20517 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

well, this one is lacking missiles cuz Pariah didn't want any on his miffedkitty.

Oddly, the missile racks on my PHX mechs have not really been an issue, contrary to my early expectations. Maybe these guys won?t, either.

As for me, I was just concerned about the fuselage and weapon pod scales, as too many otherwise great TW renders have had tiny, or oddly shaped Cockpits, even the one Alex did for Alpha Strike, the canopy just feels off to me.

The Mad Kitty's missile pods are a lot further away from the torso than the "hunches" on various Phoenix mechs, though. They're completely up and off to the side, whereas our current mechs kind of "blend" the hunch in with the torso or slap it directly on top. The current pods are actually shieldable sometimes because of their lower placement, whereas the Timbie may have issues with this because they're so hiiiiiigh up.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 25 October 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

The Mad Kitty's missile pods are a lot further away from the torso than the "hunches" on various Phoenix mechs, though. They're completely up and off to the side, whereas our current mechs kind of "blend" the hunch in with the torso or slap it directly on top. The current pods are actually shieldable sometimes because of their lower placement, whereas the Timbie may have issues with this because they're so hiiiiiigh up.

while not canon, I figure the only real hope, aside from having their own hit boxes, would be to make them part of the arm. Lose an arm, not the end of the world. Then again, clan XLs won't be destroyed losing a torso either. Hope they emulate the heat burden for a damaged reactor.

[SgtMagor]

kewl kitty, but it looks nked without its missile racks oh forgot this only thing I like as much as an Atlas is a Kody!

Edited by SgtMagor, 25 October 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

while not canon, I figure the only real hope, aside from having their own hit boxes, would be to make them part of the arm. Lose an arm, not the end of the world. Then again, clan XLs won't be destroyed losing a torso either. Hope they emulate the heat burden for a damaged reactor.

Agreed on separate hitboxes or at the very least being part of the arms.


Clan XLs are indeed durable, but if the MWO Timbie body part proportions resemble the classic lore renditions, then the TW might have issues trying to protect its side torsos. As a Cent pilot yourself you know how large of an impact torso twisting has on survivability, and the problem with the Mad Gato is that it will have issues trying to protect a damaged side torso due to how high those pods are placed and how big they are likely to be. The high placement also means that they probably won't be good for shielding the CT.

Compared to Inner Sphere mechs it'll still probably be reasonably durable unless the CT is gigantic, but compared to other Clan heavies it might be outclassed by the Thor or Loki in terms of durability (assuming that PGI lets us modify Omnimech armor, otherwise the Hellbringer is dead in the water at Cicada-level armor without the speed or small size to compensate...).

Edited by FupDup, 25 October 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

I'm really hoping only the pod space is modifiable on the Omnis. Be one more balancing factor. But yeah, Hellbringer is DOA if that happens, and even MadDogs and Summoners are gonna hurt. But then, when you have UAC20s and SSRM6 and half size LRM racks, you can also lay down hurt alot faster than the other guy, too.

[Colddawg]

So for the Timber Wolf are we thinking possibly smaller launchers? It would fit the clan idiom of saving space/weight to have as minimal sized missile launchers as possible. I believe they'll be their own hitbox with a set amount of armor and internals-maybe 30 points armor 15 points internal each or so so you can't just one shot them.

Bishop mentioned about the cockpit. The Timber Wolf shouldn't have such a big cockpit area. Really, it borderlines two Catapult cockpits in size right now which is insanely huge.

The original art has the cockpit not being so big with the exception of the upward facing windows. That was translated into giant cockpits of the MW3 and MW4 versions (where MW4's cockpit hit box was only the interior of the lower center ferroglass piece).





All figurine models of the Timber Wolf have a minimalist sized cockpit.


As well as most artist renditions of the Timber Wolff.






So personally I hope the Timber Wolf looks like Alex's Alpha Strike cover.



And not like the MWLL versions which were just updated in looks from the MW4 version. >.>

Edited by Colddawg, 26 October 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Adridos]

Colddawg, on 26 October 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

So personally I hope the Timber Wolf looks like Alex's Alpha Strike cover.

Why not post the finished one?



You must remember you're trying to sell people on giving up the original look of a mech.
It's not easy even with complete pictures.

And as far as the cockpit goes, I wouldn't be so worried. After all, they dropped cockpit=cockpit hitbox since the Cataphract fiasco (remember how easy were they to shoot back then?).

