20517 replies to this topic

[Requiemking]

TheArisen, on 26 June 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

To be fair, the Wasp/Stinger are about as good as a JJ equiped 20 tonner could be although I'd bet the Locust would be better.

You don't even need to bet. Until scaling is fixed to be fair to all mechs, pretty much every 20 tonner outside of a couple are going to be strictly inferior to the Locust in nearly every way.

Edited by Requiemking, 26 June 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[TheArisen]

Metus regem, on 26 June 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

Really funny note about the Wasp and Stinger, using the 1.4 engine multipire that is used on most light mechs, they actually get a 170 series engine, I can see PGI giving them a 175 just to be nice, that makes them not much slower than a Locust while only have 2 less JJ's than a Viper... They'd be about as close to a L.A.M. as I'm likely to see in MWO any time soon....





Actually the Charger A5 and A9 are both actually pretty good, they use a 320 series engine making them 4/6 units ranter than 5/8. Doing that let the A5 become a CQB beast with AC/20 and SRM/6's, while the A9 went the long range route with LRM/20 and JJ's. When ever people focus on the Charger they always focus on the A1 that is a very flawed mech right out of the box.

Well the main reason it's flawed is because it uses a std400, xl would make it able to actually fill it's role but in game they need to inflate the HP's to at least 8 energy.

[TheArisen]

Sereglach, on 26 June 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

Personally, I'd like PGI To focus on the light end of the spectrum, but the whole spectrum. We need a lot more light chassis added. The game currently has (including confirmed chassis not in game, yet) 17 Lights (15 + Osiris and Cougar), 24 Mediums (22 + Uziel and Arctic Wolf), 23 Heavies (22 + Nova Cat), and 22 Assaults (19 + Nightstar, Annihilator, and MC MKII).

Given that we know just about any light is going to come in a mech pack alongside other weight classes, I'd love to see about 7-8 more lights added over the next couple of mech packs to catch them up. For those I'd love to see:

IS
-Wasp
-Stinger
-Mongoose
-Sling

Clan
-Piranha
-Incubus
-Commando IIC
-Fire Moth (runner up to even it out)


The Wasp . . . which I think will likely appear across from the Piranha due to popularity and later variants with new Civil War tech (like Stealth Armor) is a solid mech. I think it could be a lot stronger than credit is given. With PGI's typical hardpoint enhancement on newer chassis, just look at what we'd probably get out of these:

1A: 2-3E and 3-4M
1D or 1S: 4-6E (likely bigger defensive quirks and/or 2AMS)
1K: 2E and 4B
1W or 3W: 6E+
3L: 2E+, 2M+, and ECM

Rocket Pods, Light PPCs, L/H MGs, and ER SL will help make this a solid mech; and there's plenty of variants to show off new tech.

Sadly, without repeating a lot of hardpoints, the Stinger has a lot of gear that's still outside of timeline on most variants. As much as I want this mech it may need to wait for it to get the best release possible. However, despite running second show to the Wasp, here's what we could get for starters:
3R: 1-2E and 4-6B
3Gb: 4-7E
5M: 4E+ and 2-4AMS
6L: 4-6E+ and ECM, but no JJ

I'm still pro Nexus. However one of the reasons there's so few lights is simply because they can relatively little outside of their few playstyles due to tonnage.

[Metus regem]

TheArisen, on 26 June 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

Well the main reason it's flawed is because it uses a std400, xl would make it able to actually fill it's role but in game they need to inflate the HP's to at least 8 energy.

I know what made the A1 flawed, it's why I love the A5 and A9 so much, they are such better units... how ever I have run a version of the A1 that did use a 400XL as well as a varaint that used a 400 LFE + LFF, that being said it was never as good in TT as my B5/B9/C5/C9 versions of the A5/A9 that used XL's and LFE's respectively. I think my favourite was the C5 that I had built.

