20517 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

CycKath, on 22 August 2017 - 01:31 AM, said:

Tap into some apparently unmined vein of MW4 nostalgia for PGI. TT is mined out it seems for PGI (EXCEPT ITS FRIGGING NOT!?!?), MW3 IS mediums are covered, cartoon mediums are covered, MW4 is the uncharted frontier...

uncharted frontier?
What is Dark Age? -> There will be Dragons? EoW? You will fall over the rim?

[Odanan]

Pariah Devalis, on 21 August 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

Upcoming 'Mechs
• Unannounced Inner Sphere Medium
• Unannounced Clan Light
• Unannounced Clan Medium

Cool! Where did you get this announcement? EDIT, nevermind.

• IS Medium: Hellspawn (Chimera looks better and more unique, but the Hellspawn is a better mech)
  
• Clan Light: Piranha, of course (but I still secretly hope for a surprise Fire Moth)
  
• Clan Medium: most likely Black Lanner. Hellhound would be a no brainer if it wasn't the serious conflict between MW4's and TT's designs. Since MW4's Hellhound looks is strongly based on the Black Lanner, I guess everything will be fine. (and I strongly believe the 'Lanner will be a beast)

No Heavy or Assault mechs? As much as those are the weight classes I usually pilot, I greatly approve this. I suppose Fafnir and Blood Asp will come shortly after.

Edited by Odanan, 22 August 2017 - 04:57 AM.

[FLG 01]

Karl Streiger, on 21 August 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Tell me what a Hellspawn can what a Dervish can't do better

To be fair, the Hellspawn would be more appropriate for the Civil War era than the aging Dervish, at least as far as the AFFS are concerned. But since the Hellspawn is pretty much a Davion-only Mech, and the Dervish still can be found all over the IS that point might be moot.
It might be worth keeping in mind that all of the recent and coming IS Mechs are either Steiner and/or Davion Mechs, with the exception of the Annhilitator (also some Nightstars were with ComStar and WoB due to SL-caches). As a Steiner-fan I would not mind continuing that trend since the LAAF can use the AFFS RATs too in the FCCW, and vice versa.

The lore of the Hellspawn is a bit conflicted anyway. The TRO entry lists some very high profile A-rated units deploying the Mech, while the RAT of FM:U lists it for lesser C-rated units... Oh, and the most notable pilot of the Hellspawn is a pirate, just saying, a deserter.

I don't know what it could do in MWO. Most of the variants are absolutely the same (3x energy, 2x missile), also in need of serious hardpoint inflation; and the two that are different (the pirate hero and the -10SR) sport Tech we don't have and would need rework.
With Annihilator-level quirks and hardpoint inflation it could be a good Mech. Which is not saying much.

CycKath, on 22 August 2017 - 01:31 AM, said:

Tap into some apparently unmined vein of MW4 nostalgia for PGI.

...unmined? Of the nine Mechs released or announced since the so-called Civil War pact, seven are from MW:4. That's heavy strip-mining.
And it is dangerous since not every Mech from that game is automatically worth it. And those which are, are usually from another source anyway, like Fafnir or Nova Cat.

[Odanan]

The Hellspawn is a 45 tons mech, fast, energy+missiles, with jumpjets and ECM. At this point it's rare to say that but: this is a completely new mech for MWO (which the game actually needs).

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 22 August 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

The Hellspawn is a 45 tons mech, fast, energy+missiles, with jumpjets and ECM. At this point it's rare to say that but: this is a completely new mech for MWO (which the game actually needs).

That's a minor novelty at best. And if novelty were your primary concern you'd champion the Men Shen. It's also a better Mech.

[Odanan]

I looks like the next 4 mechs are figured out, but there is fun still!

Quote

SEPTEMBER

2017 Annual Rewards Program Content Announcement

Lets see the candidates for the 5 "loyalty" variants:

• MC purchase: LCT-3D (full missile boat), COM-1C (with ballistic), UM-R68 (with missile), Adder E (2 energy side torsos), FS9-1S (ECM), FS9-C or FS9-P (missiles), PXH-7S (MASC, all energy), VND-4L (ECM), CN9-D3D (ECM), CRB-30 (ECM), ENF-6G (all energy), HBK-5S (jumpjets), Huntsman D, H or N (more energy or ECM), GRF-5M (ballistic), KTK-K (jumpjets), Stormcrow E (more options).
  
• Clan standard pack: Mad Dog D (energy CT), Hellbringer C or H (better pods), Linebacker H (energy CT, jumpjets!!), Summoner G (all the missiles).
  
• Clan collector pack: Night Gyr E (more energy), Night Gyr H (ECM), Warhawk F (ballistic RT), Warhawk D (2 energy RT), Dire Wolf H or X (more options).
  
