20517 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 23 May 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

There are several cool variants for the Charger, like the old tech CGR-1A9 (4 MLas, SLas, LRM/20 and jumpjets) and the high-tech CGR-SA5 (MASC, LBX-20, 3 ER MLas and 2 SSRM-6s).

That should a a fun mech to have in this game, but I guess it was pushed back to the bottom of the releasing priorities.

I once used one in a campaign game, that sported a UAC/20, LFE Endo, 3x isERML, 2x SSRM/6 with MASC (4/6[8]) with 13 DHS... she was fast and had a heck of a punch... heh I also had all the weapons torso mounted, she was a beast in CQB.... we called it a CGR-3A5

[SuperFunkTron]

I went poking through the CCG unit list and found a few more mechs I'd like to hear your input on as potential MWO candidates:
Grand Titan
Cestus
Albatross
Guillotine
Hercules
Huron Warrior
Komodo
Jackal
Pillager
Perseus
Spartan
Stealth

Fire Falcon
Black Lanner
Grendel
Phantom (after reading into the many awesome variants here, I'm a bit puzzled why it hasn't been added)


A bit of a long list not many from the Civil War era, but at a glance they each seem to have at least a pair of worthwhile variants for MWO.

I know the

[Metus regem]

SuperFunkTron, on 23 May 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Black Lanner

No, please no....

55t with a locked 385 engine + MASC that when fully armoured is boasting 11t for weapons and equipment... You do understand that for gaining 15t over the viper it only got 3t more pod space right? There are lore mechs that are 15t lighter (Coyotl has 15t of pod space on a 40t mech!), that pack more fire power and run at the same speed before MASC comes into play...

SuperFunkTron, on 23 May 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Phantom (after reading into the many awesome variants here, I'm a bit puzzled why it hasn't been added)

I'll tell you what the main problem is for the Phantom, it's 40t with a 360 XL engine with 2 locked DHS! When fully armoured it has 5.5t of pod space... the Viper is already a little under-gunned but now you are getting a mech that has less weapon space than an arctic cheetah, that is 10t lighter....

[Karl Streiger]

Doesn't have the Phantom the death by papercut 9 small laser variant
OK in mwo would be death by pocket death star and given its topspeed those 4.5t beat the 4t for the er large always
Speaking of the fire Falcon the superb c variant would be meh in mwo
"brave new world"

Heck i run a Garg total undergunned only 6t of weapons and still it beat most other configs i can think of

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 23 May 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Doesn't have the Phantom the death by papercut 9 small laser variant
OK in mwo would be death by pocket death star and given its topspeed those 4.5t beat the 4t for the er large always
Speaking of the fire Falcon the superb c variant would be meh in mwo
"brave new world"

Heck i run a Garg total undergunned only 6t of weapons and still it beat most other configs i can think of

That would be the Phantom Alt. C:

the Phantom C carries eight ER Small Lasers and a single ER Medium Laser all of which are linked to an advanced Targeting Computer for increased accuracy. The 'Mech also has a Flamer, which it can use for anti-infantry use.

Now there is no why it could pack all of that at max armour... so for MWO I'd suspect 8 ERSL + TC + ECM + up armoured and what is ever left given over to DHS... still a mean CQB punch from a mech that can give a locust a run for it's money in terms of top end speed... (151km/h out of the box for the Phantom)

[TheArisen]

SuperFunkTron, on 23 May 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

I went poking through the CCG unit list and found a few more mechs I'd like to hear your input on as potential MWO candidates:
Grand Titan
Cestus
Albatross
Guillotine
Hercules
Huron Warrior
Komodo
Jackal
Pillager
Perseus
Spartan
Stealth

Fire Falcon
Black Lanner
Grendel
Phantom (after reading into the many awesome variants here, I'm a bit puzzled why it hasn't been added)


A bit of a long list not many from the Civil War era, but at a glance they each seem to have at least a pair of worthwhile variants for MWO.

