20517 replies to this topic

[SgtMagor]

iirc the Devs already said no go for mechs without 3 variants in timeline...

[Strum Wealh]

SgtMagor, on 28 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

iirc the Devs already said no go for mechs without 3 variants in timeline...

Part of the issue is that the 'Mech needs to have three available standard variants (not one-off and character-unique units that they'd use as Hero 'Mechs, such as Yen Lo Wang or Pretty Baby) in order for F2P (that is, c-bill only) players to unlock the Elite efficiencies.

Going back to an example from Closed Beta:
The Centurion started with three variants: the CN9-A, CN9-AL, and CN9-AH.
The CN9-AH was removed from MWO on October 30, 2012 (roundabouts the one-year anniversary of the public opening of the forums), apparently to allow the then-newly-released Yen Lo Wang to stand out more.
However, this created the situation where the only way to get three variants (and, thus, the Elite efficiencies) was to pay MC (and thus, real capital) to purchase the Hero 'Mech.
This was eventually resolved one week later by the release of the CN9-D on November 06, 2012.

Unless PGI wants to make Hero 'Mechs purchasable by c-bills or make Elite efficiencies accessible only to those who shell out for MC, unique variants (that is, potential Hero 'Mechs) can't be counted as among the three variants.

On top of that, the BattleTech timeline is being used to determine the availability of tech (thus, why we do not currently have IS versions of the other LB-X or Ultra ACs, the other sizes of Streak launchers, and so on) - and PGI has evidently decided that this also includes 'Mech variants (whose introduction dates are generally known via the BattleTech TROs and Catalyst Game Labs' Master Unit List).

Thus, we can conclude that "having three production-model variants available as of the current corresponding date in the progression of the BattleTech timeline" is one of the - if not the - primary selection criteria for inclusion in MWO.
As such, those 'Mechs that do not meet that criterion - even "popular" 'Mechs like the Bushwacker (third production variant in 3056), Devastator (third production variant in 3058), Mauler (third production variant in 3060), Nightstar (third production variant in 3065), or Uziel (third production variant in 3075) - are generally considered to be "out of the running" for exactly that reason.

[Butane9000]

Just remember they aren't going off by what was or is being produced currently but by what was released up until this point.

Combined that with the role of the mech and it's standard technology is how they implement them.

[Lonestar1771]

wow.... took me forever to find this thread again! ZFTW!

[Odanan]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 28 April 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

I dont give a damn about the timeline if original release was pre 3050 then the mech should be in thats why i want the devastator alsdo even though it barely makes the time

"Daddy, I want a squirrel. Get me one of those squirrels, I want one."

also, "barely makes the time"?

[Phoenix Branson]

Here are my picks for the upcoming IS BattleMechs:

20 - Banshee
21 - UrbanMech (Hero Deputy Dawg)
22 - Vindicator
23 - Grasshopper
24 - Zeus (Hero Leonidas)

Edited by Maverick01, 29 April 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[SgtMagor]

if we get the Zeus, hope the Zeus x3 is the Hero mech

[Strum Wealh]

Maverick01, on 29 April 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Here are my picks for the upcoming IS BattleMechs:

20 - Banshee
21 - UrbanMech (Hero Deputy Dawg)
22 - Vindicator
23 - Grasshopper
24 - Zeus (Hero Leonidas)

SgtMagor, on 29 April 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

if we get the Zeus, hope the Zeus x3 is the Hero mech

With the Leonidas not appearing until 3056 & the X3 being a Dark Age 'Mech (that needs an XXL Engine (which doesn't come into being until 3055) and Improved Jump Jets (which don't come into being until 3069)), it seems unlikely that either would be a feasible option anytime soon.
A more likely Hero 'Mech for the Zeus, IMO, would be the Skokomish (described on pg. 160 of TRO 3039).

Quote

After his homeworld of Zavijava was attacked, Sealth left a conclave of people all descended from Native North Americans to join the Tenth Skye Rangers to help defend his people. An amazingly graceful MechWarrior, Sealth could move his Zeus as if it were a 'Mech half its weight, making it difficult to target. In the Fourth Succession War, he would flank formations, hitting and dodging. While the enemy was distracted by him, the rest of his unit would hit the enemy head on. After the fighting ended, Sealth retired back to Zavijava, taking his forest-green Zeus, Skokomish, with him.

