20517 replies to this topic

[Norris J Packard]

Belorion, on 10 March 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

So you are suggesting that we will only have 16 clan mechs in the game for the forseable future (8 years until the next TRO)?

Many of the descriptions in the TRO state that the mechs have been there for quite some time, it is only that they are appearing in the TRO's after the fact.

Yup.

Mainly because 16 Mechs is 1 year and 4 months worth of Mechs.

PGI has shown they cannot produce Mechs faster than 1 per month and as a result it is unreasonable to ask for more.

They could always do a time-skip, but I doubt they will until at least a year from now. Assuming they just don't do a timeline reset to give CW some purpose prior to the Clans introduction.

[Strum Wealh]

Belorion, on 10 March 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

I am not sure what your point is. Neither is the Highlander or the Dragon, not to mention most of the varients of the mech in game. For example the only Commando in the TRO 3050 is the 5S, which isn't even in the game. If they have gone by a particular TRO for these first IS mechs, it has been the TRO 3039.

Belorion, on 10 March 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

So you are suggesting that we will only have 16 clan mechs in the game for the forseable future (8 years until the next TRO)?

Many of the descriptions in the TRO state that the mechs have been there for quite some time, it is only that they are appearing in the TRO's after the fact.

For the second-line Clan 'Mechs (such as the IICs), it's less about which TRO they're presented in and more about

• a large number of them are Unseen (as indicated by blacked-out silhouettes in their respective Master Unit List entries), and
  
• the majority of those that aren't Unseen don't have three variants ("variants" rather than "configurations", since none of them are OmniMechs), which means they don't fit into MWO's leveling scheme (as the lack of variants means that one cannot unlock the Elite efficiencies, as the XP system currently stands)

This was actually covered in another thread.

Strum Wealh, on 27 January 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Not only can I agree with it, but I put forward a variation of that notion some time ago.

Among the issues with the previous list is that there are a number of the "IIC 'Mechs" (and non-IIC "second-line" Clan 'Mechs) that would not be available due to certain factors, such as being Unseen (and not having approved Reseen imagery) or not fitting with MWO's timeline, or not having the available variants (as they are generally "standard BattleMechs" rather than OmniMechs).
As for a listing...

• Bane/"Kraken": Unseen; third variant is available in 3054
  
• Beowulf IIC: not Unseen; exactly one variant, not available until 3084
  
• Black Python/"Viper": Unseen; third variant is available in 3066
  
• Commando IIC: not Unseen; exactly one variant
  
• Clint IIC: not Unseen; third variant is available in 3073
  
• Conjourer/"Hellhound": Unseen; third variant is available in 3064
  
• Dervish IIC: non-canon, exactly one variant, not available until 3058
  
• Glass Spider/"Galahad": Unseen; third variant is available in 3065
  
• Great Wyrm: not Unseen, but not enough variants (only two, plus one unique "Hero 'Mech")
  
• Griffin IIC: Unseen; third variant is available in 3060
  
• Grizzly: not Unseen, but not enough variants (only two)
  
• Guillotine IIC: not Unseen, but not enough variants (only two)
  
• Highlander IIC: not Unseen; third variant is available in 3077
  
• Horned Owl/"Peregrine": Unseen; third variant is available in 3061
  
• Howler/"Baboon": Unseen; third variant is available in 3066
  
• Hunchback IIC: not Unseen; third variant is available in 3062
  
• Incubus/"Vixen": Unseen
  
• Jenner IIC: Unseen
  
• Koshi: not Unseen; not available until the Dark Age (3131+)
  
• Locust IIC: Unseen
  
• Marauder IIC: not Unseen ; third variant is available in 3064
  
• Orion IIC: not Unseen; exactly one variant
  
• Phoenix Hawk IIC: Unseen; third variant is available in 3062
  
• Rifleman IIC: Unseen; third variant is available in 3062
  
• Shadow Hawk IIC: Unseen; third variant is available in 3060
  
• Stinger IIC: not Unseen , but not enough variants (only two); not available until 3085
  
• Stone Rhino/"Behemoth": Unseen; third variant is available in 3068
  
• Supernova: not Unseen; third variant is available in 3064
  
• Thunderbolt IIC: not Unseen ; not enough variants (only two); not available until 3085
  
• UrbanMech IIC: not Unseen, but not enough variants (only two)
  
• Vapor Eagle/"Goshawk": Unseen; third variant is available in 3062
  
• Warhammer IIC: Unseen; third variant is available in 3060
  
• Wolfhound IIC: not Unseen, exactly one variant, and not available until 3051
  
• Wyvern IIC: not Unseen; but not enough variants (only two)

It's not an issue of being "against variety (and freedom)", but one of acknowleging that 'Mechs must meet certain criteria to even be considered for inclusion in MWO... and those 'Mechs that do not meet one or more of these criteria are unlikely to be considered, much less implemented.

