20517 replies to this topic

[Norris J Packard]

MWHawke, on 01 February 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Seriously, are we really having more ability to config IS Mechs as compared to Omnis? Not a troll post. I'm just that shocked cause right now, it looks like IS Mechs are more customizable than Omni's are going to be.

They have always been.

[MWHawke]

Norris J Packard, on 01 February 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

They have always been.

*Faints*

[Norris J Packard]

MWHawke, on 01 February 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

*Faints*

This is why I speculated in one of my previous posts (the last page, I believe) that in all likelihood PGI will keep a lot of things locked by default. However they will probably allow us to unlock them via the Upgrades tab since unlike their BattleMech counterparts, Clan OmniMechs tend to have basically every upgrade that you could imagine.

[HAV0C]

MWHawke, on 01 February 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Seriously, are we really having more ability to config IS Mechs as compared to Omnis? Not a troll post. I'm just that shocked cause right now, it looks like IS Mechs are more customizable than Omni's are going to be.

<S> A brief explanation:

As currently implemented, I.S. mechs are more 'moddable' than clan 'mechs. However, Omnimech technology does bring a significant advantage to the field when you take into consideration the following.

Inner Sphere battlemechs are 'built' as standard configurations in a mech production facility (the Hunchback HBK 4G for example) and in order to do ANYTHING to change that, requires significant time, money, and efford to do. ESPECIALLY when it comes to engine swaps, or God forbid changing the internal structure out. It'd be like replacing the frame or engine of a car, you basically would have to all but completely dissassemble the entire thing and put it back together after replacing the part or parts you would want to at CONSIDERABLE expense and time (Multiple millions of Cbills and weeks to months of time depending on what was being done.)

In this regard, yes I.S. battlemechs are substantially more 'flexable' if you have the financial resources and time to devote to it.

Omnimechs on the other hand are, much like their Battlemech breatheren, built in a factory with default equipment such as engines, heat sinks, electronics, and actuators for movement. However their weapons are not hard-wired in and instead use 'pod space'. There are multiple variants of a single chassis, (The Thor Primary, A alteration, B Alteration, C alteration, etc.) that can be 'hot swapped' in a matter of HOURS versus taking months to re-arm a Battlemech. Each Alteration of an Omnimech is designed to work with the pod space and tonnage of that Omnimech. In the previous example, you have a Thor Primary Alteration and know you're going to be fighting in an area where the C Alteration would be far better suited. You tell the Technician Caste of the clan to swap it out and within the next day your weapons are completely changed over and you're ready to go. This sort of thing was unheard of in the Inner Sphere and as you can imagine.

Yes the armor and internal structure and electronics are locked, but bear in mind that ALL Battlemechs are locked in this way in canon in weapons as well. What we're able to do in mechlab in seconds would give us pause if it took the time it does in the lore. You want endo steel on that hunchback? That'll be 2 million Cbills and you can't play the 'mech for 6 to 8 weeks.

Just throwing that out there.

<S>

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Phoenix Branson]

HAV0C, on 01 February 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis

Off Topic, Havoc did you ever serve in the U.S. Military?

Edited by Maverick01, 01 February 2013 - 09:19 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

Maverick01, on 01 February 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Off Topic, Havoc did you ever serve in the U.S. Military?

Safe bet is "no"

[HAV0C]

Maverick01, on 01 February 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Off Topic, Havoc did you ever serve in the U.S. Military?

<S> Maverick01

Negative sir, I have several prior military in my family but I have not ever been a member of the U.S. Armed Forces. I am however a Law Enforcement Officer (Police). I had initially planned on going into the military, however family health problems required I stay close to home to help. My skillset being what it is, law enforcement was the obvious choice for me. I've not ruled out National Guard, (I'm still in my 20's) but again I spend a great deal of time between shifts at work helping my family. I could get away with being gone for most of a week during my Police Academy as I was home every weekend to take care of things. Being gone for multiple weeks to basic training would be problematic.

Hopefully that answered your question. With that said I'll return to our regularly scheduled 'mech discussion.

My money is on the Zeus next. Call it a gut feeling.

<S>

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[HAV0C]

Lonestar1771, on 01 February 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Safe bet is "no"

This is correct, however I do serve in my own way. I do carry a weapon and wear a uniform and body armor to work every day. I just had to do it here in the U.S. instead of overseas due to the reasons explained in my previous post.

<S> See you guys dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Lonestar1771]

HAV0C, on 01 February 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

This is correct, however I do serve in my own way. I do carry a weapon and wear a uniform and body armor to work every day. I just had to do it here in the U.S. instead of overseas due to the reasons explained in my previous post.

<S> See you guys dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

I only said that because a long time ago someone asked why you did the <S> thing and I recall you mentioned not being military, but I wasn't sure if it was you, no offense intended by my previous post, just terrible wording.