[FireSlade]

I am betting that they are going to use a similar style to the Alpha Strike poster only with Alex's touch to it. As for the missile pods the sizing is off due to them being SRM6s. Now about the hitboxes I do not see it being much different than the Catapults and the "ears" will most likely be part of the side torsos since we would have no where to put the missiles otherwise and still run the 12 crit slot form that they are using. This would severely make the Timber Wolf a glass cannon unless PGI follows through with how Clan XLs work. And I am not sure how MW:LL will translate to MWO but if it is similar then I see the B variant being the most used over the others basically removing the missile pods for smaller profile ballistic pods.

[Bishop Steiner]

FireSlade, on 26 October 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

I am betting that they are going to use a similar style to the Alpha Strike poster only with Alex's touch to it. As for the missile pods the sizing is off due to them being SRM6s. Now about the hitboxes I do not see it being much different than the Catapults and the "ears" will most likely be part of the side torsos since we would have no where to put the missiles otherwise and still run the 12 crit slot form that they are using. This would severely make the Timber Wolf a glass cannon unless PGI follows through with how Clan XLs work. And I am not sure how MW:LL will translate to MWO but if it is similar then I see the B variant being the most used over the others basically removing the missile pods for smaller profile ballistic pods.

Alpha Strike was done by Alex, so that is a good bet.

[Bishop Steiner]

Colddawg, on 26 October 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

So for the Timber Wolf are we thinking possibly smaller launchers? It would fit the clan idiom of saving space/weight to have as minimal sized missile launchers as possible. I believe they'll be their own hitbox with a set amount of armor and internals-maybe 30 points armor 15 points internal each or so so you can't just one shot them.

Bishop mentioned about the cockpit. The Timber Wolf shouldn't have such a big cockpit area. Really, it borderlines two Catapult cockpits in size right now which is insanely huge.

The original art has the cockpit not being so big with the exception of the upward facing windows. That was translated into giant cockpits of the MW3 and MW4 versions (where MW4's cockpit hit box was only the interior of the lower center ferroglass piece).





All figurine models of the Timber Wolf have a minimalist sized cockpit.


As well as most artist renditions of the Timber Wolff.






So personally I hope the Timber Wolf looks like Alex's Alpha Strike cover.



And not like the MWLL versions which were just updated in looks from the MW4 version. >.>

I'll give you two simple reasons I disagree with your synopsis
1) It looks better this way
http://gobretail.com...es/fasa1640.jpg
2) Cockpit hit box, and actual cockpit have nothing in common. The Catapult cockpit is a single pane of it's canopy, as are the Cataphract, Victor, etc.

And on to your demonstrations, it is hard to take seriously considering the actual size of the canopy in each one
:




so........

[FireSlade]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Alpha Strike was done by Alex, so that is a good bet.

Ah ok, I was thinking that it was a different Alex that drew that.
　
　

Personally I like the figurine model the best in terms of design. The "ears" only stick slightly above the back of the torso making them only slightly easier to hit. Then again I like some of the aesthetics that the Alpha Strike has. Hopefully the scaling is close to the Catapult too since it is a longer mech than most to reduce it's height.

[Herodes]

I would probably get a stroke from all my laughter should the worshipped Mad Cat actually have a weakness, gasp! I am sure though that PGI will see to it that this won't happen. A pity actually. I'd love to see the Clans suffer before being annihilated.

[FireSlade]

Herodes, on 26 October 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I would probably get a stroke from all my laughter should the worshipped Mad Cat actually have a weakness, gasp! I am sure though that PGI will see to it that this won't happen. A pity actually. I'd love to see the Clans suffer before being annihilated.

I prefer that it would have a weakness; gives me more of a challenge and there would be less crying when people get killed while I use it. Though I cannot really say less crying; people are going to cry that clans are OP even if they overheat with every other shot and are fragile as glass just because people like to complain especially when it comes to the clans.

[Colddawg]

Bishop, are you sure you just don't like being argumentative? Yes the ferroglass is considered the "cockpit" but only the front glass is considered the head hitbox.

Fireslade, MW:LL's Alt Config B was completely wrong. The gauss is not in the missile pod location. Think Misery's gauss but in a Timber Wolf form or a gauss in one arm and the LPL in the other.

Quote

• Alt. Config. B Armed to engage an enemy at either short or long ranges, the B configuration is an attempt to use the Timber Wolf in a workhorse role. For long range combat, a (1) Gauss Rifle and an LRM-10 launcher gives the Timber Wolf B a powerful long range punch. For short to medium range engagements, a Large Pulse Laser is carried. Finally, for short ranges, a Small Pulse Laser and SRM-4 launcher are carried. Additionally, both of the missile launchers are linked to an Artemis IV Fire Control System to allow for greater missile accuracy. BV (1.0) = 2,012^[3], BV (2.0) = 2,224^[2][8]

If anything, let's just hope it doesn't turn out like this ugly thing.