As it happens, "Sealth" is one of the names attributed to the man known as "Chief Seattle" (namesake of the city of Seattle, Washington state, USA), "Skokomish" is the name of a prominent river in Washington state, and "Zavijava" is the name of an actual star (which is also known as "Beta Virginis") & apparently means "angle/corner/kennel of the dogs".

Edited by Strum Wealh, 30 April 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Can I vote for the Cyclops as the next Assault Mech?

I realize not all the important goodies are in game yet, but I figure much like the Raven was in game pre-ECM (and we just didn't have the 3L yet) we could get a couple of the more basic versions in-game, plus a nice Hero version, and then when the C₃ Computer shows, we can add the next 2 version.
A redesign to fit for MWO:

the B&W of the design

and the concept sketch


Some basics on the Variants:


CP-10-Z - The stock design, lightly armored for an Assault, it carries a massive 360 Engine, an Autocannon/20, LRM/10, SRM/4 and Medium Lasers in each arm.

CP-10-Q - The Q variant of the Cyclops attempts to keep enemies at range by removing the Autocannon/20 and replacing it with an additional LRM-10 and seven more tons of armor, making it very well protected.

CP-11-A - A common modification of the Cyclops that uses some rediscovered Star League technology, the 11-A removes the massive Autocannon/20 and replaces it with a Gauss Rifle which, although doing slightly less damage, has a much larger effective range.

CP-11-B - This version of the Cyclops carries a second Gauss Rifle, thirteen and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, and CASE. To make room for this equipment, engineers replaced the engine with a 270 rated model. Though this slows the Cyclops by 25%, the increased weaponry and armor protection compensates for the reduced speed.

CP-11-C - The 11-C is similar to the 11-A in that they carry an almost identical weapons payload. The only difference is that the 11-C has removed the LRM-10 launcher and replaced it with a C3 Computer, which allows it to share targeting data and coordinate C3 lances. An additional two tons of armor have been added to the design as well. This makes the 11-C a highly effective sniper and command 'Mech.

CP-11-C2 - Based on the 11-C variant, this Cyclops is a company command level machine that carries a pair of C3 Master Computers. To make room for these massive computers, the Gauss Rifle, its ammunition, and some armor were replaced by a single ER PPC. This leaves the Cyclops slightly undergunned for an assault 'Mech, but it shouldn't be engaging the enemy closely anyway.

I also freely admit, I partly want it in since it has not gotten any love in the last few MW titles. It would also be an ideal candidate for ECM, Command Console and possibly the largest stock number of module slots.

Thoughts?

[Karl Streiger]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

Can I vote for the Cyclops as the next Assault Mech?

No - you can't

Zeus first...every thing else have to follow

[Bishop Steiner]

Karl Streiger, on 30 April 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

No - you can't

Zeus first...every thing else have to follow

A Drac voting for a Lyran Mech....... next thing you know we'll find an honorable Liao......

[Deskup]

Can anyone clear up on why everyone is:
1. so hyped about banshee and zeus? I ca understand clans, atlas, some other mechs(fafnir lol), but why these 2? what will they bring?
2.Why is annihilator so ignored? It has a nice look, seems very solid armored, there sure were those 3 variants(similar, yes, but not same) and gausszilla as well.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

Can I vote for the Cyclops as the next Assault Mech?

I realize not all the important goodies are in game yet, but I figure much like the Raven was in game pre-ECM (and we just didn't have the 3L yet) we could get a couple of the more basic versions in-game, plus a nice Hero version, and then when the C₃ Computer shows, we can add the next 2 version.
A redesign to fit for MWO:

the B&W of the design

and the concept sketch


Some basics on the Variants:


CP-10-Z - The stock design, lightly armored for an Assault, it carries a massive 360 Engine, an Autocannon/20, LRM/10, SRM/4 and Medium Lasers in each arm.

CP-10-Q - The Q variant of the Cyclops attempts to keep enemies at range by removing the Autocannon/20 and replacing it with an additional LRM-10 and seven more tons of armor, making it very well protected.