• IS standard pack: DRG-7N (ballistic in the other arm), DRG-1G or DRG-5K (energy arm), DRG-7K (energy arm, MASC), RFL-8D (jumpjets), RFL-7M (ECM), CPLT-C2 (ballistic + missile), JM6-H (torso missiles), TDR-5SD (ballistic RT), TDR-7M (missile side torsos), TDR-10SE (MASC), TDR-7SE (ECM), ARC-7L (jumpjets, ECM), GHR-7K (ECM), WHM-6RK (great side torsos), WHM-4L (ECM), MAD-9M (ECM and more missiles).
  
• IS collector pack: AWS-9Q (ECM), VTR-9A, VTR-9A1 or VTR-10S (ballistic torso), VTR-10L (ECM), ZEU-WD (more energy, no missile), CP-11-B (dual ballistics and missiles side torsos), HGN-694 (ballistic LT), HGN-734 (energy LA and CT), MAL-3R (jumpjets), BNC-6S (side torsos ballistics), KGC-001 (missile side torsos).

This post was sponsored by Mechs Not Yet in MWO.

Edited by Odanan, 22 August 2017 - 08:47 AM.
moving Night Gyrs to Clan collector pack

[SuperFunkTron]

Odanan, on 22 August 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

I looks like the next 4 mechs are figured out, but there is fun still!

Lets see the candidates for the 5 "loyalty" variants:

• MC purchase: LCT-3D (full missile boat), COM-1C (with ballistic), UM-R68 (with missile), Adder E (2 energy side torsos), FS9-1S (ECM), FS9-C or FS9-P (missiles), PXH-7S (MASC, all energy), VND-4L (ECM), CN9-D3D (ECM), CRB-30 (ECM), ENF-6G (all energy), HBK-5S (jumpjets), Huntsman D, H or N (more energy or ECM), GRF-5M (ballistic), KTK-K (jumpjets), Stormcrow E (more options).
  
• Clan standard pack: Mad Dog D (energy CT), Hellbringer C or H (better pods), Linebacker H (energy CT, jumpjets!!), Summoner G (all the missiles).
  
• Clan collector pack: Night Gyr E (more energy), Night Gyr H (ECM), Warhawk F (ballistic RT), Warhawk D (2 energy RT), Dire Wolf H or X (more options).
  
• IS standard pack: DRG-7N (ballistic in the other arm), DRG-1G or DRG-5K (energy arm), DRG-7K (energy arm, MASC), RFL-8D (jumpjets), RFL-7M (ECM), CPLT-C2 (ballistic + missile), JM6-H (torso missiles), TDR-5SD (ballistic RT), TDR-7M (missile side torsos), TDR-10SE (MASC), TDR-7SE (ECM), ARC-7L (jumpjets, ECM), GHR-7K (ECM), WHM-6RK (great side torsos), WHM-4L (ECM), MAD-9M (ECM and more missiles), KGC-001 (missile side torsos).
  
• IS collector pack: AWS-9Q (ECM), VTR-9A, VTR-9A1 or VTR-10S (ballistic torso), VTR-10L (ECM), ZEU-WD (more energy, no missile), CP-11-B (dual ballistics and missiles side torsos), HGN-694 (ballistic LT), HGN-734 (energy LA and CT), MAL-3R (jumpjets), BNC-6S (side torsos ballistics).

This post was sponsored by Mechs Not Yet in MWO.

Clearly the Jumping Linebacker is the single best choice for Clanners, but the Warhawk and Direwolf variants would be highly appreciated as well. If they wanted to throw a curve ball at us and surprise us with early, loyalty access to a Phantom or Pouncer, that would be right up there with the jumping linebacker and should be very seriously considered to reward those who have been loyal (for so many years)

I don't feel I have enough experience or competence to comment on what would be good for the IS mechs so I'll leave that for others to debate.

[Odanan]

SuperFunkTron, on 22 August 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Clearly the Jumping Linebacker is the single best choice for Clanners, but the Warhawk and Direwolf variants would be highly appreciated as well.

whynotbothmexicangirlmeme.jpg

Yes, that Linebacker will rock. And any help the Warhawk can get is welcome. Direwolf has already more weapons than it can use, IMHO.

Edited by Odanan, 22 August 2017 - 08:45 AM.

[Odanan]

For IS standard, the Dragon 7K or the Marauder 9M; and for IS collectors Cyclops 11-B or Banshee 6S are the best candidates, I guess. The "minor reward", however, is full of great mechs. I don't dare give a shot this time.

[Brain Cancer]

The poor Chimera didn't get many variants (it's mostly ignored but for it's stock build), although the Hellspawn does.

I'm thinking it's in along with Piranha (talk about your opportunity feeder) and Conjurer.

[Requiemking]

Karl Streiger, on 21 August 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Your Vulcan is very unhappy now - tell me what does the Chimera has that a Vulcan can't do better?

Erm, use missiles? The only "variant"(and that stretching the definition pretty far) of the Vulcan that mounts missiles is the Clan Wolverine Stag.