[CDLord HHGD]

Belorion, on 10 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

I kind of get the impression that the first Clan mechs we will see will be comprised of a lot of the II versions of the mechs already in game. This will let them bring a full line up to the game with only minimal additions. Thought I am sure the Mad Cat/Timberwolf will be among the additions lest they get lynched.

There are less of them than I remembered or I should say, there are less of them that are not unseen that I remember but it does give the option for:

Hunchback IIC
Orion IIC
Highlander IIC
Commando IIC
Jenner IIC

URBANMECH IIC!

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 10 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

For the second-line Clan 'Mechs (such as the IICs), it's less about which TRO they're presented in and more about

• a large number of them are Unseen (as indicated by blacked-out silhouettes in their respective Master Unit List entries), and
  
• the majority of those that aren't Unseen don't have three variants ("variants" rather than "configurations", since none of them are OmniMechs), which means they don't fit into MWO's leveling scheme (as the lack of variants means that one cannot unlock the Elite efficiencies, as the XP system currently stands)

This was actually covered in another thread.

If you use the IIC mechs, you don't need 3 variants. You could count them as variants for the IS ones. (as said in the OP)

[Odanan]

About the TROs, come on, guys. Like 3058 wasn't the year of introduction of most of these clan mechs: they existed before (heck, even the descriptions state about that). So, having them in the game is not a timeline transgression.

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 10 March 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

About the TROs, come on, guys. Like 3058 wasn't the year of introduction of most of these clan mechs: they existed before (heck, even the descriptions state about that). So, having them in the game is not a timeline transgression.

Due to TRO 3050 and countless novels, we know that the Clans invaded with their Omnis primarily, but we also know that even though not featured in a TRO, there were second line mechs in play as well. It will be interesting to see what PGI has planned. I think we'll see the 3050 omnis before any IIC variants thought otherwise we'd have a flood of hate from people wanting their Mad Cat/Vulture......

[Michael Costanza]

According to canon, Wolf's Dragoons were using some Clantech before 3050.

[Belorion]

Norris J Packard, on 10 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yup.

Mainly because 16 Mechs is 1 year and 4 months worth of Mechs.

PGI has shown they cannot produce Mechs faster than 1 per month and as a result it is unreasonable to ask for more.

They could always do a time-skip, but I doubt they will until at least a year from now. Assuming they just don't do a timeline reset to give CW some purpose prior to the Clans introduction.

They have to introduce at least 4 chassis at once when the Clans come on the scene, but I think it more likely that they will put in more. Maybe 8 at once. Even if they stick to the original 16 from the 3050 TRO, I think it is perfectly acceptable to add mechs from the 3058/3060 TROs after that as long as the introduction date is prior to the current in game time. They didn't just spring on the scene in 3058 or 3060.

The only reason I think they would use the IIC variants is that they are pretty much already in the game, and technically were introduced prior to 3050.

[Norris J Packard]

Belorion, on 10 March 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

They have to introduce at least 4 chassis at once when the Clans come on the scene, but I think it more likely that they will put in more. Maybe 8 at once. Even if they stick to the original 16 from the 3050 TRO, I think it is perfectly acceptable to add mechs from the 3058/3060 TROs after that as long as the introduction date is prior to the current in game time. They didn't just spring on the scene in 3058 or 3060.

The only reason I think they would use the IIC variants is that they are pretty much already in the game, and technically were introduced prior to 3050.

The IIC's create mixtech which entirely subverts ALL of the strengths of the OmniMechs.

So no, I don't think they will.

[Odanan]

Norris J Packard, on 10 March 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

The IIC's create mixtech which entirely subverts ALL of the strengths of the OmniMechs.

So no, I don't think they will.

Why it subverts? If they give some disadvantage in terms of customization to the Omni chassis, the clan non-Omni mechs could have some balance with them (as they would work more like the IS ones).

The thing is: Hunchback IIC will come! A promise is a promise.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 10 March 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

The thing is: Hunchback IIC will come! A promise is a promise.

