

#3361
Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:57 PM
#3362
Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:16 PM
SgtMagor, on 28 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:
Part of the issue is that the 'Mech needs to have three available standard variants (not one-off and character-unique units that they'd use as Hero 'Mechs, such as Yen Lo Wang or Pretty Baby) in order for F2P (that is, c-bill only) players to unlock the Elite efficiencies.
Going back to an example from Closed Beta:
The Centurion started with three variants: the CN9-A, CN9-AL, and CN9-AH.
The CN9-AH was removed from MWO on October 30, 2012 (roundabouts the one-year anniversary of the public opening of the forums), apparently to allow the then-newly-released Yen Lo Wang to stand out more.
However, this created the situation where the only way to get three variants (and, thus, the Elite efficiencies) was to pay MC (and thus, real capital) to purchase the Hero 'Mech.
This was eventually resolved one week later by the release of the CN9-D on November 06, 2012.
Unless PGI wants to make Hero 'Mechs purchasable by c-bills or make Elite efficiencies accessible only to those who shell out for MC, unique variants (that is, potential Hero 'Mechs) can't be counted as among the three variants.
On top of that, the BattleTech timeline is being used to determine the availability of tech (thus, why we do not currently have IS versions of the other LB-X or Ultra ACs, the other sizes of Streak launchers, and so on) - and PGI has evidently decided that this also includes 'Mech variants (whose introduction dates are generally known via the BattleTech TROs and Catalyst Game Labs' Master Unit List).
Thus, we can conclude that "having three production-model variants available as of the current corresponding date in the progression of the BattleTech timeline" is one of the - if not the - primary selection criteria for inclusion in MWO.
As such, those 'Mechs that do not meet that criterion - even "popular" 'Mechs like the Bushwacker (third production variant in 3056), Devastator (third production variant in 3058), Mauler (third production variant in 3060), Nightstar (third production variant in 3065), or Uziel (third production variant in 3075) - are generally considered to be "out of the running" for exactly that reason.
#3363
Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:57 AM
Combined that with the role of the mech and it's standard technology is how they implement them.
#3364
Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:41 PM
#3365
Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:46 PM
POOTYTANGASAUR, on 28 April 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:
"Daddy, I want a squirrel. Get me one of those squirrels, I want one."
also, "barely makes the time"?
#3366
Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:56 PM
20 - Banshee
21 - UrbanMech (Hero Deputy Dawg)
22 - Vindicator
23 - Grasshopper
24 - Zeus (Hero Leonidas)
Edited by Maverick01, 29 April 2013 - 04:06 PM.
#3367
Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:54 PM
#3368
Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:09 AM
Maverick01, on 29 April 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:
20 - Banshee
21 - UrbanMech (Hero Deputy Dawg)
22 - Vindicator
23 - Grasshopper
24 - Zeus (Hero Leonidas)
SgtMagor, on 29 April 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:
With the Leonidas not appearing until 3056 & the X3 being a Dark Age 'Mech (that needs an XXL Engine (which doesn't come into being until 3055) and Improved Jump Jets (which don't come into being until 3069)), it seems unlikely that either would be a feasible option anytime soon.
A more likely Hero 'Mech for the Zeus, IMO, would be the Skokomish (described on pg. 160 of TRO 3039).
Quote
Edited by Strum Wealh, 30 April 2013 - 04:10 AM.
#3369
Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:26 AM
I realize not all the important goodies are in game yet, but I figure much like the Raven was in game pre-ECM (and we just didn't have the 3L yet) we could get a couple of the more basic versions in-game, plus a nice Hero version, and then when the C3 Computer shows, we can add the next 2 version.
A redesign to fit for MWO:

the B&W of the design

and the concept sketch

Some basics on the Variants:
CP-10-Z - The stock design, lightly armored for an Assault, it carries a massive 360 Engine, an Autocannon/20, LRM/10, SRM/4 and Medium Lasers in each arm.
CP-10-Q - The Q variant of the Cyclops attempts to keep enemies at range by removing the Autocannon/20 and replacing it with an additional LRM-10 and seven more tons of armor, making it very well protected.
CP-11-A - A common modification of the Cyclops that uses some rediscovered Star League technology, the 11-A removes the massive Autocannon/20 and replaces it with a Gauss Rifle which, although doing slightly less damage, has a much larger effective range.
CP-11-B - This version of the Cyclops carries a second Gauss Rifle, thirteen and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, and CASE. To make room for this equipment, engineers replaced the engine with a 270 rated model. Though this slows the Cyclops by 25%, the increased weaponry and armor protection compensates for the reduced speed.
CP-11-C - The 11-C is similar to the 11-A in that they carry an almost identical weapons payload. The only difference is that the 11-C has removed the LRM-10 launcher and replaced it with a C3 Computer, which allows it to share targeting data and coordinate C3 lances. An additional two tons of armor have been added to the design as well. This makes the 11-C a highly effective sniper and command 'Mech.
CP-11-C2 - Based on the 11-C variant, this Cyclops is a company command level machine that carries a pair of C3 Master Computers. To make room for these massive computers, the Gauss Rifle, its ammunition, and some armor were replaced by a single ER PPC. This leaves the Cyclops slightly undergunned for an assault 'Mech, but it shouldn't be engaging the enemy closely anyway.
I also freely admit, I partly want it in since it has not gotten any love in the last few MW titles. It would also be an ideal candidate for ECM, Command Console and possibly the largest stock number of module slots.
Thoughts?
#3372
Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:50 AM
1. so hyped about banshee and zeus? I ca understand clans, atlas, some other mechs(fafnir lol), but why these 2? what will they bring?
2.Why is annihilator so ignored? It has a nice look, seems very solid armored, there sure were those 3 variants(similar, yes, but not same) and gausszilla as well.
#3373
Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:00 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:
I realize not all the important goodies are in game yet, but I figure much like the Raven was in game pre-ECM (and we just didn't have the 3L yet) we could get a couple of the more basic versions in-game, plus a nice Hero version, and then when the C3 Computer shows, we can add the next 2 version.
A redesign to fit for MWO:

the B&W of the design

and the concept sketch

Some basics on the Variants:
CP-10-Z - The stock design, lightly armored for an Assault, it carries a massive 360 Engine, an Autocannon/20, LRM/10, SRM/4 and Medium Lasers in each arm.
CP-10-Q - The Q variant of the Cyclops attempts to keep enemies at range by removing the Autocannon/20 and replacing it with an additional LRM-10 and seven more tons of armor, making it very well protected.
CP-11-A - A common modification of the Cyclops that uses some rediscovered Star League technology, the 11-A removes the massive Autocannon/20 and replaces it with a Gauss Rifle which, although doing slightly less damage, has a much larger effective range.
CP-11-B - This version of the Cyclops carries a second Gauss Rifle, thirteen and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, and CASE. To make room for this equipment, engineers replaced the engine with a 270 rated model. Though this slows the Cyclops by 25%, the increased weaponry and armor protection compensates for the reduced speed.
CP-11-C - The 11-C is similar to the 11-A in that they carry an almost identical weapons payload. The only difference is that the 11-C has removed the LRM-10 launcher and replaced it with a C3 Computer, which allows it to share targeting data and coordinate C3 lances. An additional two tons of armor have been added to the design as well. This makes the 11-C a highly effective sniper and command 'Mech.
CP-11-C2 - Based on the 11-C variant, this Cyclops is a company command level machine that carries a pair of C3 Master Computers. To make room for these massive computers, the Gauss Rifle, its ammunition, and some armor were replaced by a single ER PPC. This leaves the Cyclops slightly undergunned for an assault 'Mech, but it shouldn't be engaging the enemy closely anyway.
I also freely admit, I partly want it in since it has not gotten any love in the last few MW titles. It would also be an ideal candidate for ECM, Command Console and possibly the largest stock number of module slots.
Thoughts?
I generally agree, as I posted a not-too-dissimilar idea myself (sans artwork suggestion).
Strum Wealh, on 11 January 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:
- The Cyclops is common and popular in-universe; "the Cyclops is a formidable weapon to be found in the battle lances of almost every `Mech regiment in the Successor States" and "the Cyclops has been a part of every major engagement in the Succession Wars, having proved itself in both close combat and as an efficient command control vehicle" (direct quotations from pg. 118 of the original TRO 3025).
- There are currently three 50-ton 'Mechs announced (and, with the Trebuchet's implementation slated for next month, there will be three 50-tonners in-game), so having the Cyclops at the same tonnage as the Highlander isn't too much of an issue (and would be less so if the Banshee is announced, which would have all weight brackets in the Assault class represented).
- As noted previously, the Cyclops with the variants listed (CP-10-Z-DC, CP-11-A-DC, and CP-11-C) stands to be the quintessential command 'Mech, especially if the Command Console and C3 Master Unit are implemented with capabilities from the advanced rules in Tactical Operations (as G-ECM was).
- The Cyclops has additional variants "in reserve", including the CP-10-Q (replaces the ballistic weapon with another LRM-10 and a Medium Laser, both in the RT) and the non-command variations of the CP-10-Z and the CP-11-A.

