20517 replies to this topic

[Norris J Packard]

Well to be fair, the Heavies did need a real brawler.

The Cataphract is a situational brawler at best, but the Orion will be able to do a lot of things it just can't. And I like the Cataphract.

And I realize this despite the fact that my Merc Corp's parent company designed the Black Knight. It's too energy-centric and many of the variants are too similar. I'd say once we got at least four Clan Mechs? Go ahead and announce the Black Knight as the next rotation.

[Odanan]

The Black Knight might be cool (or hot) but it wouldn't fit well to MWO. Even if you can squeeze 3 variants on that, they are all the same thing.

BL-7-KNT: 3025
BL-6-KNT: 2750 (Old Star League design - extinct)
BL7W-KNT: 3050
BL8W-KNT: 3050

[Norris J Packard]

I think what people really want to see is FD's redesign of it.

[Strum Wealh]

The Birdeater, on 22 January 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

I remember these Facebook-Polls by Garth back in the days.
Here the results of the 75 ton class.



Black Knight: 639 votes
Flashman: 157 votes
Orion: 368 votes

A clear result. Most ppl wanted the BK, but we still get the Orion. The Orion deserves it. It's a legend, but it wasn't what the community has requested. How ever. I can live with that. Maybe we'll get it someday.

Though, the results do beg the question: how many of the votes cast for the Black Knight were based on the expectation of the MW4 version (which mounted BAP and ECM, Jump Jets, and had two arm-mounted pseudo-Omni hardpoints and a ballistics hardpoint) rather than the canon version (a non-Omni energy boat with no jump jets on any variant) that PGI would use as the basis of MWO's implementation?

And what levels of forum-raging could be expected when the MWO Black Knight can't be turned into the ECM-cloaked jumping mini-Devastator build that was part of what made it so ubiquitous in MW4?

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 22 January 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

The Black Knight might be cool (or hot) but it wouldn't fit well to MWO. Even if you can squeeze 3 variants on that, they are all the same thing.

BL-7-KNT: 3025
BL-6-KNT: 2750 (Old Star League design - extinct)
BL7W-KNT: 3050
BL8W-KNT: 3050

In which publication (TRO/sourcebook/etc) are these BL-7W-KNT and BL-8W-KNT listed?

They're not on Catalyst's Master Unit List page for the Black Knight - which seems to indicate that both the BL-7W-KNT and BL-8W-KNT are likely unofficial, fan-made variants rather than official, canon variants... which I would expect not to bode well with regard to their potential for inclusion in MWO.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 22 January 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

In which publication (TRO/sourcebook/etc) are these BL-7W-KNT and BL-8W-KNT listed?

They're not on Catalyst's Master Unit List page for the Black Knight - which seems to indicate that both the BL-7W-KNT and BL-8W-KNT are likely unofficial, fan-made variants rather than official, canon variants... which I would expect not to bode well with regard to their potential for inclusion in MWO.

Shady German sources, I suppose...

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Personally I think we should rule out tech restictions, long as they're within current available equipment. Think about it. Every mech has access to what is "los-tech" (endo, ferro, ER, etc.) so why hold back on mechs that come from that background? The Dev's are already designing their own hero mechs and adding unique differences in varients. Plus many varients/equip that we have now would be considered rare in BT universe.

Not saying we should have all of the "los-tech"/Star League mechs, but at least include the ones that could really add variety in terms of hardpoints and mech stature.

Gimme my damn king crab.

[OneManWar]

The Orion was piloted by Alexander Kerensky, that alone beats any argument for the Black Knight over the Orion.

Edited by OneManWar, 22 January 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Strum Wealh, on 22 January 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Though, the results do beg the question: how many of the votes cast for the Black Knight were based on the expectation of the MW4 version (which mounted BAP and ECM, Jump Jets, and had two arm-mounted pseudo-Omni hardpoints and a ballistics hardpoint) rather than the canon version (a non-Omni energy boat with no jump jets on any variant) that PGI would use as the basis of MWO's implementation?

And what levels of forum-raging could be expected when the MWO Black Knight can't be turned into the ECM-cloaked jumping mini-Devastator build that was part of what made it so ubiquitous in MW4?

Hehe, i absolutely agree with that. I also think, that most of these Black Knight voters are old MW4 players. The MW4 variant has nothing to do with the original Black Knight, i know. Personally, i want the REAL Black Knight, of course!

Norris J Packard, on 22 January 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

I think what people really want to see is FD's redesign of it.

Definitely. In any case !!!

[MeltedSnowgirl]

urbie please!

[Goldhawk]

The Birdeater, on 22 January 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Hehe, i absolutely agree with that. I also think, that most of these Black Knight voters are old MW4 players. The MW4 variant has nothing to do with the original Black Knight, i know. Personally, i want the REAL Black Knight, of course!



