upgrade to properly add this mech?

But you could make a pack here:

Light:
- Fire Falcon (3052)

Medium: (still so many options)
- Pouncer (3050)
- Huntsman (3049)
- Black Lanner (3052)
- Phantom (3052)
- Mongrel (3053)
- Coyotl (very old, but extinct?)

Heavy:
- Linebacker (3052)
- Night Gyr (3052)

Assault:
- Kingfisher (very old, but Std. Engine)
- Turkina (3052)

[I intentionally left the Std. Engine mediums and heavies out of the list]

No one can deny the Huntsman (and the Coyotl, but that's another discussion) and the Night Gyr are very good mechs.

Maybe the standalone format is selling better? (well, if you consider the chassis chosen until now, it should sell very well - but there is a limited number of "Classics", and less people will be willing to pay the cost of a Kodiak for a Wasp...)

If they return to the 4-pack format, I hope they review the prices or add even more bonus stuff. We got a bad habit of paying $20 for super iconic heavy or assault mechs.

[Odanan]

And about the order of releases and timeline, I will use a metaphor:

You are the organizer of a music festival of 1 afternoon/evening. You have 4 bands to play: Rolling Stones, Scorpions, 3 Doors Down and some unknown local band. What will be the lineup? (order of the bands)

Important: you want to sell drinks and food until the end of the event.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

I think the problem is the light Clan omnimech to round up the pack.

PGI is reluctant to add the 3052+ omnimechs (even if the Cicada 3F is from 3052), so the only remaining light omnimech is the Fire Moth. And Fire Moth, with MASC, would break the speed limit of the engine. Maybe they are waiting the engine upgrade to properly add this mech?

But you could make a pack here:

Light:
- Fire Falcon (3052)

Medium: (still so many options)
- Pouncer (3050)
- Huntsman (3049)
- Black Lanner (3052)
- Phantom (3052)
- Mongrel (3053)
- Coyotl (very old, but extinct?)

Heavy:
- Linebacker (3052)
- Night Gyr (3052)

Assault:
- Kingfisher (very old, but Std. Engine)
- Turkina (3052)

[I intentionally left the Std. Engine mediums and heavies out of the list]

No one can deny the Huntsman (and the Coyotl, but that's another discussion) and the Night Gyr are very good mechs.

Maybe the standalone format is selling better? (well, if you consider the chassis chosen until now, it should sell very well - but there is a limited number of "Classics", and less people will be willing to pay the cost of a Kodiak for a Wasp...)

If they return to the 4-pack format, I hope they review the prices or add even more bonus stuff. We got a bad habit of paying $20 for super iconic heavy or assault mechs.

Well one thing we know... pinning the sales of a top tier pack on a BAD ASSAULT robot? Not ideal.

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

And about the order of releases and timeline, I will use a metaphor:

You are the organizer of a music festival of 1 afternoon/evening. You have 4 bands to play: Rolling Stones, Scorpions, 3 Doors Down and some unknown local band. What will be the lineup? (order of the bands)

Important: you want to sell drinks and food until the end of the event.

Well duh! I came for the Stones so I want them NOW!!!!

And yeah...I'll really stay through the other three acts to bask in the glory......

(Especially when the new wears off of your prize toy and you come to that realization that it's still the same old MWO, new toy or not. So if one is really only here based on the toys? You are chasing placebos.)

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

Maybe the standalone format is selling better? (well, if you consider the chassis chosen until now, it should sell very well - but there is a limited number of "Classics", and less people will be willing to pay the cost of a Kodiak for a Wasp...)

If they return to the 4-pack format, I hope they review the prices or add even more bonus stuff. We got a bad habit of paying $20 for super iconic heavy or assault mechs.

taken from a different post of mine:
because of perceived value issues with the new model, they have been avoiding all Lights, I've noticed. Because even though "all classes" are supposed to be equal and viable, in theory, even if it were actually true, the perceived value for a Light Mech is not there, further bolstered by PGIs own Hero/Champion pricing methods. Who would pay $15 dollars for a Light Hero? The Huggin sits at about 12$ when it's not on sale.

They really need to sort out the Mech of the Month, IMO.

$10/15/20/25 Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault
Collectors is a $10 "Token" you can add to whatever variant you prefer (one time, then locked)
Heroes get a 25% discount off "normal" Price if bought by Pack Owners.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

I think the problem is the light Clan omnimech to round up the pack.