I know the

- Optim... The Grand Titan is an ok mech. It's basically an Atlas without the ballistics which would be an improvment (less ammo dependent weapons) but it'd never get Atlas quirks.
- Cestus, well we have the TBolt and thats basically what this is although I do see potential for being more xl friendly which opens some things up.
- Albatross is a 95t Atlas with a big engine and a "beak" that'd be a liability in MWO. You can't twist far enough to hide it.
- Guillotine is a GHopper, same HP's, etc. Probably shorter but wider.
- Hercules could be pretty good. Maybe not the best of the best but about T2 imo.
- Huron Warrior, it's hood thing would be a big liability but otherwise a good mech.
- Komodo would have issues using it's HP's at 45t but it'd be fun but probably not strong. (Also it looks like an obese Vulcan)
- Jackel could be a good range support but it's weapon bulge would be a target.
- Pillager is a seriously cool looking beast but in game it'd probably ditch the gauss or try a LFE + it's JJ's would practically be a waste due to weight.
- Perseus, Omni Orion with a locked 300xl... sounds painful.
- Spartan, Fast striker assault, I'd probably put a 375 in it for a little extra tonnage. I'd buy this one.
- Stealth could actually be quite good depending largely on how they do it's torsos, either strong or free kill basically.

(Since I took the time to do this, supporting the Nightstar would be great

Metus regem, on 23 May 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

That would be the Phantom Alt. C:

the Phantom C carries eight ER Small Lasers and a single ER Medium Laser all of which are linked to an advanced Targeting Computer for increased accuracy. The 'Mech also has a Flamer, which it can use for anti-infantry use.

Now there is no why it could pack all of that at max armour... so for MWO I'd suspect 8 ERSL + TC + ECM + up armoured and what is ever left given over to DHS... still a mean CQB punch from a mech that can give a locust a run for it's money in terms of top end speed... (151km/h out of the box for the Phantom)

That variant is basically the only justification for the Phantom.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 23 May 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

No, please no....

55t with a locked 385 engine + MASC that when fully armoured is boasting 11t for weapons and equipment... You do understand that for gaining 15t over the viper it only got 3t more pod space right? There are lore mechs that are 15t lighter (Coyotl has 15t of pod space on a 40t mech!), that pack more fire power and run at the same speed before MASC comes into play...

Hey, you don't need to put down the Black Lanner just to increase the (slim) chances of the Coyotl. They aren't even of similar tonnage and roles.

Since the Linebacker can be a monster (one guy in my unit made 1600 damage with it this weekend), I would love to see the Lanner in this game. (it was a favorite from the CCG and MW:LL)

Metus regem, on 23 May 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

I'll tell you what the main problem is for the Phantom, it's 40t with a 360 XL engine with 2 locked DHS! When fully armoured it has 5.5t of pod space... the Viper is already a little under-gunned but now you are getting a mech that has less weapon space than an arctic cheetah, that is 10t lighter....

Well, the Phantom is ultra fast and has ECM, but I agree it doesn't offer many build options besides (small) boating of ER SLas or ER MLas.

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 23 May 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

- Optim... The Grand Titan is an ok mech. It's basically an Atlas without the ballistics which would be an improvment (less ammo dependent weapons) but it'd never get Atlas quirks.
- Cestus, well we have the TBolt and thats basically what this is although I do see potential for being more xl friendly which opens some things up.
- Albatross is a 95t Atlas with a big engine and a "beak" that'd be a liability in MWO. You can't twist far enough to hide it.
- Guillotine is a GHopper, same HP's, etc. Probably shorter but wider.
- Hercules could be pretty good. Maybe not the best of the best but about T2 imo.
- Huron Warrior, it's hood thing would be a big liability but otherwise a good mech.
- Komodo would have issues using it's HP's at 45t but it'd be fun but probably not strong. (Also it looks like an obese Vulcan)
- Jackel could be a good range support but it's weapon bulge would be a target.
- Pillager is a seriously cool looking beast but in game it'd probably ditch the gauss or try a LFE + it's JJ's would practically be a waste due to weight.
- Perseus, Omni Orion with a locked 300xl... sounds painful.
- Spartan, Fast striker assault, I'd probably put a 375 in it for a little extra tonnage. I'd buy this one.
- Stealth could actually be quite good depending largely on how they do it's torsos, either strong or free kill basically.