Spoiler

Charger CGR-3C5

Mass: 80 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3067
Cost: 15,051,420 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,721

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 320 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/20
2 SRM-6s w/ Artemis IV FCS
2 ER Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 122 points 8.00
Engine: Light Fusion Engine 320 17.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 15(30) 5.00
Heat Sink Locations: 3 RT
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous AV - 240 14.50
Armor Locations: 1 CT, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 25 39
Center Torso (rear) 10
L/R Torso 17 26
L/R Torso (rear) 8
L/R Arm 13 24
L/R Leg 17 33

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser HD 5 1 1.00
ER Medium Laser CT 5 1 1.00
2 SRM-6s LT 8 4 6.00
Artemis IV FCS LT - 2 2.00
Ultra AC/20 LA 8 10 15.00
@SRM-6 (Artemis) (15) LT - 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/20 (10) LT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 7

[TheArisen]

Metus regem, on 26 June 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

I know what made the A1 flawed, it's why I love the A5 and A9 so much, they are such better units... how ever I have run a version of the A1 that did use a 400XL as well as a varaint that used a 400 LFE + LFF, that being said it was never as good in TT as my B5/B9/C5/C9 versions of the A5/A9 that used XL's and LFE's respectively. I think my favourite was the C5 that I had built.

Spoiler

Charger CGR-3C5

Mass: 80 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3067
Cost: 15,051,420 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,721

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 320 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/20
2 SRM-6s w/ Artemis IV FCS
2 ER Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 122 points 8.00
Engine: Light Fusion Engine 320 17.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 15(30) 5.00
Heat Sink Locations: 3 RT
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous AV - 240 14.50
Armor Locations: 1 CT, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 25 39
Center Torso (rear) 10
L/R Torso 17 26
L/R Torso (rear) 8
L/R Arm 13 24
L/R Leg 17 33

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser HD 5 1 1.00
ER Medium Laser CT 5 1 1.00
2 SRM-6s LT 8 4 6.00
Artemis IV FCS LT - 2 2.00
Ultra AC/20 LA 8 10 15.00
@SRM-6 (Artemis) (15) LT - 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/20 (10) LT - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 7

I didn't mean to come across that way. With the mwo mechlab a 375xl/lfe would be possible. Basically, the A1 could be decent in MWO.

[TheArisen]

Almost 1 million views

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 26 June 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Almost 1 million views

Wow!
(though half of them must be mine...)

[xVLFBERHxT]

So the Mauler knock out is (by hardpoints) the Mauler Todes Bote?! Sadly the new tech has no matching weapon systems.

[Metus regem]

TheArisen, on 26 June 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

I didn't mean to come across that way. With the mwo mechlab a 375xl/lfe would be possible. Basically, the A1 could be decent in MWO.

But just think a 320*1.2 gives us an engine cap of 385, now thing how good the A9 and A5 could be with a 375 LFE!

[Sereglach]

TheArisen, on 26 June 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm still pro Nexus. However one of the reasons there's so few lights is simply because they can relatively little outside of their few playstyles due to tonnage.

The Nexus isn't bad at all; and I daresay I would have no problems swapping out the Stinger or Sling from my list with a Nexus.

As a counter to the "few lights" argument, the same can be said of all of the mediums, heavies, and assaults that we have which will perform similar roles in their hardpoints. There is just as much room and opportunity (even now) to have just as many light mechs as we do of any other weight class. HOWEVER, with quirks and new tech, there are opportunities to really open up the light market in loads of new ways . . . as well as every other weight class, for that matter.

[Metus regem]

Sereglach, on 26 June 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

The Nexus isn't bad at all; and I daresay I would have no problems swapping out the Stinger or Sling from my list with a Nexus.

As a counter to the "few lights" argument, the same can be said of all of the mediums, heavies, and assaults that we have which will perform similar roles in their hardpoints. There is just as much room and opportunity (even now) to have just as many light mechs as we do of any other weight class. HOWEVER, with quirks and new tech, there are opportunities to really open up the light market in loads of new ways . . . as well as every other weight class, for that matter.

Light PPC's come to mind, they'll be nice for snap shots over a decent range, but I wonder how the are going to stack up against the IS ERML... RL's are going to be a laugh and a half no doubt. My mind is already turning with the ideas of RL40+2xERML on a Locust 1M.... or RL80+1ERSL Locust 3S....

Edited by Metus regem, 26 June 2017 - 02:20 PM.

[Requiemking]

Metus regem, on 26 June 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

Light PPC's come to mind, they'll be nice for snap shots over a decent range, but I wonder how the are going to stack up against the IS ERML... RL's are going to be a laugh and a half no doubt. My mind is already turning with the ideas of RL40+2xERML on a Locust 1M.... or RL80+1ERSL Locust 3S....

You can actually fit RL80 and an ERML on the 3S.