PGI is reluctant to add the 3052+ omnimechs (even if the Cicada 3F is from 3052), so the only remaining light omnimech is the Fire Moth. And Fire Moth, with MASC, would break the speed limit of the engine. Maybe they are waiting the engine upgrade to properly add this mech?

But you could make a pack here:

Light:
- Fire Falcon (3052)

Medium: (still so many options)
- Pouncer (3050)
- Huntsman (3049)
- Black Lanner (3052)
- Phantom (3052)
- Mongrel (3053)
- Coyotl (very old, in mothballs)

Heavy:
- Linebacker (3052)
- Night Gyr (3052)

Assault:
- Kingfisher (very old, but Std. Engine)
- Turkina (3052)

[I intentionally left the Std. Engine mediums and heavies out of the list]

No one can deny the Huntsman (and the Coyotl, but that's another discussion) and the Night Gyr are very good mechs.

I know you left the Lupus off on purpose, but it would be an interesting addition, the progenitor of the Mad Dog with ECM and Jump Jets....

[CK16]

I get that metaphor but I REALLY don't want the Mk.II to be saved for one of the last mechs added, I would be pretty upset by that honestly if A. having to wait and B.Enjoyment time would be shorter by a significant amount of time. If I had to wait 3 years and only get it for 2 that would SUCK!

PLUS I will say YES the Mk.II is not the best mech, its just popular. This is the issue though is just who has to wait the longest and get the enjoy their mech the least (amount of time wise) It is kinda unfair to them. Unless PGI has a plan to add an expansion kinda deal and allow us to keep our mechs and what not.

[Bishop Steiner]

CK16, on 02 April 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

I get that metaphor but I REALLY don't want the Mk.II to be saved for one of the last mechs added, I would be pretty upset by that honestly if A. having to wait and B.Enjoyment time would be shorter by a significant amount of time. If I had to wait 3 years and only get it for 2 that would SUCK!

PLUS I will say YES the Mk.II is not the best mech, its just popular. This is the issue though is just who has to wait the longest and get the enjoy their mech the least (amount of time wise) It is kinda unfair to them. Unless PGI has a plan to add an expansion kinda deal and allow us to keep our mechs and what not.

Well, considering how extensive the Mechwarrior Timeline is, the mkII would be somewhere in the second or 3rd set. And the concert would probably be more akin to a Coachella or Lollapalooza or OzzFest.

Point being, you intersperse interesting acts throughout the whole Festival, to give enticements for people to attend, and stay, all day, for all 3 days. (hence why you usually have several stage and seldom do you see "headliners" on stage at the same time frame)

also, as far as how long you get to enjoy something... we're all living on borrowed time in that regard, and somebody, somewhere draws the short straw, no matter what. Might be you. Might be me. What makes your straw, or Imps, more valuable or worthy than mine?

So that being said, and with plans for many years to come, timeline is the most "fair" method.

Goodness. Think how upset people would be if it had been set in 3015 like originally intended?

Think of how left out ALL Inner Sphere Pilots were in MW2? Clan, Clan, THEN IS. For official MW3 and 4, how much love were fan of the Succession War designs given? Very very little.

I mean, if we're gonna talk about fairness. Know how long I had to wait to get an official Hunchback? Hadn't gotten one in the actual game since MW2 Mercs (MW4 had one on a reinforcement disc but you couldn't use it in campaign). Warhammer? Not since 1990.

So, what's fair, really, my friend?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 April 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 02 April 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

Maybe the standalone format is selling better? (well, if you consider the chassis chosen until now, it should sell very well - but there is a limited number of "Classics", and less people will be willing to pay the cost of a Kodiak for a Wasp...)

Actually I have been wondering why PGI did not take the chance and bundle some of the less attractive Mechs with the Mechs that automatically sell well (like the Marauder). I mean even I would think hard about spending 20$ on a Wasp, but if it came as part of a 4-pack...? Coupled with the Marauder and the Phoenix Hawk e.g. I would have bought it immediately.

[CK16]

I know which sucks for either or not trying to sound entitled there just saying it would be upsetting for anyone in this position for any mech getting added as some of the last ones.

[Bishop Steiner]

CK16, on 02 April 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

I know which sucks for either or not trying to sound entitled there just saying it would be upsetting for anyone in this position for any mech getting added as some of the last ones.

Fortunately, even if MWO only goes up to the 3067 era, the MadCat mkII is a shoe in to be in long before the "last mechs". It's the Uziels and such that get to look forward to that. (production year 3065) The 3066 date for the mkII on Sarna is wrong.

