20517 replies to this topic

[FLG 01]

Steinar Bergstol, on 31 July 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

The crazy thing is, of course, that unlike in the TT game the MWO Charger might actually be good rather than a laughingstock thanks to high enginecap and many energy hardpoints. Really drives home the differences between TT Battletech and MWO, doesn't it?

I'd say the concept of the Charger was always viable. I don't mean the scouting role in particular, just the general idea: It is a Mech with the movement profile of a lighter Mech at the expense of armour and armament. There is nothing inherently wrong with an 80ton cavalry Mech. The Charger just took it to an extreme - without having the technology to do so. 3025 was not a good time for the concept, and it was an extremely bad time for the Charger.

As soon as we got Star League-Tech things got better and the concept matured. Instead of scouting they focussed on quick response and skirmishing. The later CGR-3K or the Spartan are very interesting designs. Of course, one can debate how useful exactly they are on TT, but they are credible Mechs.

Since we are not stuck with 3025-Tech in MWO, there is nothing wrong with us upgrading the CGR-1A1 to make it combat ready.

And I can totally see myself doing that. I'd prefer the lighter Ostroc, but I would buy the Charger too.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 31 July 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

Macross Zero, Plus and Frontier were all good, Seven and Macross II were bad, I've not seen Delta yet so no option on it yet...

Plus had two cool valkyries, mediocre story. Probably the best of the sequels, though.


Mumbo jumbo mystic crap derailed an otherwise promising premise to Macross Zero, along with being totally out of character with the flavor of the original Macross. Frontier was Drek, with Delta looking too be a continuation of kind.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 July 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Note I said "Macross", not Macross 7, Macross II, Macross Plus, Macross Frontier, Macross Zero. I consider anything after the original as bald cash grabs. Gundams are just silly from beginning to end. (with exception of one series...can't recall which... The 08th MS Team? Which was a pretty decent basic war story...but the robots were still pretty stupid)

But given a choice, I'd take Votoms, over either.

A lot of the Universal Century (UC) series were generally good - 08th MS Team (which was basically "Gundam: Vietnam"), Stardust Memory (something of a hybrid of Gundam, Top Gun, and Firefox), War in the Pocket (a particularly poignant anti-war story), and Thunderbolt (a side-story to the original Mobile Suit Gundam, with a pretty good jazz soundtrack) stand out as particularly good off-the-top-of-my-head examples.

As far as alternate universes (that is, non-UC), I personally liked Iron-Blooded Orphans, and Wing & 00 (the latter being very much a spiritual successor to the former) are fairly solid for what they are.
Even G Gundam has its place, as an homage to the super robot series that preceded Gundam (e.g. Getter, Mazinger, etc).

If you want truly bad Gundam (why!?), see Reconguista in G ("reconguista" is based on "reconquista"; the Japanese test audience prefered a voiced "g" in the title which necessitated the change) and G-Savior (the first - and, so far, last - attempt at a live-action Gundam project).

[Metus regem]

Strum Wealh, on 31 July 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

A lot of the Universal Century (UC) series were generally good - 08th MS Team (which was basically "Gundam: Vietnam"), Stardust Memory (something of a hybrid of Gundam, Top Gun, and Firefox), War in the Pocket (a particularly poignant anti-war story), and Thunderbolt (a side-story to the original Mobile Suit Gundam, with a pretty good jazz soundtrack) stand out as particularly good off-the-top-of-my-head examples.

As far as alternate universes (that is, non-UC), I personally liked Iron-Blooded Orphans, and Wing & 00 (the latter being very much a spiritual successor to the former) are fairly solid for what they are.
Even G Gundam has its place, as an homage to the super robot series that preceded Gundam (e.g. Getter, Mazinger, etc).

If you want truly bad Gundam (why!?), see Reconguista in G ("reconguista" is based on "reconquista"; the Japanese test audience prefered a voiced "g" in the title which necessitated the change) and G-Savior (the first - and, so far, last - attempt at a live-action Gundam project).

I've got to say, my favorites are Star Dust Memories and 08th MS Team....

[TheArisen]

Metus regem, on 31 July 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

I've got to say, my favorites are Star Dust Memories and 08th MS Team....

