20517 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

The reason is that 4/6 is as fast as an 85 tonner normally gets, barring MASC or a supercharger. (the 425XXL is way in the range of experimental-holy-guacamole-its-expensive tech). That's because you can't get past 400 normally, and the highest evenly divisible by weight is a 340 engine. Standard engine 340 is basically the same robot as something in the heavy range in terms of payload. Maybe a bit more armor and structure. Most IS 85-tonners go with the far more efficient weight-to-power 255 rating, maybe with jump jets as it yields a lot more payload for the weight class.

Clanners being Clanners, they could just go with the XL and that gives us gems like the Marauder IIC, with the IS attempts being hamstrung by a ST-kill engine in things like the Templar. The IS doesn't get it right until the Lu Wei Bing, a century or so after the IS tech revival.

[TheArisen]

Brain Cancer, on 12 April 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

The reason is that 4/6 is as fast as an 85 tonner normally gets, barring MASC or a supercharger. (the 425XXL is way in the range of experimental-holy-guacamole-its-expensive tech). That's because you can't get past 400 normally, and the highest evenly divisible by weight is a 340 engine. Standard engine 340 is basically the same robot as something in the heavy range in terms of payload. Maybe a bit more armor and structure. Most IS 85-tonners go with the far more efficient weight-to-power 255 rating, maybe with jump jets as it yields a lot more payload for the weight class.

Clanners being Clanners, they could just go with the XL and that gives us gems like the Marauder IIC, with the IS attempts being hamstrung by a ST-kill engine in things like the Templar. The IS doesn't get it right until the Lu Wei Bing, a century or so after the IS tech revival.

Yeah I really wish there was an 85t Rifleman. There is the Rifleman 2 but it's 80t and a one off custom sort of thing. I wish I could invent a mech for MWO haha.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 12 April 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

Fastest 85t mech you are going to find will be 4/6...

Lu Wei Bing
Rampage
Sasquatch (LOL a whole lot of NOPE with a 425 XXL engine!)
Templar
Templar III
Wakazashi

Those are the ones that fill your speed requirement of being at least 4/6, that are not currently in game at least... regardless of what tech may or may not be in game that they use.

The only 85 tons I'm interested in are the Crockett/Katana, Gunslinger and the Longbow. All of them are pretty slow.

Edited by Odanan, 12 April 2018 - 07:27 PM.

[FLG 01]

They are not fast, but they should be 'fast enough'. With a regular 1.4x engine cap they can use a 360 engine which means 68.6 kph without speed tweak. That's perfectly ok for a 85 tonner; not great, but ok. I'd probably go for a 350 or 325 LFE, and I am sure others prefer a smaller engine anyway.

The Gunslinger seems to me like the best 85t option, as far as performance in MWO is concerned, and I also like the lore. The severe lack of variants however is a downside - despite the cool hero (Gunslinger with the doomfists of the Zeus).
The Longbow has a greater fanbase, and the build options are nice. I am just a little worried about the hitboxes, especially given PGI's fondness for making extra-wide STs even wider. Also, many players will use this in its intended role as LRM assault... I don't mind Lurmers, but having too many of them in Charlie rarely ends well.
Crockett/Katana is meh. Although TRO:2750 was the first TRO I owned I never cared much for this Mech. I don't think it's bad but imo it pales compared to Gunslinger and Longbow.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 12 April 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

The only 85 tons I'm interested in are the Crockett/Katana, Gunslinger and the Longbow. All of them are pretty slow.

It's all about tonnage to engine speed efficiency... at 85t it really drops to 3/5 as you can keep pace with heavier units and bring a ton of fire power...

I've got two mechs in the 85t bracket that I really have a soft spot for:

Templar
Longbow (LGB-13NAIS)

The Templar and I have a long history on the TT, and she is one of the few post clan invasion IS mechs that rarely lets me down, the Longbow NAIS I just love, due to the 6XLAC/5's (3 in each arm) with a C3 Slave it makes for an amusing combination with a Templar that is running a C3 Master...

[Requiemking]

Odanan, on 12 April 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

The only 85 tons I'm interested in are the Crockett/Katana, Gunslinger and the Longbow. All of them are pretty slow.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Shogun. Yes, it is another Missile Boat, but with it's proportions I think it could pull of MRM smashing quite well. Also, that high-mounted energy hardpoint is great.

[Brain Cancer]

Metus regem, on 13 April 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

It's all about tonnage to engine speed efficiency... at 85t it really drops to 3/5 as you can keep pace with heavier units and bring a ton of fire power...

I've got two mechs in the 85t bracket that I really have a soft spot for:

Templar
Longbow (LGB-13NAIS)

The Templar and I have a long history on the TT, and she is one of the few post clan invasion IS mechs that rarely lets me down, the Longbow NAIS I just love, due to the 6XLAC/5's (3 in each arm) with a C3 Slave it makes for an amusing combination with a Templar that is running a C3 Master...

It's a shame that I don't think MWO could realistically manage a true C3 system like it works in tabletop, but the six-LAC/5 layout is pretty unique in tabletop for the -13NAIS. The Jagermech-DD is gonna have a field day with those in MWO when they come out.