(Since I took the time to do this, supporting the Nightstar would be great

...

That variant is basically the only justification for the Phantom.

This. ^

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 23 May 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Hey, you don't need to put down the Black Lanner just to increase the (slim) chances of the Coyotl. They aren't even of similar tonnage and roles.

You miss understand my point about the Coyotl, I'm highlighting the fact that a mech 15t heavier is not faster 100% of the time as well as having less free tonnage than the Coyotl. As for their roles, I would rather suggest that by both being a 7/11 they actually fill a very simliar role, mobile flanker / light hunter.

[Virlutris]

Non sequitur:

Dervish would be neat.

A c-bill variant even uses Civil War Tech (granted it's just IS ERMLs, but still).

I know, plenty of IS 55 tonners already.

Pardon me, I'm going to go back to surfing sarna.net.

[Odanan]

SuperFunkTron, on 23 May 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

I went poking through the CCG unit list and found a few more mechs I'd like to hear your input on as potential MWO candidates:
Grand Titan
Cestus
Albatross
Guillotine
Hercules
Huron Warrior
Komodo
Jackal
Pillager
Perseus
Spartan
Stealth

Fire Falcon
Black Lanner
Grendel
Phantom

Of the list, the following have more chances, IMHO:

Pillager
Spartan
Stealth

Fire Falcon
Black Lanner

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 23 May 2017 - 02:38 PM, said:

You miss understand my point about the Coyotl, I'm highlighting the fact that a mech 15t heavier is not faster 100% of the time as well as having less free tonnage than the Coyotl. As for their roles, I would rather suggest that by both being a 7/11 they actually fill a very simliar role, mobile flanker / light hunter.

Both are light hunters, but only the Black Lanner would be a light bully (to kill the light mech and survive without much damage) because, at 55 tons the Lanner has much more armor and internal structure (it also helps the fact it has ECM and MASC).

[James The Fox Dixon]

I'm going to bring up all the Land-Air Mechs as being ultimate. Can we get them please?

[Odanan]

James The Fox Dixon, on 23 May 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

I'm going to bring up all the Land-Air Mechs as being ultimate. Can we get them please?

LAMs were a... mistake.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 23 May 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

LAMs were a... mistake.

Only if you use them wrong....

Used right they are an unholy terror in 3025 era game play.... What's that you said? 15 hex movement in hybrid mode....

[James The Fox Dixon]

Odanan, on 23 May 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

LAMs were a... mistake.

Nope, they were intended and are still in BT even now. It just took a lot of skill to use them correctly.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 23 May 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

Used right they are an unholy terror in 3025 era game play.... What's that you said? 15 hex movement in hybrid mode....

That's why they are a mistake. They can broke the game. Besides, it was an ugly business to steal add them to Battletech in the first place. The Unseen we can understand (the concept arts were bought from the same studio), but there is no excuse to add the LAMs later.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Odanan, on 23 May 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

That's why they are a mistake. They can broke the game. Besides, it was an ugly business to steal add them to Battletech in the first place. The Unseen we can understand (the concept arts were bought from the same studio), but there is no excuse to add the LAMs later.

LAMs were added in TRO3025 which was published in 1986. That was two years after 2E boxed set came out. In the 2E boxed set they were mentioned for the Wasp, Stinger, and Phoenix Hawk write ups.

If you had kept up with the legal side of things, you have known that Harmony Gold actually is in the wrong. They got their license from the company that only had the redistribution rights to the TV shows outside of Japan. In 2009 or 2010, the Japanese Supreme Court ruled that Tatsunoko Production did not have the rights to license the art out. The rights are held by Studio Nue the creators of all the series used to make Robodreck. FASA got their license for the art from Studio Nue. If anyone stole anything it was Tatsunoko and HG not FASA.

