20517 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

Pretty simply deduction. It's not a 100% given, BUT if HBS/PGI were lookign to add any more shared mechs to the initial Battletech release, one would logically conclude that any remaining IS Mechs added for now, would be 3025 compatible.

There are still quite a few not only requested by MWO players, but that would be potentially solid performers in MWO, also, without requiring scads of made up variants to make happen.

Admittedly, the Lights are probably just out of luck, because of PGI's MechPack/MC/Cbill model totally undermining Light Mech perceived Value.

That said, one could easily see the Assassin, Vulcan, Dervish, Crusader or Charger added as all have enough variants (barely, in some cases, except maybe the Dervish) for a PGI base Mech Pack, and most aside from the Dervish and Vulcan I would say are just as requested as the Bushwhacker. And that is without looking at various 2750 TRO designs that have 3025 extant versions still running around (Sentinel, Wyvern, Champion, Lancelot, Flashman, Thug, Crockett, etc).

The Bushwhacker itself is fine, not exciting to me, but does appeal to at least a portion of the MW3/4 fanbase. But if they were looking to continue to get more mechs under the wire for HBS, it is a poor choice to add NOW, especially since the most probably next will be another Clan Mech as they try to get back to the 1:1 IS/Clan release schedule.

Is there a very very small possibility of one more timeline useful IS Mech appearing, just under the wire? Yes. But highly highly unlikely. Good business planning would be to release any "joint" models first.

I understand your reasoning I just don't necessarily agree with your conclusion. We don't really know what is going on behind the scenes and what mechs have models already and what don't. Just because PGI chose the Bushwacker as their next mech pack to sell doesn't mean they haven't done basic modeling for the Crusader, Assassin, and Charger that they plan on selling for example. With the basic modeling potentially being done HBS could already have access to them even if we don't know about them. Like I said we still have two unknown mechs for Battletech if I understand correctly, and while HBS may know what they are they are not going to announce them until PGI decides to.

[FLG 01]

Clownwarlord, on 07 September 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

Yeah that is the most butt ugly mech I have ever seen, and I do not mean the concept art, I mean the mech just is that ugly.

The Bushwacker is ugly. I have only seen one official artwork to make it look 'not-ugly', and that is the very first:



Some attack helicopter vibes (Apache, Cobra, Commanche), but surely she is not a beauty.

I will make my judgement on PGI's take when I see all the concept art and the complete orthos. (And final judgement will have to wait for the 3D-model anyway).

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 07 September 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I understand your reasoning I just don't necessarily agree with your conclusion. We don't really know what is going on behind the scenes and what mechs have models already and what don't. Just because PGI chose the Bushwacker as their next mech pack to sell doesn't mean they haven't done basic modeling for the Crusader, Assassin, and Charger that they plan on selling for example. With the basic modeling potentially being done HBS could already have access to them even if we don't know about them. Like I said we still have two unknown mechs for Battletech if I understand correctly, and while HBS may know what they are they are not going to announce them until PGI decides to.

Actually, basic modeling doesn't begin until sometime after the announcement. Thus It's highly unlikely even the bushwhacker is being modeled yet. And there certainly is not a secret Comstar Depot of ready to go mech models hidden under Hilton Head!

[Metus regem]

FLG 01, on 07 September 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

The Bushwacker is ugly. I have only seen one official artwork to make it look 'not-ugly', and that is the very first:



Some attack helicopter vibes (Apache, Cobra, Commanche), but surely she is not a beauty.

I will make my judgement on PGI's take when I see all the concept art and the complete orthos. (And final judgement will have to wait for the 3D-model anyway).

The Bushwacker is like the Apache, a beautiful ugly... mind you Apaches have a special place in my heart, since I used to fly them... Both are meant to do a job, not a very nice job and not a job where you have to be pretty.

[Bishop Steiner]

FLG 01, on 07 September 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

The Bushwacker is ugly. I have only seen one official artwork to make it look 'not-ugly', and that is the very first:



Some attack helicopter vibes (Apache, Cobra, Commanche), but surely she is not a beauty.

I will make my judgement on PGI's take when I see all the concept art and the complete orthos. (And final judgement will have to wait for the 3D-model anyway).

always used that as my basis for my home grown mod of the Whacker. And I agree it's probably the best representation of it, still.

[Clownwarlord]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

concept ar doesn't help with how crabbed the arms "appear" to the torso but also plenty of jsut bad aestehtic choices, both in base design and PGIs tic-tac lego guns

and nod to cartoon or not..the paintjob does nothing to help it.

That's a paint job? I thought they just left the paint on the parts from their original mech before picking off that mech and putting it on this mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 07 September 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

The Bushwacker is like the Apache, a beautiful ugly... mind you Apaches have a special place in my heart, since I used to fly them... Both are meant to do a job, not a very nice job and not a job where you have to be pretty.