[Metus regem]

Requiemking, on 26 June 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

You can actually fit RL80 and an ERML on the 3S.

Not with out stripping a half ton of armour off of the mech. At efficient max armour (4t) with an XL 180 Endo, LFF it leaves you with 6.5t for weapons...

4x 1.5t RL/20's = 6t
1x .5t ERSL = .5t

[Brain Cancer]

You'd take it off the arms. They only need to last long enough to dump rockets, after all.

[Sereglach]

Requiemking, on 26 June 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

You don't even need to bet. Until scaling is fixed to be fair to all mechs, pretty much every 20 tonner outside of a couple are going to be strictly inferior to the Locust in nearly every way.

You keep saying that, but here's something to consider. For the Locust, most of that mass is in the torso, with spindly little legs and nearly nonexistent arms; and that's all applied in the volumetric scaling. When you put that into a humanoid form it's still going to be extremely tiny, because you're expanding that torso mass out into real arms, a slightly elongated torso, and a little thicker legs. Just look at how the Commando is (without anything in the hardpoints) . . . and then shrink it down an extra 25% volume.

After all, compare an Assassin and a Cicada. You'd end up with very similar results between a Wasp and Locust. Sure, it'll get a little taller, but it'll be slimmer in pretty much every other direction. On the other hand, the Cicada has proportionately more bulk in the legs then the Locust, so the Wasp and Locust would likely be even closer in height. The hitboxes likely wouldn't be bad at all.

Edited by Sereglach, 26 June 2017 - 04:12 PM.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 26 June 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

You keep saying that, but here's something to consider. For the Locust, most of that mass is in the torso, with spindly little legs and nearly nonexistent arms; and that's all applied in the volumetric scaling. When you put that into a humanoid form it's still going to be extremely tiny, because you're expanding that torso mass out into real arms, a slightly elongated torso, and a little thicker legs. Just look at how the Commando is (without anything in the hardpoints) . . . and then shrink it down an extra 25% volume.

After all, compare an Assassin and a Cicada. You'd end up with very similar results between a Wasp and Locust. Sure, it'll get a little taller, but it'll be slimmer in pretty much every other direction. On the other hand, the Cicada has proportionately more bulk in the legs then the Locust, so the Wasp and Locust would likely be even closer in height. The hitboxes likely wouldn't be bad at all.

This.

And did you guys played against light mechs recently? Those pests are tanky AF!

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

Odanan, on 26 June 2017 - 04:25 PM, said:

This.

And did you guys played against light mechs recently? Those pests are tanky AF!

Tanky but with the inability to do much damage since all their best guns and quirks were nerfed. They're still pretty useless in solo que at carrying a team. And almost always have been. That's why nobody plays them outside of events, and nobody buys the light mech packs (I think I've seen 3 Javelins on the field total since release).

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 26 June 2017 - 04:25 PM, said:

And did you guys played against light mechs recently? Those pests are tanky AF!

Some of them are; mostly those with new armour quirks. An UrbanMech e.g. skilled for survival has the armour of a similarly skilled Crab (a 50 ton Mech). It is an extreme example, of course, but the lights with armour quirks generally do well. Lights without those quirks, like poor Jenner or Raven, ...not so much.

[Sereglach]

Metus regem, on 26 June 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

Light PPC's come to mind, they'll be nice for snap shots over a decent range, but I wonder how the are going to stack up against the IS ERML... RL's are going to be a laugh and a half no doubt. My mind is already turning with the ideas of RL40+2xERML on a Locust 1M.... or RL80+1ERSL Locust 3S....

Honestly, I'm still bated/apprehensive over Rocket Launchers . . . namely how PGI will implement them. My preference would be that they'll pull a MekTek, and we'll end up with Rocket Launchers that fire one at a time for more damage than 1 damage a piece (at least 2, but preferable 3-4). It would provide a bit more longevity (and potential accuracy) for the fight, at respectable tonnage for lights. After all, 2 tons for a SRM2 and 1 ton of ammo is 100 damage potential, so a RL20 should be able to at least somewhat compete with that at 1.5 tons a piece.

Otherwise, if they do a straight TT implementation, we'll have crap damage-per-ton investment on weapons that would technically be doing a whopping 10 damage per RL20 due to MWO's armor and structure adjustments (let alone quirks and skill tree). Sadly, though, this is what I do expect to get from PGI.

[Alex Morgaine]

Viking made me drool...