CP-11-A - A common modification of the Cyclops that uses some rediscovered Star League technology, the 11-A removes the massive Autocannon/20 and replaces it with a Gauss Rifle which, although doing slightly less damage, has a much larger effective range.

CP-11-B - This version of the Cyclops carries a second Gauss Rifle, thirteen and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, and CASE. To make room for this equipment, engineers replaced the engine with a 270 rated model. Though this slows the Cyclops by 25%, the increased weaponry and armor protection compensates for the reduced speed.

CP-11-C - The 11-C is similar to the 11-A in that they carry an almost identical weapons payload. The only difference is that the 11-C has removed the LRM-10 launcher and replaced it with a C3 Computer, which allows it to share targeting data and coordinate C3 lances. An additional two tons of armor have been added to the design as well. This makes the 11-C a highly effective sniper and command 'Mech.

CP-11-C2 - Based on the 11-C variant, this Cyclops is a company command level machine that carries a pair of C3 Master Computers. To make room for these massive computers, the Gauss Rifle, its ammunition, and some armor were replaced by a single ER PPC. This leaves the Cyclops slightly undergunned for an assault 'Mech, but it shouldn't be engaging the enemy closely anyway.

I also freely admit, I partly want it in since it has not gotten any love in the last few MW titles. It would also be an ideal candidate for ECM, Command Console and possibly the largest stock number of module slots.

Thoughts?

I generally agree, as I posted a not-too-dissimilar idea myself (sans artwork suggestion).

Strum Wealh, on 11 January 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Admittedly, I'm not expecting the Cyclops to be BattleMech 20, but I don't think it's in the weakest of positions as far as potential selections for the next round or two of IS 'Mechs.

• The Cyclops is common and popular in-universe; "the Cyclops is a formidable weapon to be found in the battle lances of almost every `Mech regiment in the Successor States" and "the Cyclops has been a part of every major engagement in the Succession Wars, having proved itself in both close combat and as an efficient command control vehicle" (direct quotations from pg. 118 of the original TRO 3025).
  
• There are currently three 50-ton 'Mechs announced (and, with the Trebuchet's implementation slated for next month, there will be three 50-tonners in-game), so having the Cyclops at the same tonnage as the Highlander isn't too much of an issue (and would be less so if the Banshee is announced, which would have all weight brackets in the Assault class represented).
  
• As noted previously, the Cyclops with the variants listed (CP-10-Z-DC, CP-11-A-DC, and CP-11-C) stands to be the quintessential command 'Mech, especially if the Command Console and C3 Master Unit are implemented with capabilities from the advanced rules in Tactical Operations (as G-ECM was).
  
• The Cyclops has additional variants "in reserve", including the CP-10-Q (replaces the ballistic weapon with another LRM-10 and a Medium Laser, both in the RT) and the non-command variations of the CP-10-Z and the CP-11-A.

With a ~6-month turnaround from announcement to implementation, even putting the Cyclops in the next round of IS 'Mechs would likely mean that it wouldn't be expected to be implemented until around July or August, at the earliest - plenty of time for the Devs to implement and test the systems and capabilities needed to make it the great command 'Mech that we'll need in order to dispense with the Clanner scourge.

Your thoughts?

Strum Wealh, on 10 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

"Dual Cockpit refits: The Cyclops is one of the Capellan Confederation's preferred 'Mechs to install Dual Cockpits. Standard refits usually install the Dual Cockpit on a CP-10-Z or CP-11-A, removing one ton of autocannon or gauss rifle ammunition, respectively."

Variant 1: CP-10-Z-DC (available since 2750)
equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 AC/20 (RT), x1 LRM-10 (LT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a Command Console (HD)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x1 Energy
LT: x2 Missile
CT: x2 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x1 Ballistic
RA: x1 Energy

Variant 2: CP-11-A-DC (available since 3045)
Equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 Gauss Rifle (RT), x1 LRM-10 (LT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a Command Console (HD)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x2 Energy
LT: x1 Missile
CT: x1 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x1 Ballistic
RA: x2 Energy

variant 3: CP-11-C (available since 3049)
Equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 Gauss Rifle (RT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a C3 Master Unit (LT)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x1 Energy
LT: N/A
CT: x2 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x3 Ballistic
RA: x1 Energy

If "it makes more sense to put 'Mechs in for what roles they can play", then the Cyclops - with two variants carrying Command Consoles and one carrying a C3 Master Unit - would be (in the absence of the Marauder and BattleMaster) the quintessential command 'Mech.