What do you think of the "beautiful ugliness" of the mkV Super Hinds?

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Actually, basic modeling doesn't begin until sometime after the announcement. Thus It's highly unlikely even the bushwhacker is being modeled yet. And there certainly is not a secret Comstar Depot of ready to go mech models hidden under Hilton Head!

I'm trying to be optimistic here... work with me a little dang it.
You are probably right I'm just saying we really don't know for certain.
That being said assuming you are correct what is your guess for the final two mechs in Battletech and why haven't they spilled the beans yet?

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

What do you think of the "beautiful ugliness" of the mkV Super Hinds?

With caution... It's interesting to see what looks like a FLIR on the nose of this variant...

I've always had a healthy professional respect for the Hind series, but they are not with out their faults.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 07 September 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm trying to be optimistic here... work with me a little dang it.
You are probably right I'm just saying we really don't know for certain.
That being said assuming you are correct what is your guess for the final two mechs in Battletech and why haven't they spilled the beans yet?

final two mechs? Not sure what you are talking about, can you link me a post? Last I heard even the Pixie and Cyclops were not actualyl confirmed, and that the speculation was whether either of them would make it in game.

Metus regem, on 07 September 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

With caution... It's interesting to see what looks like a FLIR on the nose of this variant...

I've always had a healthy professional respect for the Hind series, but they are not with out their faults.

well, nothing does everything..at least well. They always seemed more like a good way to kinda combine a SpecOps Team and Spooky support into one cohesive package, more than an actual "Attack" Chopper... since I always heard their mobility was not up to snuff in that regard.

[Clownwarlord]

Why is it that the bushwhacker I feel is a mech that was glued together in a junk yard and then thrown in Solaris at the lowest tier of competition

[Bishop Steiner]

Clownwarlord, on 07 September 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Why is it that the bushwhacker I feel is a mech that was glued together in a junk yard and then thrown in Solaris at the lowest tier of competition

it does look a lot more piecemeal than the piecemeal Cataphract, doesn't it?

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

well, nothing does everything..at least well. They always seemed more like a good way to kinda combine a SpecOps Team and Spooky support into one cohesive package, more than an actual "Attack" Chopper... since I always heard their mobility was not up to snuff in that regard.

No they really don't... They also have issues doing a vertical take off...

But considering that they are more like a UH-60 Black Hawk + AH-64 Apache rolled into one unit, yea they are going to take a hit on mobility.... General rule was, if you see a Hind, watch out for shoulder fired rockets from the ground...

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 07 September 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

No they really don't... They also have issues doing a vertical take off...

But considering that they are more like a UH-60 Black Hawk + AH-64 Apache rolled into one unit, yea they are going to take a hit on mobility.... General rule was, if you see a Hind, watch out for shoulder fired rockets from the ground...

I hear that was the general rule for the Hind Pilot, too, though. At least in Afghanistan. I need to check to see how they are doing with IR baffles on their exhaust, these days. I'm curious about that, combat ceiling and payload these days (including any smart weapons) but seem to find precious little on them.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 September 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

final two mechs? Not sure what you are talking about, can you link me a post? Last I heard even the Pixie and Cyclops were not actualyl confirmed, and that the speculation was whether either of them would make it in game.

I will attempt to find what I am referring too, but their search function seems more screwy than the one here. I feel like they said there would be 36 launch mechs??? We know 34 I believe, but you might be right about the Cyclops and Pixie not being confirmed so I could easily see those as the final two.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 07 September 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

I will attempt to find what I am referring too, but their search function seems more screwy than the one here. I feel like they said there would be 36 launch mechs??? We know 34 I believe, but you might be right about the Cyclops and Pixie not being confirmed so I could easily see those as the final two.

yeah, I'd be curious to know, too, as I agree, their search is...less than optimal. Plus I have been kind of avoiding their forums because of a certain overly eager Mod. (And the urge to occasionally strangle PH over his brainwashed 1950s propaganda super saccharine everything is wonderful posts, lol)

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

yeah, I'd be curious to know, too, as I agree, their search is...less than optimal. Plus I have been kind of avoiding their forums because of a certain overly eager Mod. (And the urge to occasionally strangle PH over his brainwashed 1950s propaganda super saccharine everything is wonderful posts, lol)

I gave up on searching their forums and made a thread. Someone posted a list of what I am assuming is the current list of mechs...
LIGHT: Locust, Commando, Spider, Firestarter, Jenner, Panther, Raven, Urbanmech
MEDIUM: Cicada, Blackjack, Vindicator, Centurion, Enforcer, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk, Wolverine
HEAVY: Dragon, Quickdraw, Catapult, JagerMech, Thunderbolt, Cataphract, Grasshopper, Orion, Marauder, Warhammer
ASSAULT: Awesome, Victor, Zeus, BattleMaster, Stalker, Highlander, Banshee, King Crab, Atlas

*Notably missing from the list are the Rifleman, Archer, Black Knight, Phoenix Hawk, Crab, and Cyclops. Some are still possibilities it seems while others are not. Cyclops looks to be a firm no for now while the Archer and Rifleman still have some hope.