Your thoughts?
Strum Wealh, on 10 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:
Variant 1: CP-10-Z-DC (available since 2750)
equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 AC/20 (RT), x1 LRM-10 (LT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a Command Console (HD)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x1 Energy
LT: x2 Missile
CT: x2 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x1 Ballistic
RA: x1 Energy
Variant 2: CP-11-A-DC (available since 3045)
Equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 Gauss Rifle (RT), x1 LRM-10 (LT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a Command Console (HD)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x2 Energy
LT: x1 Missile
CT: x1 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x1 Ballistic
RA: x2 Energy
variant 3: CP-11-C (available since 3049)
Equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 Gauss Rifle (RT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a C3 Master Unit (LT)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x1 Energy
LT: N/A
CT: x2 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x3 Ballistic
RA: x1 Energy
If "it makes more sense to put 'Mechs in for what roles they can play", then the Cyclops - with two variants carrying Command Consoles and one carrying a C3 Master Unit - would be (in the absence of the Marauder and BattleMaster) the quintessential command 'Mech.
'Twould be even more interesting if the Command Console were to receive its abilities under the advanced combat rules in Tactical Operations (such as a form of satellite uplink (which could allow for some form of advanced BattleGrid as well as the generation of an ECCM field, among other abilities; see the "Satellite Type Table" on pg. 195 of TacOps), access to remote sensors, and the ability to generate ghost targets).
Finally:
- "General Ariana Winston, Commanding Officer of the Eridani Light Horse between 3045 to 3060, piloted a modified Cyclops which featured a dual-cockpit for command and coordination purposes."
- "Captain William Cameron was Jaime Wolf's communications officer with Wolf's Dragoons, using a Cyclops to help coordinate the legendary mercenary unit. He was killed on Crossing during the Fourth Succession War."

However, one must still take note of which variants would be available at this point.
Strum Wealh, on 11 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:
#3374
Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:03 AM
Deskup, on 30 April 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:
1. so hyped about banshee and zeus? I ca understand clans, atlas, some other mechs(fafnir lol), but why these 2? what will they bring?
2.Why is annihilator so ignored? It has a nice look, seems very solid armored, there sure were those 3 variants(similar, yes, but not same) and gausszilla as well.
For your first question:
Style...Love...and Peace
For MWO: the Zeus isn't that interesting...a 80t having a ballistic in some versions.
(Leonidas, 6Y, 6S)
Same for Banshee in MWO terms it is just a smaller Atlas with a higher engine Cap...
but in Terms of MWO... only dual ballistic Assauls make any sense...like you said the Annhilitor is such a Mech....
But the Anihilator is lame...big...slow...and a weapon layout that will break balance even more - if it is possible.
#3375
Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:29 AM

#3376
Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:37 AM
SgtMagor, on 30 April 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Which is the point that Bishop and (more directly, at least on the EW/IW front) myself were making...

#3377
Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:08 AM
Edited by Spheroid, 30 April 2013 - 08:10 AM.
#3378
Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:07 AM
Thontor, on 30 April 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:
Zeus: iconic mech that lots of people love, very common at this point in the timeline.
Annihilator: we already have a 100 ton mech, and literally no one in the Inner Sphere besides the Wolf's Dragoons has any Annihilators at this point in the timeline.
Also, did you read the OP?
I did. The thing is:
Op says banshee has 3 horrible variants... and i kind of agree.
Zeus is a reseen, right? A lot of ppl said ressens are a no-go... But zeus is good?
Annigilator would screw the balance <- with that i actually probably agree. Still would root for ballistics.
#3379
Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:01 AM
Thontor, on 30 April 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:
No, the Zeus is not unseen/reseen
BANSHEE-S and it's 3050pretty update are both pretty beast. But the rest are either garbage or not available yet
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