20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 23 March 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

I'd say the Men Shen would be more likely because it's winning it's weight bracket over the Avatar.

Men Who?

[BLOOD WOLF]

Odanan, on 23 March 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

Men Who?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Men_Shen

one of the coolest mechs made

[Bishop Steiner]

BLOOD WOLF, on 23 March 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Men_Shen

one of the coolest mechs made

I've heard people menshen it, but never seen anyone voluntarily play it. Bet it just becomes the next Kintaro, where everyone thinks they want it... and then it just disappears.

[Odanan]

BLOOD WOLF, on 23 March 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Men_Shen

one of the coolest mechs made

I know. I was just kidding with the fact this is not a very well known mech..

Personally, I think PGI will focus in mechs that features in MW3 and MW4 this year.

[Rakshasa]

Odanan, on 23 March 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

I know. I was just kidding with the fact this is not a very well known mech..

Personally, I think PGI will focus in mechs that features in MW3 and MW4 this year.

Words like that give me hope that one day PGI will make the Champion in MWO. Then I remember it probably wouldn't be 'meta', and feel only sadness.

[SuperFunkTron]

It'd be nice to see PGI start prioritizing mechs in a way to balance out the numbers present in the various factions. I'd like to see them start doing one "older" and one "newer" mech for both the clans and IS.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

I've heard people menshen it,

I see what you did there very nice

Odanan, on 23 March 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

I know. I was just kidding with the fact this is not a very well known mech..

Personally, I think PGI will focus in mechs that features in MW3 and MW4 this year.

you think? Would be nice. Imagine the cool titles they can come up with.

[Virlutris]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

I've heard people menshen it, but never seen anyone voluntarily play it. Bet it just becomes the next Kintaro, where everyone thinks they want it... and then it just disappears.

This reminds me that I wanted to take the KTO-19 out and mech'speriment a bit.

Then again, I do have those Vipers, and ... what was I talking about again?

[The Lighthouse]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 March 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

No. Cougar bad. But Uziel will be just as. Low cockpit. Terribad hit boxes. Mediocre everything else.

Unfortunately, tons of people still have fond memories of Uziel.

I actually think about pre-ordering Cougar though. It is my one of the most favorite Clan Light mech when I played Mech Commander 1.
However, it seems even Urbie can run faster with max engine. And with incredibly bad hitboxes and less-than-average hardpoints, I expect to last about 15 seconds once someone decides to focus on me in battlefields.


Other than Mad Cat IIC, all other three mechs are... really bad. But people want to have them.

[Bishop Steiner]

The Lighthouse, on 25 March 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

Unfortunately, tons of people still have fond memories of Uziel.

I actually think about pre-ordering Cougar though. It is my one of the most favorite Clan Light mech when I played Mech Commander 1.
However, it seems even Urbie can run faster with max engine. And with incredibly bad hitboxes and less-than-average hardpoints, I expect to last about 15 seconds once someone decides to focus on me in battlefields.


Other than Mad Cat IIC, all other three mechs are... really bad. But people want to have them.

yup. which is a good enough reason to add them... but the danger is ho wmany people who want them actually think they will be good, without objectively looking at them, in the MWO environment. I LOVED the Uzi in MW4, was my fave Medium to use. But that was in PvE (PvP I seldom ran Mediums), and with clantech weapons. The Anni has long been a favorite... but I'm a realist about the size, hitboxes and hardpoint location. I may still get both, but only for Cbills and Nostalgia.

[The Lighthouse]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

yup. which is a good enough reason to add them... but the danger is ho wmany people who want them actually think they will be good, without objectively looking at them, in the MWO environment. I LOVED the Uzi in MW4, was my fave Medium to use. But that was in PvE (PvP I seldom ran Mediums), and with clantech weapons. The Anni has long been a favorite... but I'm a realist about the size, hitboxes and hardpoint location. I may still get both, but only for Cbills and Nostalgia.

Annihilator can be possibly good if torso hardpoints are a bit high and arms are not too low.

Uzi suffers Stormcrow syndrome of course, but the hardpoint locations are... actually quite good. Both Ann and Uzi are something I reserve my judgements: we have to see how the in-game models are going to be.
Both Uzi and Ann won't be great mechs, but can be good mechs.

Cougar will be probably the worst Clan light mech no question. Probably it will be the worst light mech.

Kind of curious if Mad Cat IIC's cat ears are going to be removed if no missiles are equipped.

[SuperFunkTron]

I think that the mass nostalgia is reason enough to add some of these mechs. I think PGI has been doing a pretty solid job lately with the mechs they've added over the last year and I'd prefer to see these "non-ultimate" mechs coming in rather than creating more problems with power creep. Many of the mechs that people were claiming would be dead on arrival (linebacker, supernova,etc) actually turned out to be solid mechs in their own right. Despite not ever buying IS mechs for MC, I am actually looking forward to those both the Uziel and Annihilator to come out for c-bills.