Assuming that list is correct I would say even if they announced something else other than the Bushwacker it would have been unlikely to add to the game.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 07 September 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

I gave up on searching their forums and made a thread. Someone posted a list of what I am assuming is the current list of mechs...
LIGHT: Locust, Commando, Spider, Firestarter, Jenner, Panther, Raven, Urbanmech
MEDIUM: Cicada, Blackjack, Vindicator, Centurion, Enforcer, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk, Wolverine
HEAVY: Dragon, Quickdraw, Catapult, JagerMech, Thunderbolt, Cataphract, Grasshopper, Orion, Marauder, Warhammer
ASSAULT: Awesome, Victor, Zeus, BattleMaster, Stalker, Highlander, Banshee, King Crab, Atlas

*Notably missing from the list are the Rifleman, Archer, Black Knight, Phoenix Hawk, Crab, and Cyclops. Some are still possibilities it seems while others are not. Cyclops looks to be a firm no for now while the Archer and Rifleman still have some hope.

Assuming that list is correct I would say even if they announced something else other than the Bushwacker it would have been unlikely to add to the game.

Quite possible, though my understanding is that Mitch and crew have kept tight lips on just what did make the cutoff. It's possible they don't want to commit because if they find they are ahead of schedule, possibly others might be added?

Crab doesn't hurt my feelings because honestly, they were quite rare (honestly, the Highlander should be nearly non existent too, ditto Black Knights and the Catapult uncommon). Cyclops I would have liked to seen in, but still very very rare. As ALL Assaults should be.

Assaults made up for less than 10% the total mechs extent in the IS at this time (One reason I hate the MWO MM system, which should only allow 1-2 assaults per team, the 2 being for Steiner House units, being notoriously top heavy). But the Stalker was the most common Assault, and it was rare. From figures posted I would guess Banshee's as number 2, but mostly because they are usually relegated to backwater militias and rarely say battle.

Archer is probably the most common heavy, with over 100k having been constructed over the years... be a real shame if it were absent, and doubly so if Catapults were over-represented in it's place.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 September 2016 - 01:36 PM.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Quite possible, though my understanding is that Mitch and crew have kept tight lips on just what did make the cutoff. It's possible they don't want to commit because if they find they are ahead of schedule, possibly others might be added?

Crab doesn't hurt my feelings because honestly, they were quite rare (honestly, the Highlander should be nearly non existent too, ditto Black Knights and the Catapult uncommon). Cyclops I would have liked to seen in, but still very very rare. As ALL Assaults should be.

I saw a recent post in the Ask the Devs section where Mitch pretty much flat out said no on the Cyclops. Personally, I find that to be really unfortunate because I think that mech has the most potential to be an interesting game changer in turn based play depending on what they did with the battle computer. Crab not being there doesn't bother me much either, but the Archer and Rifleman not being there would be a real let down. However, from what people were saying the Archer and Rifleman have the strongest chance of still making the cut.
Obviously we are going to need several expansions to cover all of our needs and desires.

[Bishop Steiner]

my latest 3025 mech for my campaign (eventually I'll get to play it!)

Basically, it's a "what if" the Wolfhound Project had been run like contracts are handled today, with multiple manufacturers in the running, trying to meet the objective in different ways, hoping to win the contract.

In this case, it's an entry from General Motors. They basically downsized their GM Marauder chassis, to build a 35 ton mech, hoping to capitalize on the popularity of the Marauder mech. By adding 4 JJs to the torsos, GM matched the movement profile of the DCMS Panther, along with it's overall armor levels. Likewise they retained one of the Magna Hellstar PPCs, moved to the right torso dorsal mount, allowing it to match the Panther's long range punch.

For in-fighting, they chose to forgo the Panther's SRMs, and instead mounted a quartet of Magna MKII Medium Lasers, 2 per arm, allowing for not only a heavier punch but much quicker responsiveness in CQB scenarios. A pair of hand actuators were included to allow it better hand to hand capabilities, versatility as a raider, etc. As a final touch, a single 20mm chain gun was mounted just beneath the cockpit to deal with any infantry threats it might encounter in the Urban Battlefields it was intended for.


While a capable design, able to best Panthers and Jenners in combat trials, it was essentially too similar to the Panther's they were to be facing. It did last all the way to the final testing against TharHes Industries WLF-X Wolfhound design. There, the Wolfhounds greater speed and tactical flexibility was just too apparent, and as such, the contract was granted for the Wolfhound. The "Mini-MAD" as it had been dubbed, was to be shipped back to Kathil along with the nearly dozen prototypes, but the shipment was apparently hijacked en route, and never arrived back at the GM factories.

Thoughts?