20517 replies to this topic

[Norris J Packard]

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Example base variant I use:

AS7-D(F) Atlas

300 Standard Engine
27 Standard Heat Sinks
AC/20 (4 Tons of ammo)
2x SRM6 (2 Tons of ammo
4x Medium Lasers

C.A.S.E protects the AC/20 and SRM6 + Ammo for both.
544/614 Armor (Armor reduced in legs as you never generally ever see a legged Atlas. I mean really....the damn thing has enough max leg armor to out armor a freaking medium mech CT.)

You can make a 350 Engine Atlas variant to give me and that's all fine well and dandy, have a few myself, but they don't outclass ones that don't use a 350 in every situation. 350 is incredibly useful, but so are smaller engine sizes for various reasons.

You can do that build, but even better with DHS, Endo, and a 350.

[Jack Gallows]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

You can do that build, but even better with DHS, Endo, and a 350.

Except the heat dissipation isn't as good and you can't have C.A.S.E. unless you reduce armor even further from something else or reduce the amount of ammo you have, or remove lasers. Not always an acceptable trade off. It's not "better" it just removes parts for speed. Having extra speed can be good, but it's not exactly as important as you make it sound.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 12 February 2013 - 04:39 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 12 February 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Clan can wait one month. Tomorrow is time for the 5th Assault!

Indeed! Go Banshee (or Cyclops)!

[Jack Gallows]

Strum Wealh, on 12 February 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Indeed! Go Banshee (or Cyclops)!

/puts Sturm in a box

Go Cyclops! (No Banshee!)

[Norris J Packard]

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Except the heat dissipation isn't as good and you can't have C.A.S.E. unless you reduce armor even further from something else or reduce the amount of ammo you have, or remove lasers. Not always an acceptable trade off. It's not "better" it just removes parts for speed. Having extra speed can be good, but it's not exactly as important as you make it sound.

Uh what? 17 DHS, 10 of which are Truedubs (29.8 SHS) versus 27 SHS.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 12 February 2013 - 04:42 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

Uh what? 17 DHS, 10 of which are Truedubs (29.8 SHS) versus 27 SHS.

My bad, I forgot they changed internal engine heat sinks to 2.0 instead of the bogus 1.4 Doubles. But, you cannot fit C.A.S.E. to protect from an ammunition explosion, meaning it's not as survivable as something with a smaller engine. I'll trade off a slightly slower speed for the ability to keep fighting long after a faster Atlas has blown wide open.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 12 February 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

My bad, I forgot they changed internal engine heat sinks to 2.0 instead of the bogus 1.4 Doubles. But, you cannot fit C.A.S.E. to protect from an ammunition explosion, meaning it's not as survivable as something with a smaller engine. I'll trade off a slightly slower speed for the ability to keep fighting long after a faster Atlas has blown wide open.

You understand how ammo works, right?

That's nice. Don't put it in your CT or Side-torsos and you already have a better chance of winning the power ball then you do have having an ammo explosion on an Atlas. Even if you constantly give them your arms, the likelihood of them critting a single ton of ammo in the correct arm before you've used it up is pretty unlikely.

No offense, but you're argument is pretty weak and sounds more like you just don't want to admit that I can build the same Mech, but better.

[Jack Gallows]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

You understand how ammo works, right?

That's nice. Don't put it in your CT or Side-torsos and you already have a better chance of winning the power ball then you do have having an ammo explosion on an Atlas. Even if you constantly give them your arms, the likelihood of them critting a single ton of ammo in the correct arm before you've used it up is pretty unlikely.

No offense, but you're argument is pretty weak and sounds more like you just don't want to admit that I can build the same Mech, but better.

I'm well aware of not putting ammunition in the torso, but with two weapons that carry ammo you can't dump it all in the legs to stop from getting hit with it unless you want to severely reduce the amount of ammo you have to the point you get almost no shots during a long fight. I don't give two dracs if you can make a better 'mech then me, some things aren't always worth the trade, and sometimes they are.