[Phoenix Branson]

HAV0C, on 01 February 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

This is correct, however I do serve in my own way. I do carry a weapon and wear a uniform and body armor to work every day. I just had to do it here in the U.S. instead of overseas due to the reasons explained in my previous post.

&lt;S&gt; See you guys dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew &quot;Havoc&quot; Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

I have tremendous respect for law enforcement, dealing with human scum day in and day out. I also agree with you, the Zeus will be BattleMech 20.

[Lonestar1771]

Maverick01, on 01 February 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I have tremendous respect for law enforcement, dealing with human scum day in and day out. I also agree with you, the Zeus will be BattleMech 20.

Except when they give me a ticket for no turn signal lol.

[HAV0C]

Lonestar1771, on 01 February 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

I only said that because a long time ago someone asked why you did the <S> thing and I recall you mentioned not being military, but I wasn't sure if it was you, no offense intended by my previous post, just terrible wording.

No offene taken sir, rest assured. I did indeed previously state I had not been in the military.

On a totally unrelated note, I noticed the Lyrian Commonwealth fist in your signature. Will Murphy's Law be working for House Steiner once we get to Community Warfare?

I only as as Death's Hand Brigade will also be working in Lyrian Space and taking the majority of our contracts from the Lyrian Commonwealth. If Murphy's Law would like to set up some scrimmages, do get in touch with me, or the DHB's ambassadors, Major Caviel or Captain Soulfire.

<S> See you dirtside there Lonestar

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

Edit: Sorry, had my wires crossed, Lonestar, not Maverick. Yay confusion!

Edited by HAV0C, 01 February 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

HAV0C, on 01 February 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

No offene taken sir, rest assured. I did indeed previously state I had not been in the military.

On a totally unrelated note, I noticed the Lyrian Commonwealth fist in your signature. Will Murphy's Law be working for House Steiner once we get to Community Warfare?

I only as as Death's Hand Brigade will also be working in Lyrian Space and taking the majority of our contracts from the Lyrian Commonwealth. If Murphy's Law would like to set up some scrimmages, do get in touch with me, or the DHB's ambassadors, Major Caviel or Captain Soulfire.

<S> See you dirtside there Maverick

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

I think the head honchos have spoken before about this, but I don't recall what came about from it. I'll bring it up on our site.

[HAV0C]

Lonestar1771, on 01 February 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

I think the head honchos have spoken before about this, but I don't recall what came about from it. I'll bring it up on our site.

<S>

Good deal, I feel that those Mercenaries that plan to work for specific factions should begin to establish some rapport, as we may be relying on one another in Community Warfare if it's implemented how I (hope and) expect it will be. I hope to begin to establish some sort of Lyrian Mercenary confederation to operate within a greater Mercenary Review and Bonding Comission (MRBC) group that can eventually be formed.

There's surely no rush, as Community Warfare is still a few months out at best estimate, but it can't hurt all the same to at least check the interest in such a thing.

On topic: It may very well be the Banshee we get, but I've just got a feeling that we'll be seeing the Zeus as the next announced 'mech. I've been wrong on this before of course. Guess all we can do is hide and watch for now.

<S> See you guys dirtside soon.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[MWHawke]

HAV0C, on 01 February 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

<S> A brief explanation:

As currently implemented, I.S. mechs are more 'moddable' than clan 'mechs. However, Omnimech technology does bring a significant advantage to the field when you take into consideration the following.

Inner Sphere battlemechs are 'built' as standard configurations in a mech production facility (the Hunchback HBK 4G for example) and in order to do ANYTHING to change that, requires significant time, money, and efford to do. ESPECIALLY when it comes to engine swaps, or God forbid changing the internal structure out. It'd be like replacing the frame or engine of a car, you basically would have to all but completely dissassemble the entire thing and put it back together after replacing the part or parts you would want to at CONSIDERABLE expense and time (Multiple millions of Cbills and weeks to months of time depending on what was being done.)

In this regard, yes I.S. battlemechs are substantially more 'flexable' if you have the financial resources and time to devote to it.

Omnimechs on the other hand are, much like their Battlemech breatheren, built in a factory with default equipment such as engines, heat sinks, electronics, and actuators for movement. However their weapons are not hard-wired in and instead use 'pod space'. There are multiple variants of a single chassis, (The Thor Primary, A alteration, B Alteration, C alteration, etc.) that can be 'hot swapped' in a matter of HOURS versus taking months to re-arm a Battlemech. Each Alteration of an Omnimech is designed to work with the pod space and tonnage of that Omnimech. In the previous example, you have a Thor Primary Alteration and know you're going to be fighting in an area where the C Alteration would be far better suited. You tell the Technician Caste of the clan to swap it out and within the next day your weapons are completely changed over and you're ready to go. This sort of thing was unheard of in the Inner Sphere and as you can imagine.