[Metus regem]

Brain Cancer, on 13 April 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

It's a shame that I don't think MWO could realistically manage a true C3 system like it works in tabletop, but the six-LAC/5 layout is pretty unique in tabletop for the -13NAIS. The Jagermech-DD is gonna have a field day with those in MWO when they come out.

If and when LAC/s hit the game, I want to see different ammo, hell they could code it via making different types of AC/s that are tagged to use one ammo type, for example AC/10 [AP], AC/10 [Standard], AC/10 [ tracer] and so on.

But yea, true C3 is something I don't want PGI to even attempt to touch, I mean look at the mess they made out of ECM...

Mind you if it was up to me, I'd have coded ECM to give off false sensor targets (between 1-12, set by the user) as well as let it give off a mirror image effect when the ECM mech is targeted, with the targeting box expanding to encompass all mirror images. The real mech in the mirror images would be in a random position, among 4 mirror images of the mech.

Like I said though, if it were up to me, and I had the skill to do such a thing.

[Adridos]

Metus regem, on 13 April 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

Mind you if it was up to me, I'd have coded ECM to give off false sensor targets (between 1-12, set by the user) as well as let it give off a mirror image effect when the ECM mech is targeted, with the targeting box expanding to encompass all mirror images. The real mech in the mirror images would be in a random position, among 4 mirror images of the mech.

12v12 - 24 mechs per match.
If you used that scheme, you'd have to render 60! different mechs in the worst case scenario. The game would grind to a halt, the hit detection would blow up. PGI's servers would be set aflame.

Not that it's impossible to implement, but you gotta put some effort into it and think it through. Gotta balance out the ideas with the implementation reality and what-not.

[Brain Cancer]

This is why I've always said being unable to properly code things has a gradually worsening effect, as more items that benefit from the thing PGI can't do properly come along.

Since we can't properly do LB-10X, we can't properly do flamers, LRMs, SRMs, ATMs, standard ACs, light AC's, MML's, and so on. Can't do split-crit? Heavy Gauss and LB-20X take a hit in effectiveness, as do AC/20s, and the Arrow IV can't exist for the IS (and it suffers from no-ammo-swap too).

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 13 April 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

Mind you if it was up to me, I'd have coded ECM to give off false sensor targets (between 1-12, set by the user) as well as let it give off a mirror image effect when the ECM mech is targeted, with the targeting box expanding to encompass all mirror images. The real mech in the mirror images would be in a random position, among 4 mirror images of the mech.

Like I said though, if it were up to me, and I had the skill to do such a thing.

Adridos, on 13 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

12v12 - 24 mechs per match.
If you used that scheme, you'd have to render 60! different mechs in the worst case scenario. The game would grind to a halt, the hit detection would blow up. PGI's servers would be set aflame.

Not that it's impossible to implement, but you gotta put some effort into it and think it through. Gotta balance out the ideas with the implementation reality and what-not.

I don't think ECM creates holograms of mechs - it just messes up radar and sensors (not visual).

[Adridos]

Odanan, on 13 April 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

I don't think ECM creates holograms of mechs - it just messes up radar and sensors (not visual).

There's very much enough leewaay in the lore as to what it is and how it works.
Its general description says is screws up your sensors. Visuals are all cameras (except when they are not and you're looking at a windshield,, whichever one is the correct one changes every other minute or so as far as BT lore is concerned), so it could do just that. Or at least keep the fake targets to lock onto and stuff.

Your imagination is the limit when it ccomes to actual ECM effects.

[Metus regem]

Adridos, on 13 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

12v12 - 24 mechs per match.
If you used that scheme, you'd have to render 60! different mechs in the worst case scenario. The game would grind to a halt, the hit detection would blow up. PGI's servers would be set aflame.

Not that it's impossible to implement, but you gotta put some effort into it and think it through. Gotta balance out the ideas with the implementation reality and what-not.

I when I said false sensor contacts, I mean red contacts on your mini map, not actual mechs on your screen... only when the mirror imaging when targeting the mech equipped ECM, even then it's 4 fake mechs, but even then they go away when the ECM is disrupted or destroyed.

[Odanan]

So, I tried Solaris and I'm loving it.

If you want you butt kicked, come find me in division 3.

[Metus regem]

Sorry Odana, but Solaris isn't my thing... I think I'd enjoy the dentist more....

[Requiemking]

Now that Solaris is out, I kinda want the Gladiator. Not the Executioner, but the original Gladiator, House Kurita's first home-grown Battlemech.

[Metus regem]

Requiemking, on 17 April 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

Now that Solaris is out, I kinda want the Gladiator. Not the Executioner, but the original Gladiator, House Kurita's first home-grown Battlemech.

Gladiator



She'd need a bunch of PGI variants....

[Bishop Steiner]

So, still hoping to make it to MechCon (finally) this year... so thought I'd design myself a T-Shirt....

[Bishop Steiner]

oh and then this guy is apparently a thing for real now....

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 April 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

oh and then this guy is apparently a thing for real now....

Stinger STG-3G I think?

That's just going off the head and the two weapons... Might just be hopefulness on my part, but as far as non-LAM stingers go, the 3G is my go-to.