And I'm not sure if I'm the only one noticing this, but a lot of previously "dead" mechs seem to be making a come back lately. I've seen more dragons, victors, commandos and orions lately. I would have assumed that it was just for "nostalgia" but their match scores have shown that they are far from mediocre.

With their recent track record, I have to say that I actually trust PGI to make these worthwhile mechs when they release.

[Bishop Steiner]

SuperFunkTron, on 25 March 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

I think that the mass nostalgia is reason enough to add some of these mechs. I think PGI has been doing a pretty solid job lately with the mechs they've added over the last year and I'd prefer to see these "non-ultimate" mechs coming in rather than creating more problems with power creep. Many of the mechs that people were claiming would be dead on arrival (linebacker, supernova,etc) actually turned out to be solid mechs in their own right. Despite not ever buying IS mechs for MC, I am actually looking forward to those both the Uziel and Annihilator to come out for c-bills.

And I'm not sure if I'm the only one noticing this, but a lot of previously "dead" mechs seem to be making a come back lately. I've seen more dragons, victors, commandos and orions lately. I would have assumed that it was just for "nostalgia" but their match scores have shown that they are far from mediocre.

With their recent track record, I have to say that I actually trust PGI to make these worthwhile mechs when they release.

Possibly we are seeing a trend toward non Competitive tier players realizing that "Viable" is often good enough? Too often the forums, etc have pushed only use the most "Optimal" design and weapon... even going so far as to confuse the two terms (as in only optimal mechs are viable).

Probably not..too much to hope for. Yet I look at how fun the ASN has been...and effective. Meta? Likely not. Not even likely to carry against a mass rush. But used right, very effective.

The Lighthouse, on 25 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Annihilator can be possibly good if torso hardpoints are a bit high and arms are not too low.

Uzi suffers Stormcrow syndrome of course, but the hardpoint locations are... actually quite good. Both Ann and Uzi are something I reserve my judgements: we have to see how the in-game models are going to be.
Both Uzi and Ann won't be great mechs, but can be good mechs.

Cougar will be probably the worst Clan light mech no question. Probably it will be the worst light mech.

Kind of curious if Mad Cat IIC's cat ears are going to be removed if no missiles are equipped.

Anni will benefit when engine/twist desync finally happens.. or should. But hard to be in love with it's hitboxes. Still, 4x AC10, or AC10s/PPCs, etc is still some pain.

Uziel's biggest issue is that the ballistics and Missile hardpoints are largely... not terribly useful on the design, though addition of future tech ballistics might help... but can't see anything overcoming the low cockpit/archer meets Ebon Jag torso geometry. Especially if one uses IS XLs.

Will either DoA? Probably not. Underwhelming? Safe bet.

[The Lighthouse]

SuperFunkTron, on 25 March 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

I think that the mass nostalgia is reason enough to add some of these mechs. I think PGI has been doing a pretty solid job lately with the mechs they've added over the last year and I'd prefer to see these "non-ultimate" mechs coming in rather than creating more problems with power creep. Many of the mechs that people were claiming would be dead on arrival (linebacker, supernova,etc) actually turned out to be solid mechs in their own right. Despite not ever buying IS mechs for MC, I am actually looking forward to those both the Uziel and Annihilator to come out for c-bills.

And I'm not sure if I'm the only one noticing this, but a lot of previously "dead" mechs seem to be making a come back lately. I've seen more dragons, victors, commandos and orions lately. I would have assumed that it was just for "nostalgia" but their match scores have shown that they are far from mediocre.

With their recent track record, I have to say that I actually trust PGI to make these worthwhile mechs when they release.

Argh, people play all sorts of the mechs that are purchasable with C-bills. Whether mechs are dead or not, I do see Vindicators being played in QP... but it does not mean that the mech is good.

The very best indicators are seeing what mechs are being played in Faction Warfare and competitive play, and look at the popularity of the mechs that are just released.

For example, when MAD IIC was released.... pretty much only assault mechs I've saw was MAD IIC for the whole month.

When Bushwacker was released, I do see them during the leaderboard event, and it quickly disappeared even from QP after very short while, even though there is a huge nostalgia attached to that mech.

And we are not seeing Assassin even during the leaderboard event right now lol (despite I'd argue Assassin is a bit better than Bushwackers in several ways.)

[Bishop Steiner]

The Lighthouse, on 25 March 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

Argh, people play all sorts of the mechs that are purchasable with C-bills. Whether mechs are dead or not, I do see Vindicators being played in QP... but it does not mean that the mech is good.

The very best indicators are seeing what mechs are being played in Faction Warfare and competitive play, and look at the popularity of the mechs that are just released.