Char's Counterattack is good. Personally I dislike whiny protagonists, so anytime it's an older person it's best.

[Bishop Steiner]

Personally still think the quintessential Gundam itself it's one of the least inspired mecha designs in anime

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 July 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:

Personally still think the quintessential Gundam itself it's one of the least inspired mecha designs in anime

From an in-universe perspective, the RX-78 was still a test bed unit - a high-performance test bed, but a test bed nonetheless - for the Federation's entire MS program: it's supposed to be a relatively-bare-bones, no-frills unit that serves as the prototype for other, more purpose-built (and, usually, more feature-rich) designs (the Full Armor Gundam from Thunderbolt, the nuke-toting GP-02A from Stardust Memory, the variable-form Zeta from Zeta Gundam, the high-performance NT-1 from War in the Pocket, the cheap mass-production GMs, and so on).

From a real-world perspective, it would have been far easier to animate something relatively simple like the RX-78 in 1979, than something like the Endless Waltz version of Wing Zero with the same techniques & technology (which is part of why the Gundam Wing TV series used simplified designs, while Endless Waltz & the Gundam Wing manga used the more-complex original designs).

Also, "inspired" ("of extraordinary quality, as if arising from some external creative impulse"; "outstanding or brilliant in a way or to a degree suggestive of divine inspiration") is really a nebulous criterion for judging something, yes?

• Would you say that the basic ATM-09-ST Scopedog is an "inspired" design? What of the Gears, from Heavy Gear?
  
• Is the Getter-1, the primary form of the first popular combining mecha, an "inspired" design, or an "uninspired" one? What about Getter-2 and Getter-3? What about Shin Getter 1/2/3?
  
• Is the basic AV-98 Ingram an "inspired" design?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 31 July 2016 - 08:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 31 July 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

From an in-universe perspective, the RX-78 was still a test bed unit - a high-performance test bed, but a test bed nonetheless - for the Federation's entire MS program: it's supposed to be a relatively-bare-bones, no-frills unit that serves as the prototype for other, more purpose-built (and, usually, more feature-rich) designs (the Full Armor Gundam from Thunderbolt, the nuke-toting GP-02A from Stardust Memory, the variable-form Zeta from Zeta Gundam, the high-performance NT-1 from War in the Pocket, the cheap mass-production GMs, and so on).

From a real-world perspective, it would have been far easier to animate something relatively simple like the RX-78 in 1979, than something like the Endless Waltz version of Wing Zero with the same techniques & technology (which is part of why the Gundam Wing TV series used simplified designs, while Endless Waltz & the Gundam Wing manga used the more-complex original designs).

Also, "inspired" ("of extraordinary quality, as if arising from some external creative impulse"; "outstanding or brilliant in a way or to a degree suggestive of divine inspiration") is really a nebulous criterion for judging something, yes?

• Would you say that the basic ATM-09-ST Scopedog is an "inspired" design? What of the Gears, from Heavy Gear?
  
• Is the Getter-1, the primary form of the first popular combining mecha, an "inspired" design, or an "uninspired" one? What about Getter-2 and Getter-3? What about Shin Getter 1/2/3?
  
• Is the basic AV-98 Ingram an "inspired" design?

Getter Robo, Gachiman, etc, uninspired.

AV-98 and Scopedog, while relatively no frills, were very detailed and"believable" designs that fit their in universe fluff very well. They were of the same basic school of design that delivered Macross, Dougram, etc. Articulated, sensible in design (as sensible as a mechanical could be, anyhow) not Transor-Z school of bendy metal with no actual articulation that spanned Getter, Gatchiman, Gundam and the G1 Transformers.

Perhaps it's sacrilege to some. I don't care. Even as a child I found the designs boring and dull. The first anime to tickle my fancy was Starblazers ( which had it's share of boring designs, but the Argo /Yamado was cool). Then came Voltron, which was ok, better than American cartoons at the time.... But what first blew my mind was Robotech. And thru the Robotech Defenders model sets, I learned of Fang of the Sun Dougram (shadow hawk/ Dougram wad my first mechs model). Then I got my hands on VOTOMs.... Didn't love all the designs, but they fit. They made sense. The Gundam never did. I've never been a fan of them, their stories, etc.