EDIT: Altered my statement to highlight that Tatsunoko only had distribution rights to the show outside of Japan and nothing else.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 23 May 2017 - 06:05 PM.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 23 May 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

That's why they are a mistake. They can broke the game. Besides, it was an ugly business to steal add them to Battletech in the first place. The Unseen we can understand (the concept arts were bought from the same studio), but there is no excuse to add the LAMs later.

Yes and no... In hybrid and Aerospace mode they were really vulnerable to Crit hits.... Like one lucky Crit to any one of several points could and would take them out of the fight or cause them to crash. They were also underarmed and underarmed when compared to mechs and Aerofighters of the same weight....

Yea they needed the right mission profile to be at their best, not pulling S.A.R., S.A.D. or Raid and you are left fighting a battle that is 50-70% harder than it should be.

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 23 May 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Of the list, the following have more chances, IMHO:
[...]
Spartan
[...]

What makes you think it has chances? I am asking because I want it to have chances... The Spartan is my number two assault (after the Fafnir) and it fits my wish for a cavalry Mech. Also I have a soft spot for those rare, almost museum piece-like relics of the Star League. It is one of the Mechs I would buy with real money without hesitation.

One of its (few) pilots also had a role in the FCCW, Precentor Dag Kesselring. He commanded the 66th Division and died fighting Peter Steiner-Davion’s forces on Tharkad. Unlike the pilots of..., well you know already.

To make it work in MWO, however, PGI needs to give it a good agility. This Mech depends on its mobility, at least it should, running down lighter foes and escaping equals. With good agility, the Spartan would be a credible threat on the battlefield. It would not be a game changer, but quite alright in the hands of a cavalryman.

To some extent, you can try it out with the Zeus already. And until we get the Spartan, the new Zeus hero will be my assault cavalry Mech. (Which was graciously gifted to me! Thanks for that!)

Requiemking, on 22 May 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

Well, the Excalibur has four legal variants, and all of them would be useful as basically 70 ton Centurions. The B2 would have similar hardpoints to the CNT-AH, and the B1, B2b, and the C1 would all have a mix of all hardpoints.

Um, yeah, as I said, it is my favourite Mech. I know about its variants, and having four canonic variants – albeit without much variety – is a good thing. Also we have a fully canonical hero with a crucial role in the FCCW: Precentor Raymond Irelon. If it had not been for him and his 244th Division defecting to Victor, the civil war would have ended in his first battle. Sure, he likely piloted a stock Excalibur (though this was never confirmed), but that does not stop PGI anyway. (And before you say it, of course I know about Cernunnos).

Besides lore, the Excalibur would finally offer an IS 70ton Mech with a 5/8-movement, i.e. 81 kph stock speed. It definitely brings something new to the table, especially if you are willing to use the high speeds. With the new weaponry, it can work. (Though it does have to be mentioned that it will not be capable of carrying an AC/20 unless PGI removes an actuator).
I always wanted to use a combination of UAC/10 and HPPC with rocket backup. I am pretty sure I could terrorize some players with that. Heck, I would even try out and LGR for maximum skirmishing.

The point is that one needs to be realistic, especially when it comes to your favourite Mech. I thought if someone understood to review a Mech level-headed despite fandom, it would be you.
In TT games, the Excalibur is a killer if you can keep the distance. In MWO however, lots of factors are stacked against it, unfortunately so. If we are to push the envelope for the IS, the Excalibur would need mighty quirks. I do not like to say it, but there are currently better choices even in the cavalry Mech department.

But again, it is my favourite. I know it in and out, and I would buy it at once. I am just not campaigning hard for it, nor do I overestimate what it can do in MWO.

TheArisen, on 23 May 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

- Spartan, Fast striker assault, I'd probably put a 375 in it for a little extra tonnage. I'd buy this one.

Ah thanks, you know how to keep your allies close.