[CK16]

Granted yes, but as much as many like the Uziel I think you brought up what does it offer besides being Tacticool over other IS mechs lol.

[wanderer]

Imperius, on 02 April 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

Congratulations to the timeline people winning, that was your goal right? You were bored and thought it would be a jolly time to derail, troll, follow, and report me and my threads, it's kinda funny though they tried to make a 4 pack and saw the issue I already knew... there are no more good clan mechs to release till 3060's

The Bane begs to differ. Maybe no more good clan OMNIs, but there's a lot of secondliners that are worth it, as the Kodiak will likely demonstrate.

The Incubus/Vixen wouldn't do badly. If we actually got Arrow IV like we should, the Naga can make an appearance (along with the IS Catapult variant that uses it), and it gives the Woodsman a Prime, A and the canonical twin AIV config that was used to pre-test the Naga, which would mean two new Omnis as well.

[Odanan]

CK16, on 02 April 2016 - 08:19 PM, said:

Granted yes, but as much as many like the Uziel I think you brought up what does it offer besides being Tacticool over other IS mechs lol.

And what does the Mad Cat MK II offer, comparing to, lets say, the Blood Asp?

When a member says "Why should I buy the Rifleman if I already own a JagerMech?", I can only answer: "You don't need to buy it if you don't want it. But someone will want it."

We reached the point that there aren't many mechs out there that will add something different (or better). Still, PGI needs to continue to release them. If PGI plans to keep MWO for more 7 years, that's at least more 80 mechs. Considering we have 68 now (counting the unreleased ones), thats a HUGE number of mechs.

They can:
- release all the Macross Unseens: Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Ostroc, Crusader, Longbow;
- release the remaining early Invasion Clan Omnimechs: Fire Moth, Pouncer, Huntsman, Kingfisher;
- release one last IS Succession Wars pack;
- release the late Invasion Clan Omnimechs: Fire Falcon, Mongrel, Black Lanner, Turkina;
- release the "counter invasion" IS mechs;
- release at least one more IIC pack;
- release at least one Clan Battlemech pack;
- release IS Omnimechs;
- release all the MW4 chassis...
...and there would still be room for more!

I know because of the repetitive nature of the game, the greatest incentive for some (me included) is to play with the desired new toy, but we got to be patient. Your favorite mech will come, just hold your horses.

Fortunately, we can see PGI is making those "big features" faster and better. With the CW Phase 3 released, they will jump on Solaris and after Solaris they will jump on Singleplayer. By 2023 we will have a very rich and complete game, with a lot of features to make almost everybody happy. And we will have almost 150 different chassis (with more than 600 different variants).

Battlefront? That's like a hot, intense summer affair. It will burn you during a couple of months, but will fade. I like to think MWO is a marriage. Enjoy it slowly - the time will build wonderful things.

Edited by Odanan, 03 April 2016 - 04:31 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Odanan, on 03 April 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

And what does the Mad Cat MK II offer, comparing to, lets say, the Blood Asp?
....

• Arm instead of ST mounted Gauss.
  
• Higher arms position.
  
• Arms which block big part of the torso.

And the Blood Asp has a protruding head (CT) which you can shoot from the side.

And of course, a BattleMech construction which is not necessarily better.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 03 April 2016 - 05:51 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Odanan, on 03 April 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

- release all the Macross Unseens: Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Ostroc, Crusader, Longbow;
- release the remaining early Invasion Clan Omnimechs: Fire Moth, Pouncer, Huntsman, Kingfisher;
- release one last IS Succession Wars pack;
- release the late Invasion Clan Omnimechs: Fire Falcon, Mongrel, Black Lanner, Turkina;
- release the "counter invasion" IS mechs;
- release at least one more IIC pack;
- release at least one Clan Battlemech pack;
- release IS Omnimechs;
- release all the MW4 chassis...
...and there would still be room for more!

To note, all of this isn't even scraping the bottom of the barrel. There are some legitimately good mechs left in here. Especially (for the Clan side) now that Clan battlemechs are in the picture. I mean, some god awful ones, too, but several good ones.

The only shame is that PGI shows no desire to introduce Quadmechs. JV might want a Scorpion, but I want my Stalking Spider.

Hit the Deck, on 03 April 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

• Arm instead of ST mounted Gauss.
  
• Higher arms position.
  
• Arms which block big part of the torso.

And the Blood Asp has a protruding head (CT) which you can shoot from the side.



And of course, a BattleMech construction which is not necessarily better.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 03 April 2016 - 12:13 PM.