[Norris J Packard]

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I'm well aware of not putting ammunition in the torso, but with two weapons that carry ammo you can't dump it all in the legs to stop from getting hit with it unless you want to severely reduce the amount of ammo you have to the point you get almost no shots during a long fight. I don't give two dracs if you can make a better 'mech then me, some things aren't always worth the trade, and sometimes they are.

Legs, Head, one ton of ammo in the arm for whatever weapon. Congrats.

[Jack Gallows]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Legs, Head, one ton of ammo in the arm for whatever weapon. Congrats.

Arm explodes taking out either your arm and ballistic or arm and missile hardpoints, wrecking your offensive capabilities.

[Norris J Packard]

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Arm explodes taking out either your arm and ballistic or arm and missile hardpoints, wrecking your offensive capabilities.

I have played over 6,000 games, I have had that happen to me one time. Literally one time.

[Herodes]

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Example base variant I use:

AS7-D(F) Atlas

300 Standard Engine
27 Standard Heat Sinks
AC/20 (4 Tons of ammo)
2x SRM6 (2 Tons of ammo
4x Medium Lasers

C.A.S.E protects the AC/20 and SRM6 + Ammo for both.
544/614 Armor (Armor reduced in legs as you never generally ever see a legged Atlas. I mean really....the damn thing has enough max leg armor to out armor a freaking medium mech CT.)

DHS are de facto always superior, you should use them.
CASE only protects the CT, not the side torsos nor the equipment they house.

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Arm explodes taking out either your arm and ballistic or arm and missile hardpoints, wrecking your offensive capabilities.

Yes. But neither CASE nor your build will change this. That's the game.


In the end, IMHO, and ppolitely so, Jack's build can be improved.
However, that is not a reason that a 350 engine is mandatory or always better in an Atlas. The weight of such an engine severly cripples the loadout the Mech can take. This might not be of great importance when running energy builds, especially given the crit savings with the engine thus allowing ES to bo mounted, it is however a game breaker when running ballistics or missiles.
The almost exponential weight gain of engines makes the Atlas much less viable with bigger engines. Compared to the Stalker in stock config, meaning running at roughly 50kph, it already has a very similar max loadout dedspite being 15 tons heavier. Now with an 350 engine ...

[Lonestar1771]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

You understand how ammo works, right?

That's nice. Don't put it in your CT or Side-torsos and you already have a better chance of winning the power ball then you do have having an ammo explosion on an Atlas. Even if you constantly give them your arms, the likelihood of them critting a single ton of ammo in the correct arm before you've used it up is pretty unlikely.

No offense, but you're argument is pretty weak and sounds more like you just don't want to admit that I can build the same Mech, but better.

This is why I didn't post my build. Norris, can you try to tone down the ego a little bit please?

[Norris J Packard]

Lonestar1771, on 12 February 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

This is why I didn't post my build. Norris, can you try to tone down the ego a little bit please?

What ego? I'm just stating facts.

It's a non-issue that someone is getting hung up on thereby denying themselves a better build.

[Ens]

its pure maths...

[Lonestar1771]

It's not about right or wrong or math, it's your delivery. It may be getting lost in translation, but you kinda come off as a know-it-all and some people don't respond well to that.

[Norris J Packard]

Lonestar1771, on 12 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

It's not about right or wrong or math, it's your delivery. It may be getting lost in translation, but you kinda come off as a know-it-all and some people don't respond well to that.

But I do know it all.

[Strum Wealh]

Jack Gallows, on 12 February 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

/puts Sturm in a box

Go Cyclops! (No Banshee!)

/frees himself from the box and continues to advocate for the Banshee as the primary candidate for BattleMech 20, while also advocating for the Cyclops as a secondary choice and making a post in another thread that will likely have Odanan and several other people experiencing mechgasms over the potential of certain Victor variants...

Edited by Strum Wealh, 12 February 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

Norris J Packard, on 12 February 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

But I do know it all.

LOL you and everyone else on the forums, myself included.

Edited by Lonestar1771, 12 February 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[Herodes]

Hey ... I don't know it all. But I know one thing: the King Crab should be next.