Definitely. In any case !!!

I would agree that many of the voters may be players who had the enjoyment of mechwarrior 4 Black Knight. I do believe that there is a legitimate wanting of the community for the Black Knight battlemech. I personally find my self wanting to be a Comstar associate and kicking the crap out of clanners on Tukayyid. I would love to have a Black Knight because I enjoy it's energy compliment.

[Strum Wealh]

B3RZ3RK3R, on 22 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Personally I think we should rule out tech restictions, long as they're within current available equipment. Think about it. Every mech has access to what is "los-tech" (endo, ferro, ER, etc.) so why hold back on mechs that come from that background? The Dev's are already designing their own hero mechs and adding unique differences in varients. Plus many varients/equip that we have now would be considered rare in BT universe.

Not saying we should have all of the "los-tech"/Star League mechs, but at least include the ones that could really add variety in terms of hardpoints and mech stature.

As much as there are certain 'Mechs I would like to see (none moreso than a decently-done Marauder), I find that I disagree with the notion of not considering in-universe production availability.
IMO, it is one of the major factors in why 'Mechs that are rarely (if ever) acknowledged or featured in a MW game - such as the Cataphract, Spider, and Blackjack: all of which (IIRC) have never before been featured in an official MechWarrior-titled video game - rather than the "usual" handfull of commonly-used (and over-represented?) 'Mechs; my personal opinion is that it brings a certain freshness to MWO that it wouldn't have if it were otherwise the case.
If the price of that is some waiting or restrictions on certain 'Mechs, then so be it.

B3RZ3RK3R, on 22 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Gimme my damn king crab.

As for the King Crab: one of the main problems with it is that the each of the KGC-000's AC/20s is split across the arm and the respective side-torso (more specifically, 8 of the gun's 10 criticals are in the arm, with the remaining two in the side-torso).
The KGC-0000 has the same issue, in reverse - the bulk of the AC/20s' criticals are in the side-torsos, with a smaller number of their criticals are spread into the arms.
The only remaining timeline-appropriate variant (that would work in MWO's MechLab system, as-is) is the KGC-010.

That is less an issue with available chassis/variants/tech than it is one of MWO's game design; unless PGI revamps the MechLab to allow for split-location weapon mounting (which canonically applies only to the -20 ACs, the Heavy Gauss Rifle, and the artillery weapons (Arrow IV, Long Tom, etc)), the main King Crab variant - and two of the three timeline-appropriate variants - would be impossible to build or significantly modify in MWO.

[Stingz]

Strum Wealh, on 22 January 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

As for the King Crab: one of the main problems with it is that the each of the KGC-000's AC/20s is split across the arm and the respective side-torso (more specifically, 8 of the gun's 10 criticals are in the arm, with the remaining two in the side-torso).
The KGC-0000 has the same issue, in reverse - the bulk of the AC/20s' criticals are in the side-torsos, with a smaller number of their criticals are spread into the arms.
The only remaining timeline-appropriate variant (that would work in MWO's MechLab system, as-is) is the KGC-010.

That is less an issue with available chassis/variants/tech than it is one of MWO's game design; unless PGI revamps the MechLab to allow for split-location weapon mounting (which canonically applies only to the -20 ACs, the Heavy Gauss Rifle, and the artillery weapons (Arrow IV, Long Tom, etc)), the main King Crab variant - and two of the three timeline-appropriate variants - would be impossible to build or significantly modify in MWO.

Remove the Lower Arm + Hand Actuators. An easy fix since splitting criticals between arm/torso = torso-mounted accuracy. [Link to source, TechManual p. 57] Later versions of the King Crab strip out the lower arm/hand anyways.

I'm pretty sure King Crabs always have the AC/20s in the arms, makes little sense to put them elsewhere. (Better than an Assault sized Gauss-Cat)

Edited by Stingz, 22 January 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Xenolance]

Odd, the art links aren't working, hopefully it's down for an update! I'd like to see something new and exciting!

[Strum Wealh]

Stingz, on 22 January 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Remove the Lower Arm + Hand Actuators. An easy fix since splitting criticals between arm/torso = torso-mounted accuracy. [Link to source, TechManual p. 57] Later versions of the King Crab strip out the lower arm/hand anyways.

King Crabs always have full actuator sets, however.

• The "Hand Actuators", in its particular case, are the cannon-covers (which could be actuated, in much the same manner as the missile bay doors in other 'Mechs? ) that also act as the pincers that give the 'Mech its name, and their removal would be a loss of the KGC's signature characteristic and namesake.
  
• Additionally, the Hand and Lower Arm Actuators should also prove helpful when the Devs finally get around to implementing melee (as 'Mechs with damaged or missing Hand and Lower Arm Actuators find their melee capabilities impared) - the KGC needs to be able to pinch. It likes to pinch.
  