Yes the armor and internal structure and electronics are locked, but bear in mind that ALL Battlemechs are locked in this way in canon in weapons as well. What we're able to do in mechlab in seconds would give us pause if it took the time it does in the lore. You want endo steel on that hunchback? That'll be 2 million Cbills and you can't play the 'mech for 6 to 8 weeks.

Just throwing that out there.

<S>

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

Don't know what there is to explain. I'm just surprised that IS Mechs will be more tweak-able than Omni's. But good writing for newbies to understand.

[HAV0C]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

Don't know what there is to explain. I'm just surprised that IS Mechs will be more tweak-able than Omni's. But good writing for newbies to understand.

<S> MWHawke

It's always been that way to be honest. That's one of the reasons why the clans were so devastatingly powerful when they first invaded. Inner Sphere Battlemechs were, for the most part, unchanged from when they left the factory. Meaning you worked with what you were given as a Mechwarrior. Clan Omnimechs not only have the benefit of advanced Clan weaponry (LRM launchers that weigh half as much and have NO MINIMUM RANGE, Ultra autocannons in 2, 5, 10 and 20 sizes that are lighter than their I.S. counterparts, Gauss Rifles that are lighter than their I.S. Counterparts, Lazers and PPC's that are lighter, hit harder and reach further, Streak SRM's in 2, 4 and 6 tube launchers, the list goes on and on), you marry those weapons with being able to tailor your 'mech loadout (From a list of pre-arranged variants) to best suit the battlefield you're going to be fighting on. Open area with few obsticals and little cover? Bring LRM's and/or long range laser weaponry. Short range engagement? Bring an Ultra Autocannon and a Streak SRM 6 launcher. Clan Mechwarriors could choose to tailor their weaponry to suit the terrain and engagement a day before the drop and be ready to go. Hell, in the same planetary assault you could see the same Clan omnimech outfitted in two, or three different variations of weapons configurations over the span of a WEEK provided the Clan techs had a place they could work out of.

Will PGI stick to this sort of thing, only allowing you to swap out the pod space weaponry on an Omnimech? Who knows, I know I'd enjoy seeing the Clan tech balanced this way personally. But that's just me.

<S> See you fellas dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[MWHawke]

HAV0C, on 02 February 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

<S> MWHawke

It's always been that way to be honest. That's one of the reasons why the clans were so devastatingly powerful when they first invaded. Inner Sphere Battlemechs were, for the most part, unchanged from when they left the factory. Meaning you worked with what you were given as a Mechwarrior. Clan Omnimechs not only have the benefit of advanced Clan weaponry (LRM launchers that weigh half as much and have NO MINIMUM RANGE, Ultra autocannons in 2, 5, 10 and 20 sizes that are lighter than their I.S. counterparts, Gauss Rifles that are lighter than their I.S. Counterparts, Lazers and PPC's that are lighter, hit harder and reach further, Streak SRM's in 2, 4 and 6 tube launchers, the list goes on and on), you marry those weapons with being able to tailor your 'mech loadout (From a list of pre-arranged variants) to best suit the battlefield you're going to be fighting on. Open area with few obsticals and little cover? Bring LRM's and/or long range laser weaponry. Short range engagement? Bring an Ultra Autocannon and a Streak SRM 6 launcher. Clan Mechwarriors could choose to tailor their weaponry to suit the terrain and engagement a day before the drop and be ready to go. Hell, in the same planetary assault you could see the same Clan omnimech outfitted in two, or three different variations of weapons configurations over the span of a WEEK provided the Clan techs had a place they could work out of.

Will PGI stick to this sort of thing, only allowing you to swap out the pod space weaponry on an Omnimech? Who knows, I know I'd enjoy seeing the Clan tech balanced this way personally. But that's just me.

<S> See you fellas dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

Not really, if you look at the other MW games, you could customize the armor loadouts for clan Mechs.

[Adridos]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Not really, if you look at the other MW games, you could customize the armor loadouts for clan Mechs.

And you could swap out weapons without any restrictions, and change omni-mech engines, and load up IS mechs with clan equipment, and your mechs were going stackpole, and the Blackknight had JJs, and lasers were hitscan, and ACs fired like machineguns (in which case, we arescrewed, since Russian MBTs are fully loaded with ACs), the tanks and aircraft were nothing short of fodder, and we fought in conflicts that never happened, and we had infinite coolant that diodn't require any tonnage, and....

Edited by Adridos, 02 February 2013 - 04:00 AM.

[HAV0C]

MWHawke, on 02 February 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Not really, if you look at the other MW games, you could customize the armor loadouts for clan Mechs.

Like every other 'mechwarrior game before it, they're taking their own liberties to the 'mechlab in an effort to make the game fun and entertaining.