[Bishop Steiner]

Colddawg, on 26 October 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Bishop, are you sure you just don't like being argumentative? Yes the ferroglass is considered the "cockpit" but only the front glass is considered the head hitbox.

argumentative? depends on your outlook I reckon. Strive for accuracy? Guilty as charged. So you saying THIS


is what the fuss is about?

[FireSlade]

Colddawg, on 26 October 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Fireslade, MW:LL's Alt Config B was completely wrong. The gauss is not in the missile pod location. Think Misery's gauss but in a Timber Wolf form or a gauss in one arm and the LPL in the other.

You are probably right, though it does not make much sense to mount a 12 ton cannon that shoots 200lb projectiles to a spot where it was only designed to hold a machine gun. Then again when has PGI followed any kind of sense when they decided that there would not be hard point size limitations. I would rather see MW:LL version but there is not really any room for 36 tons of pod space not including ammo or heatsinks; maybe some UAC10s would fit.

[Colddawg]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 October 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

argumentative? depends on your outlook I reckon. Strive for accuracy? Guilty as charged. So you saying THIS


is what the fuss is about?

On that drawing, because of its size, the center upper glass could be argued to be a part of the head hitbox.

Also, this is (highly resembles) the Timber Wolf III medium 'Mech.

Edited by Colddawg, 26 October 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[John MatriX82]

I just hope those missile pods will be separate as Catapult's arms..

[Strum Wealh]

John MatriX82, on 27 October 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

I just hope those missile pods will be separate as Catapult's arms..

The Catapult's missile pods are "separate" because that's where they're supposed to be - they are, and always have been, located in the 'Mech's arms rather than the side-torsi.
By contrast, the Mad Cat's missile launchers have always been in the side-torsi rather than the arms, with the arms always used to house direct-fire weapons.

Colddawg, on 26 October 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

MW:LL's Alt Config B was completely wrong. The gauss is not in the missile pod location. Think Misery's gauss but in a Timber Wolf form or a gauss in one arm and the LPL in the other.

Actually, the canonical (and, thus, "version that PGI is most likely to use") Mad Cat B's single Gauss Rifle is located in the Right Arm, with the LPL and SPL in the left arm, the Artemis-linked SRM-4 located in the Right Torso, and the Artemis-linked LRM-10 located in the Left Torso.
But, yes, the MWLL version is just all manner of wrong.

Colddawg, on 26 October 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

If anything, let's just hope it doesn't turn out like this ugly thing.

Personally, I would imagine that the missile pods could be vertically-lowered relative to the central fuselage, and the shoulder joints (that is, the arms' attachment points) could be moved outward (that is, away from the main body; that would/should also have the added advantage of helping to alleviate any arm/leg clipping issues).
In other words, it could look something like the LT/LA assembly of the MWO Orion attached to the side of a MWO Catapult body.

Bishop Steiner, on 26 October 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I'll give you two simple reasons I disagree with your synopsis
1) It looks better this way
http://gobretail.com...es/fasa1640.jpg
2) Cockpit hit box, and actual cockpit have nothing in common. The Catapult cockpit is a single pane of it's canopy, as are the Cataphract, Victor, etc.

And on to your demonstrations, it is hard to take seriously considering the actual size of the canopy in each one
:




so........

Personally, I would be unsurprised if the MWO Mad Cat got the same "traditional canopy" makeover that the Catapult (which also usually also had the same "front-and-center, glass-up-to-the-nose" look in BT) received.
(Likewise, I suspect that the Daishi could potentially end up with a recessed cockpit like that of the MWO Stalker.)

Thoughts?

[Bishop Steiner]

Colddawg, on 26 October 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

On that drawing, because of its size, the center upper glass could be argued to be a part of the head hitbox.

Also, this is (highly resembles) the Timber Wolf III medium 'Mech.

actually, it is the correct TimberWolf mk I, minus missile pods (it was a commission job). And considering the sizes of most PGI head hitboxes are a single panel, or PART of a single panel, (for instance the hitbox guide has been wrong on the catapult for nearly a year), I would say with some certainty, that only the forward panel would be the hit box.

Of much greater concern would be the prominent CT, unable to be protected by twisting, and the "hunches" the ST Missile Racks would create for easily hitting the STs.