'Twould be even more interesting if the Command Console were to receive its abilities under the advanced combat rules in Tactical Operations (such as a form of satellite uplink (which could allow for some form of advanced BattleGrid as well as the generation of an ECCM field, among other abilities; see the "Satellite Type Table" on pg. 195 of TacOps), access to remote sensors, and the ability to generate ghost targets).

Finally:

• "General Ariana Winston, Commanding Officer of the Eridani Light Horse between 3045 to 3060, piloted a modified Cyclops which featured a dual-cockpit for command and coordination purposes."
  
• "Captain William Cameron was Jaime Wolf's communications officer with Wolf's Dragoons, using a Cyclops to help coordinate the legendary mercenary unit. He was killed on Crossing during the Fourth Succession War."

If it's good enough for the CO of the Light Horse and the comms officer of the Dragoons' command lance, it's good enough for us, yes?

However, one must still take note of which variants would be available at this point.

Strum Wealh, on 11 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

CP-11-B... "Date Introduced: 3071"
It might be a while before we see that one...

[Karl Streiger]

Deskup, on 30 April 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Can anyone clear up on why everyone is:
1. so hyped about banshee and zeus? I ca understand clans, atlas, some other mechs(fafnir lol), but why these 2? what will they bring?
2.Why is annihilator so ignored? It has a nice look, seems very solid armored, there sure were those 3 variants(similar, yes, but not same) and gausszilla as well.

For your first question:
Style...Love...and Peace
For MWO: the Zeus isn't that interesting...a 80t having a ballistic in some versions.
(Leonidas, 6Y, 6S)
Same for Banshee in MWO terms it is just a smaller Atlas with a higher engine Cap...
but in Terms of MWO... only dual ballistic Assauls make any sense...like you said the Annhilitor is such a Mech....

But the Anihilator is lame...big...slow...and a weapon layout that will break balance even more - if it is possible.

[SgtMagor]

we could use a designated command mech(Cyclops), that can load all the electronics we could want. BAP,ECM, C3, IFF jammer (is this being considered?) , and if they add melee to the game along with collision it has 2 large hand actuators to pound mechs into submission

[Strum Wealh]

SgtMagor, on 30 April 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

we could use a designated command mech(Cyclops), that can load all the electronics we could want. BAP,ECM, C3, IFF jammer (is this being considered?) , and if they add melee to the game along with collision it has 2 large hand actuators to pound mechs into submission

Which is the point that Bishop and (more directly, at least on the EW/IW front) myself were making...

[Spheroid]

Does each mech have to have three C-bill versions? How about the Enforcer-4R, 4R Daniel and 5D? Also the Enforcer would have its lower arm actuators unlike the Blackjack. They should make the Daniel variant non-MC.

Edited by Spheroid, 30 April 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Deskup]

Thontor, on 30 April 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Banshee: its a 95 ton are and would fill a tonnage gap.

Zeus: iconic mech that lots of people love, very common at this point in the timeline.

Annihilator: we already have a 100 ton mech, and literally no one in the Inner Sphere besides the Wolf's Dragoons has any Annihilators at this point in the timeline.

Also, did you read the OP?

I did. The thing is:
Op says banshee has 3 horrible variants... and i kind of agree.
Zeus is a reseen, right? A lot of ppl said ressens are a no-go... But zeus is good?

Annigilator would screw the balance <- with that i actually probably agree. Still would root for ballistics.

[Bishop Steiner]

Thontor, on 30 April 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

The Banshee does have three &quot;horrible&quot; variants... Horrible in the fact that they have very few weapons in stock form, easily remedied by additional hardpoints. And that's only three variants out of at least 6 available in the current timeline.

No, the Zeus is not unseen/reseen

BANSHEE-S and it's 3050pretty update are both pretty beast. But the rest are either garbage or not available yet

[Cferre]

Karl Streiger, on 30 April 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

But the Anihilator is lame...big...slow...and a weapon layout that will break balance even more - if it is possible.

This is inevitable. They have to deal with this at some point.