[Ovion]

With the 'as yet unnanounced mechs':

[-Skyrider-]

Did people forget about the ecm capable direwolf C?

[Karl Streiger]

Requiemking, on 22 August 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

Erm, use missiles? The only "variant"(and that stretching the definition pretty far) of the Vulcan that mounts missiles is the Clan Wolverine Stag.

And the missile rack makes the Chimera as wide as a barn - where the Vulcan might reach the height of a skyscraper.
Not that it does matter - don't think that both will sell well

[DerMaulwurf]

Going on a little tangent here, but I've found my first clan non-XL build. MAD-2C: 340STD, 2HLL, 6ERML and 27DHS. It's awesome, it uses a standard engine and it doesn't need a single quirk.

Now, how is this relevant to discussing new mechs? It means that the Kingfisher would work perfectly fine if introduced. And it wouldn't live or die upon the whims of the quirk god.

Admittedly, the lack of pod-space would railroad you towards laser boating by default and it cannot appear for like the next half year. But, I would really like to see Alex's work on this one.

[Odanan]

-Skyrider-, on 22 August 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

Did people forget about the ecm capable direwolf C?

Isn't it the one with one-shot SRMs?

[-Skyrider-]

Dire Wolf C:

LA- atm 6, erppc
LT- 3x med pulse lasers, jumpjet
HD- ssrm 4 (yes its only one shot)
CT- ecm, jumpjet
RT- med pulse laser, jumpjet
RA- atm 6, erppc

Not only does this configuration give the dire wolf ecm, but it also gives it 3 more missile hardpoints. It would be in my opinion a great option for one of the loyalty variants.

[FLG 01]

Karl Streiger, on 22 August 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

And the missile rack makes the Chimera as wide as a barn - where the Vulcan might reach the height of a skyscraper.
Not that it does matter - don't think that both will sell well

Of the leading 3 IS medium Mechs in Gas's poll, the Chimera is easily the worst. Not as bad as in TT, as you can switch the MRM for something that suits such a Mech better, but still very bad. It has few hardpoints to begin with, and those few hardpoints are highly eclectic. It has a horrible geometry with hugely vulnerable STs, and with that weight you'd want an XL.

Sha Yu and Sentry are vastly superior at 40 tons.

I mean we could invoke the Uziel-principle again, i.e. preferring an objectively bad unit for no other reason than MW:4, so that nobody wins in the end.

-

Edited by FLG 01, 23 August 2017 - 09:06 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Karl Streiger, on 22 August 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

And the missile rack makes the Chimera as wide as a barn - where the Vulcan might reach the height of a skyscraper.
Not that it does matter - don't think that both will sell well

How is mech-height a problem anyway? If the Vulcan stays true to its original design, yes it's going to be tall, but with spindly limbs, a skinny torso and huge gaps between the arms and the body, which is a really good thing to have in MWO, since shots going towards your torso have a high chance of missing completely.

I never found "height" of the mech to ever be a problem (i mean, how often do you overshoot a mech? miss in the vertical plane? Almost never, in my case. It's the horizontal plane that matters and Vulcan could possibly be very good for it).

Also Vulcan is a 3025 chassis, which makes it inherently superior.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 23 August 2017 - 09:24 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Juodas Varnas, on 23 August 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

How is mech-height a problem anyway? If the Vulcan stays true to its original design, yes it's going to be tall, but with spindly limbs, a skinny torso and huge gaps between the arms and the body, which is a really good thing to have in MWO, since shots going towards your torso have a high chance of missing completely.

I never found "height" of the mech to ever be a problem (i mean, how often do you overshoot a mech? miss in the vertical plane? Almost never, in my case. It's the horizontal plane that matters and Vulcan could possibly be very good for it).

Also Vulcan is a 3025 chassis, which makes it inherently superior.

Precisely. Height is a factor only when it comes to hugging short terrain, but width has the single largest impact on how we can effectively direct damage. A horizontal slice across a mech's torso renders 5 components to hit. The narrower the mech, or the smaller the components (inter-spaced by "air space" between parts), the harder it becomes to focus a single component on a moving target, as the bounding boxes for those sections are narrower.

It's why, for example, I can put most of an SRM salvo into the side torso of a griffin from the front, but I'd be guaranteed to hit two or even three sections on a Bushwacker or an Assassin with the same weapon from the same angle. This leads to natural durability in that the mech will automatically spread damage. A vertical slice of the mech, however, will only ever render one or two components, meaning the impact of height is far lower on the ability to single out a section than the impact of width. Makes hugging terrain harder if you're taller, but that's about the end of that downside.

The Vulcan, as an example mech, might be tall, but it is typically shown with spindly limbs and torso components, with plenty of air space between the parts. Lots of room for shots to miss between armpits and such, with narrow critical components where they exist. Perhaps the largest single target on the mech is the cockpit housing sphere, but otherwise? I wouldn't be terribly concerned.