• Also, PGI seems to be committed to generally accurate depictions of the 'Mechs - hence why, unlike MW3 and MW4, so many more of the 'Mechs that are supposed to have hands actually have them (which, in turned, affects the number of criticals available in the arms, as well as spawned a legion of "Why do the 'Mechs have hands?" threads... ).

As such, it seems rather unlikely that PGI would declaw the King Crab, so the actuators must stay.

-----

Stingz, on 22 January 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure King Crabs always have the AC/20s in the arms, makes little sense to put them elsewhere. (Better than an Assault sized Gauss-Cat)

The aforementioned KGC-0000 is a canon variant (and one of the three "common" (non SLDF-exclusive) variants that exists prior to 3052), that places the bulk of the AC/20s in the side-torsos, with the extra criticals spilling over into the arms.


This is in contrast to the archetypical (and LosTech-equipped) KGC-000 variant, which places the bulk of the AC/20s in the arms, with the extra criticals spilling over into the side-torsos.


And in both cases, the King Crab still retains its signature claws (the Hand Actuators)...

[Phoenix Branson]

I think it would be pretty neat to see Industrial Mechs represented on certain maps for MechWarrior Online.

"IndustrialMechs (also known as WorkMechs, UtilityMechs or, where applicable, ICE 'Mechs), though far less glamorous than their war-faring counterparts, are very important in the everyday life of the BattleTech universe. There are AgroMechs, ForestryMechs and LoggerMechs, LoaderMechs, MiningMechs, and many other types for many different industries including even armed SecurityMechs. Many of these 'Mechs use an internal combustion engine (ICE), usually diesel, due to the high cost of fusion reactors."

http://www.sarna.net.../IndustrialMech



Ok. Now talking about the next assault mech for BattleMech 20, hopefully tomorrow...

Edited by Maverick01, 22 January 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[Aidan Lee]

Strum Wealh, on 22 January 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

King Crabs always have full actuator sets, however.

• The "Hand Actuators", in its particular case, are the cannon-covers (which could be actuated, in much the same manner as the missile bay doors in other 'Mechs? ) that also act as the pincers that give the 'Mech its name, and their removal would be a loss of the KGC's signature characteristic and namesake.
  
• Additionally, the Hand and Lower Arm Actuators should also prove helpful when the Devs finally get around to implementing melee (as 'Mechs with damaged or missing Hand and Lower Arm Actuators find their melee capabilities impared) - the KGC needs to be able to pinch. It likes to pinch.
  
• Also, PGI seems to be committed to generally accurate depictions of the 'Mechs - hence why, unlike MW3 and MW4, so many more of the 'Mechs that are supposed to have hands actually have them (which, in turned, affects the number of criticals available in the arms, as well as spawned a legion of "Why do the 'Mechs have hands?" threads... ).

As such, it seems rather unlikely that PGI would declaw the King Crab, so the actuators must stay.


-----

The aforementioned KGC-0000 is a canon variant (and one of the three "common" (non SLDF-exclusive) variants that exists prior to 3052), that places the bulk of the AC/20s in the side-torsos, with the extra criticals spilling over into the arms.


This is in contrast to the archetypical (and LosTech-equipped) KGC-000 variant, which places the bulk of the AC/20s in the arms, with the extra criticals spilling over into the side-torsos.


And in both cases, the King Crab still retains its signature claws (the Hand Actuators)...

woooowwww.. i haven't seen these since i was in high school. nice! i enjoy that the dev's keep things historically correct, to some respect, in this here game!

[Aidan Lee]

i know there are not many variants on battle suits, but that would be cool, playin MW2 and MW2 mercs, i loved the elemental. Inner sphere has many more chassis than the elemental though.. achillius... purifier adaptive... kanazuchi.. infiltrator... my favorite, longinus. put them as variants of a battle suit and call it a day!

[Typhus79]

Will there be Clan Mechs as well implanted ? and how do the Dev's deal with the difference between inner Sphere Mechs and Clan Mechs ..because Clan Mechs are as you know better in Weapons and Equipment...so if Clan Mechs shows up they should play against more inner sphere Mechs...like in the Lore ....4-5 against 8 Inner Sphere something like that.

[Norris J Packard]

Typhus79, on 23 January 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

Will there be Clan Mechs as well implanted ? and how do the Dev's deal with the difference between inner Sphere Mechs and Clan Mechs ..because Clan Mechs are as you know better in Weapons and Equipment...so if Clan Mechs shows up they should play against more inner sphere Mechs...like in the Lore ....4-5 against 8 Inner Sphere something like that.

None of this has been set in stone yet beyond the fact that the Clans will be a separate faction.