Odanan, on 10 March 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

If you use the IIC mechs, you don't need 3 variants. You could count them as variants for the IS ones. (as said in the OP)

If the HBK-IIC is implemented, I doubt it would be as a mere variant of the Hunchback - they're entirely separate 'Mechs, with completely different layouts and tech bases that don't necessarily allow cross-compatibility.

Tthe Clans don't use the tech that would be necessary to create a standard HBK-4G (they do not have standard ACs or standard lasers), nor does the IS have the capability to produce an equivalent of the HBK-IIC with their own tech (no UAC/20s or ERMLs, and equivalent Level 1 items are too bulky and/or heavy to make the design work).
The IIC 'Mechs are arguably more different from their IS counterparts than the IS upgrade 'Mechs are from their IS originals (e.g. Dragon vs Grand Dragon).

And then there are the issues of how the Clanners would be expected to unlock the Elite efficiencies without having to capture and pilot IS 'Mechs; Clanners wanting - and necessarily needing - to use IS machines instead of Clan-built units (while not completely unheard of) to "level up" may not be something be something that the Devs would want to encourage...?

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 10 March 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

And then there are the issues of how the Clanners would be expected to unlock the Elite efficiencies without having to capture and pilot IS 'Mechs; Clanners wanting - and necessarily needing - to use IS machines instead of Clan-built units (while not completely unheard of) to "level up" may not be something be something that the Devs would want to encourage...?

You got a point here...

[Odanan]

I was thinking... if the devs did a rewind of 1 year in the timeline, they could squeeze 1 more IS mech for each weight class.

Here are some suggestions of great mechs for MWO:

Light
- Firestarter (35 tons)

Medium
- Clint (40 tons)

Heavy
- Guillotine (70 tons)

Assault (considering one of them is the #20)
- Zeus (80 tons)
- Banshee (95 tons)

Why the timeline rollback?

1- We would have a chance to play Community Warfare before the Clans show up;
2- By August 3049, we could have a pick to the Clan mechs concept arts;
3- By March 3050, we could actually start to play with the Clans.

Edited by Odanan, 10 March 2013 - 06:30 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

Odanan, on 10 March 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

I was thinking... if the devs did a rewind of 1 year in the timeline, they could squeeze 1 more IS mech for each weight class.

Here are some suggestions of great mechs for MWO:

Light
- Firestarter (35 tons)

Medium
- Clint (40 tons)

Heavy
- Guillotine (70 tons)

Assault (considering one of them is the #20)
- Zeus (80 tons)
- Banshee (95 tons)

Why the timeline rollback?

1- We would have a chance to play Community Warfare before the Clans show up;
2- By August 3049, we could have a pick to the Clan mechs concept arts;
3- By March 3050, we could actually start to play with the Clans.

Unfortunately this would be the straw that broke the camel's back for many people. It would IMO also show that PGI had mishandled just about everything and would not bode well with investors/potential investors alike. They would be hard pressed to get any kind of meaningful work. I think a roll back would have made more sense back in say December, but personally I think that train left the station already and now PGI has to walk home in the rain.

Edited by Lonestar1771, 10 March 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 10 March 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Light
- Firestarter (35 tons)

Firestarter would have 6 energy hardpoints and 2 ballistics by default (4 flamers, 2 ML, and 2MGs)...Swayback Jr, anyone?

Edited by FupDup, 10 March 2013 - 07:18 PM.

[Adridos]

Odanan, on 10 March 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Medium
- Clint (40 tons)

We already have 1 partially useless 40 tonner that can do the same. And it only has 2 viable variants, with the SL era basic being AC/10 + ML and not JJs... and it's after a rollback, so no 3050 variants.

I think Vindicator would be a better idea.

[ZeroMaestro]

I suspect mech 20 will be a clan assault mech as the first clan mech in the game - I'm hoping Daishi.

[Thirdstar]

ZeroMaestro, on 10 March 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

I suspect mech 20 will be a clan assault mech as the first clan mech in the game - I'm hoping Daishi.

There's a very high likelihood that Clan mechs will be released in a set of 4 as previously discussed in this thread.

[SgtMagor]

think a Zeus or, Banshee, or a Battlemaster, will show up before the Clan mechs . I can wait for Clan mechs bring on the Banshee...

Edited by SgtMagor, 11 March 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[Odanan]

Thirdstar, on 10 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

There's a very high likelihood that Clan mechs will be released in a set of 4 as previously discussed in this thread.

Maybe the first 4 (with some kind of "Clan Founder Program"?). But the next ones would probably be 1 by 1.