Just because you could do it in the previous 'mechwarrior titles, doesn't mean you could do it in the original battletech boardgame (Or Mechwarrior RPG supplement) that the video games are drawn from. Does that mean we stay slaves to the tabletop? No, we can't and shouldn't in my view.

But that doesn't mean we can't take the good parts of the tabletop design ideas and implement/improve them.

I wonder how many 'power' builds such as the 6x SRM 6 splattercat catapult we would see if it cost both Cbills and TIME to swap weapons out? You want that Splatterpult 'mech? Ok, it'll cost you 25,000 Cbills per SRM 6 launcher, another Million to strip the LRM 20's out of the arms and have our engineers get the 18 SRM tubes to fit in that arm space correctly so that the ammo feeds properly from wherever it's stored (In the leg?? REALLY?) to the launcher, and four weeks to complete the modification. Oh, for an extra million Cbills we could get it finished in three weeks though if you're lucky. What's that? You want to swap the engine to an XL now too?? Oh well let me get my abacus to calculate what that'll cost ya, and it'll be another five to six weeks at least before it's completed and ready to go also...

Yea,.. puts a whole new spin on things doesn't it? I'm not advocating the above be implemented by the way, just saying that there needs to be an appreciation for 'instant gratification' in the 'mechlab as we have it.

I personally would like to see a 'stock only' game mode one day. Where each team gets to select their mech and you get the default loadout of the mechs with no modifications done. The only thing you'd be able to tweak would perhaps be Moduals, past that you run it as it came from the factory. I think it'd really let people test their mettle, as it's not who brings the best build as much as who can elevate their abilities in a stock 'mech and use what they have at their disposal. Your LRM launchers only have two tons of ammo? Well I guess that means you better play smart and not waste your ammo then huh? That UAC 5 only has 25 rounds? Better make damn sure you hit with all 25 of them then!

Just my thoughts on that end.

<S> See y'all dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Jack Gallows]

Ok, this is pretty simple. Current I.S. mech lab allows for more customization then is canonically possible for a Battlemech, but it is so that we can have an enjoyable game. That is NOT to say you couldn't have one otherwise, it's just how PGI has decided to go. IS mechs can technically mod anything in canon, but moving anything or upgrading anything required MONTHS of time and had the possibility of not working due to a 'mechs structure not being able to handle it. Ergo why we had mass produced variants. Omni-mechs have essentially the same thing for core design parts, but weapons bay that were slid in and slide out to make weapon changes on the fly basically.

This means, very simply, that they will devise something to set Omni-mechs apart from standard mechs. My thoughts are that their hardpoints will not be hard coded to a weapon type. Example, Clan Omni-Mech A has 3 hardpoints in it's arms, and 2 per R/L Torso. Inner Sphere Battlemech A has the same, but the difference is that Clan Omni-Mech can place any combo of weapons in those hardpoints where IS Mech cannot. He's got 3 Ballistics in the arms and 2 Lasers in the torsos, meaning he's more restricted then an Omni while still being able to be modded like it's currently able.

As for locking engines/etc, if they do this (and I'm not really sure they will, but there's gotta be something to make variants unique maybe,) then you'll probably see as discussed earlier with the ability to unlock certain things. Honestly if Clanners don't like this idea, I'm really not overly worried about it. Lots of possibility for cheese, but then that's exactly what the Clans are. They brought cheese to TT, they'll bring cheese to MW:O unless PGI alters how they work. And that...is a scary idea since the backlash from Clanners will be epic if their shiny toys get messed with.

Wtb Cyclops or Hatamoto-Chi, though a Zeus is fine too. (Cyclops for second ECM Assault, go!)

HAV0C, on 02 February 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

I personally would like to see a 'stock only' game mode one day. Where each team gets to select their mech and you get the default loadout of the mechs with no modifications done. The only thing you'd be able to tweak would perhaps be Moduals, past that you run it as it came from the factory. I think it'd really let people test their mettle, as it's not who brings the best build as much as who can elevate their abilities in a stock 'mech and use what they have at their disposal. Your LRM launchers only have two tons of ammo? Well I guess that means you better play smart and not waste your ammo then huh? That UAC 5 only has 25 rounds? Better make damn sure you hit with all 25 of them then!

Just my thoughts on that end.

<S> See y'all dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

Well, they've talked about letting us have private matches, which is one more way we might be able to actually have stock battles or tournaments. Having an official game mode would be pretty awesome, even making it a part of a future Solaris section of the game would be neat too. Things change SOOO quickly when you can't mod a 'mech (for example, the Jenner F would see more play possibly then the D due to armor values /etc.)

I'll say it again though.....


Wtb Cyclops or Hatamoto-Chi, though a Zeus is fine too. (Cyclops for second ECM Assault, go!)

Edited by Jack Gallows, 02 February 2013 - 05:26 AM.