For example, when MAD IIC was released.... pretty much only assault mechs I've saw was MAD IIC for the whole month.

When Bushwacker was released, I do see them during the leaderboard event, and it quickly disappeared even from QP after very short while, even though there is a huge nostalgia attached to that mech.

And we are not seeing Assassin even during the leaderboard event right now lol (despite I'd argue Assassin is a bit better than Bushwackers in several ways.)

some of it also depends on tier... at tier 1, you will likely see less sub optimal designs than a 2er like me. That said, I don't think anyone was calling them "good" as much as simply noting a mild resurgence of some chassis. But I admit the ASN is a light presence, 1-2 in a match on a good match, and often I'm the only one.

A pity, as it's actually proving quite decent.

[The Lighthouse]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 March 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

Uziel's biggest issue is that the ballistics and Missile hardpoints are largely... not terribly useful on the design, though addition of future tech ballistics might help... but can't see anything overcoming the low cockpit/archer meets Ebon Jag torso geometry. Especially if one uses IS XLs.

Will either DoA? Probably not. Underwhelming? Safe bet.

I have to disagree with this. Yeah, sure missile pod is at the Center torso, so only ones with 2 slots are permitted. But Ballistics hardpoints are really good. The standard package provides one variant that has Ballistics at side torsos, and one at arms. And Uzi's arms are exactly at the cockpit height.

For hardpoint locations, Uzi is virtually flawless. At worst Uzi can be used as jumping sniper with PPCs.

[Bishop Steiner]

The Lighthouse, on 25 March 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

I have to disagree with this. Yeah, sure missile pod is at the Center torso, so only ones with 2 slots are permitted. But Ballistics hardpoints are really good. The standard package provides one variant that has Ballistics at side torsos, and one at arms. And Uzi's arms are exactly at the cockpit height.

For hardpoint locations, Uzi is virtually flawless. At worst Uzi can be used as jumping sniper with PPCs.

I say the ballistics are not going to be great because at 50 tons, you have to give up a lot to really use them. paired RAC2s might work, but heavier ballistics you give up a lot. And while the arms are at cockpit height, there is a lot of the mech above the cockpit exposed, to get to those.

So to really maximize ballistics you will have to give up some mobility, on a mediocre to bad geometry robot. I'm not going to cheerlead that as a good thing.

[SuperFunkTron]

The Lighthouse, on 25 March 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

The very best indicators are seeing what mechs are being played in Faction Warfare and competitive play, and look at the popularity of the mechs that are just released.

For example, when MAD IIC was released.... pretty much only assault mechs I've saw was MAD IIC for the whole month.

When Bushwacker was released, I do see them during the leaderboard event, and it quickly disappeared even from QP after very short while, even though there is a huge nostalgia attached to that mech.

I agree, the residual population of the mech is a generally a solid indicator of which mechs are "good", but it is just that, a general indicator. It really comes down to individual play styles and preferences more than anything else. Despite the MAD IIC being considered the most powerful 85 ton mech out right now, I was able to pull a 1235 damage QP match last week as well as managing to do 1950 damage in a single Warhawk prime in FP. There were plenty of threads claiming that it the Warhawk is dead, but I have found that I can consistently beat my scores in the MAD IIC.

After so many years of playing this game, I am finding that the meta is really a flavor of the month thing that passes, just like people's interest in certain mechs. I believe that many mechs very solid mechs are simply passed over for the sake of trying the meta under the impression that its the only to perform well while the guys using "non-meta" mechs provide some really unexpected surprises and I hope that they keep getting released so that the more curious and die hard fans can make these under dogs shine.

[The Lighthouse]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 March 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

I say the ballistics are not going to be great because at 50 tons, you have to give up a lot to really use them. paired RAC2s might work, but heavier ballistics you give up a lot. And while the arms are at cockpit height, there is a lot of the mech above the cockpit exposed, to get to those.

So to really maximize ballistics you will have to give up some mobility, on a mediocre to bad geometry robot. I'm not going to cheerlead that as a good thing.

Yeah... slower. But you can take either 3 AC2s or 2 UAC5s; even with current weapon setup, it is not something to be taken lightly to against.

Giving up mobility is indeed something unfortunate. But hey I play Shadow Hawk wit 75kph speed.

With Light engine Uzi can take these AC2s or UAC5 with decent speed.

[Bishop Steiner]

The Lighthouse, on 25 March 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

Yeah... slower. But you can take either 3 AC2s or 2 UAC5s; even with current weapon setup, it is not something to be taken lightly to against.

Giving up mobility is indeed something unfortunate. But hey I play Shadow Hawk wit 75kph speed.

With Light engine Uzi can take these AC2s or UAC5 with decent speed.

SHD has a lot better hitboxes though, (at least in theory) which is huge. I mean..I drive a HBK-4G as my daily driver.......