Sue me.

[CK16]

Sooo today is the day we might get a hint at the next mech? Assuming new one drops tomorrow. Any guesses? I almost want to bet on Bushwacker.....or maybe Stinger and/or Wasp.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 01 August 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

Sooo today is the day we might get a hint at the next mech? Assuming new one drops tomorrow. Any guesses? I almost want to bet on Bushwacker.....or maybe Stinger and/or Wasp.

As much as I would like the Bushwacker, she runs into a problem with the current release system, with out FutureTech™ she only has 3 viable variants, not enough by the current system of 5 variants + hero.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 01 August 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

As much as I would like the Bushwacker, she runs into a problem with the current release system, with out FutureTech™ she only has 3 viable variants, not enough by the current system of 5 variants + hero.

Yes, 3 variants:

- BSW-X1: 3053
- BSW-X2: 3054
- BSW-S2: 3056

Only the first is (barely) time-wise, but the other two have current tech, so, like the Kodiak, could be released in the game, bending the timeline. Other variants use weapons there aren't in MWO.

Honestly, I would prefer if PGI released the remaining Macross Unseen and a few leftover essential IS mechs before the time jump. Bushwacker is a solid choice for AFTER the timejump.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Metus regem, on 01 August 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

As much as I would like the Bushwacker, she runs into a problem with the current release system, with out FutureTech™ she only has 3 viable variants, not enough by the current system of 5 variants + hero.

The thing I'm wondering is, are we ever going to receive any additional new weapons in the game?

If not, PGI could always compensate by giving the Bushwacker some better weapon quirks or small hard point inflation. If they do plan on adding some newer weapons, and are waiting to launch the Bushwacker because of it, then hurry up already!

[CK16]

Odanan, on 01 August 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Yes, 3 variants:

- BSW-X1: 3053
- BSW-X2: 3054
- BSW-S2: 3056

Only the first is (barely) time-wise, but the other two have current tech, so, like the Kodiak, could be released in the game, bending the timeline. Other variants use weapons there aren't in MWO.

Honestly, I would prefer if PGI released the remaining Macross Unseen and a few leftover essential IS mechs before the time jump. Bushwacker is a solid choice for AFTER the timejump.

Some of the unseens sure, but come on....all the OST mechs? Yuck!!!! They would suck unless quirked to hell and back.

[Odanan]

CK16, on 01 August 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Some of the unseens sure, but come on....all the OST mechs? Yuck!!!! They would suck unless quirked to hell and back.

Except for the Ostscout, the other OSTs are pretty decent (and Ostroc is a beast).

But I said Unseens (Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Crusader and Longbow). The Ost-stuff were not Unseens anymore for some time.

[CK16]

Odanan, on 01 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Except for the Ostscout, the other OSTs are pretty decent (and Ostroc is a beast).

But I said Unseens (Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Crusader and Longbow). The Ost-stuff were not Unseens anymore for some time.

My bad, thought they were my bad. Just know a few look goofy lol.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 01 August 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Except for the Ostscout, the other OSTs are pretty decent (and Ostroc is a beast).

But I said Unseens (Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Crusader and Longbow). The Ost-stuff were not Unseens anymore for some time.

Not sure how that computes? They were (loosely) based off of the Zentraedi Battlepods, thus putting them in the same category as the other HG Unseen. It's just that for the most part, nobody cared.

[FLG 01]

CK16, on 01 August 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

My bad, thought they were my bad. Just know a few look goofy lol.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to judge then. As Odanan said, the Ostsol and Ostroc would perform rather well.
Furthermore, we just saw a redesign of the Ostscout which I think is nice:



The other Mechs of the series probably get a similar make-over.
And then there is Alex.

[xVLFBERHxT]

What is with the primitives (i.e. Mackie, Gladiator, EMPEROR!!!)?

[Brain Cancer]

We could actually get away with the Striker and probably the Mackie, maybe some of the earlier House firsties like the Gladiator.

[Metus regem]

TrapJaw80, on 01 August 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

What is with the primitives (i.e. Mackie, Gladiator, EMPEROR!!!)?

The Mackie has a variant that isn't primitive....