20517 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Jack Gallows, on 08 October 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

What they need to do is just give Alex Iglesias all of the unseen/reseen and tell him to redesign them with input from the community, and make sure the powers that be at Catalyst Game Labs get in on it. New designs forever, no more "Ohgod can't put X mech in."

Generally agreed - Project Phoenix should have just retconned the appearances and been done with the issue forever, rather than trying to have its cake and eat it too with the "modern redesign, but the classics are still included too" reasoning.
Though, I would think it wiser to leave out the "...with input from the community..." part.

Relevant to the above, I believe, would be one particular statement from Mr. Iglesias himself (from the first Dev Interview):

Quote

MWO: Are there any Mechs that you are scared of rebooting?

AI: Probably the Timberwolf, I know that if I mess that one up, I will never hear the end of it, and will probably have to try to outrun a few pitchfork wielding mobs.

Also, his response to the MWO Community's reaction to the (rather radical) redesign of the Centurion:

flyingdebris, on 25 January 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

I understand the critiques but keep in mind guys

I don't just rub my hands together and think of how i can tear apart some of your childhoods

i first put some classical music on, pour myself some blood into a gold encrusted goblet, and laugh upon a throne of bones befor...i ...i mean i don't do that.

No, actually there are various reasons why the design looks the way it does.
Primary of which is that a lot of BT mech designs fall into the "humanoid with a cannon for an arm" category. And were i to stick too closely to the canon appearance, we could easily end up with a lot of mechs that would be hard to visually distinguish from one another at a distance. (The classic centurion head crest ...fin... sensor thingy, not exactly being something that would all that visible at longer ranges.) So to guard against the possibility, i had to make the mech as visually distinct as possible and push the proportions this way and that as well as add a few things here and there.

Given how popular and loved the Unseen are, how polarizing the Reseen are, and how some have reacted to major departures from the traditional designs of the past, I would not be surprised if Mr. Iglesias would be apprehensive with regard to rebooting the Unseen for many of the same reasons as the interview indicated that he would be apprehensive about doing so with the Timber Wolf.

So, if he's going to do it, he should - and may as well - be able to do it without undue interference from a community that has as many opinions as it has members... and is collectively unlikely to be accepting of anything that is far enough from the Unseen visual designs to not serve as blood-in-the-water for Harmony Gold's sharks.

Your thoughts?

[Razor 117c]

Can't wait for the :
1>Shadowcat (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shadow_Cat) even Shadowcat II will be great
2>Bushwacker (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bushwacker)
3>Annihilator (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Annihilator)
4>Madcat I and II

[Jack Gallows]

Strum Wealh, on 08 October 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

Generally agreed - Project Phoenix should have just retconned the appearances and been done with the issue forever, rather than trying to have its cake and eat it too with the "modern redesign, but the classics are still included too" reasoning.
Though, I would think it wiser to leave out the "...with input from the community..." part.

Your thoughts?

Actually, my meaning about input from the community (which I should have expanded on during that post,) would be a structured one. Alex would take a design, and what PGI would do would have voting opportunities. Alex would make multiple concept arts, or have them vote on smaller aspects of the design which Alex himself puts forward and allow the community a small measure of involvement in something everyone really feels passionate about.

It takes the bulk of the "it should look EXACTLY like this!" away from the community but still allows us a little bit of say. Alex still gets to redesign the Unseen, but the ball remains squarely in his court as he puts forth all modifications or ideas that people could vote on.

Quick example: Original Dragon Concept vs Modified Dragon Concept. The arm and cockpit were altered from the original concept art, from being just a cannon jutting straight armed from the machine to a jointed arm, and the cockpit was lifted a bit off the center torso to make it slightly bigger. Alex/PGI would put a vote "This or this arm style?" or "This or this cockpit style?" Kinda simplified, but that's the basic idea. Anything Alex doesn't want to leave to a vote, he doesn't include.

*Edit* Anyone excited for tomorrow's PC Gamer and/or if they're going to do website reveals?

Edited by Jack Gallows, 08 October 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[GuardDogg]

Quote

For those waiting for the new mech's announcements here are some clues.

The release dates of the mech's concept arts:

- ?/?/11: Atlas, Hunchback and Jenner.
- 23/11/11: Dragon
- ?/12/11: Catapult
- 25/01/12: Centurion
- 22/02/12: Commando
- 28/03/12: Awesome
- 25/04/12: Raven
- 09/05/12: Cicada
- 23/05/12: Cataphract
- 06/06/12: Stalker
- 20/06/12: Trebuchet
- 04/07/12: JagerMech (first person to figure out the [color="#ffa504"]day[/color])
- 18/07/12: Spider (what the frak?)
(long waiting...)
- 26/09/12: Flea (where is our assault?)
- 10?/10/12: medium mech? a heavy? or the long awaited 4th assault?*

*We believe the Highlander (a rare mech now) will not be announced soon, but it will be in the game eventually (maybe in the next years, as it resumes production). Here is an [color="#ffa504"]image [/color]of a Highlander clearly made for MWO by Alex Iglesias and supposedly scanned from the October's PC Game Magazine.

Those dates are wrong, messed up.

[Odanan]

Thontor, on 08 October 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

They look right to me, though in a confusing format of DD/MM/YY

as opposed to what I think most of us are used to: MM/DD/YY

I understand in US you are used to the MM/DD format. I'm not sure about the rest of the world though (at least not here where I live). I will fix that to make it less confusing.

[Belorion]

I would just use the long format to avoid confusion. ie Oct 5, 2012. There are lots of non-us folks around here. no need to us the US form, that would be equally confusing.

[GuardDogg]

Half of those mechs didn't make it. I would've enjoy piloting the spider. Would be something new to Battletech (MWO).

[Magik0012]

I understand all the legal broohah-hah, but I am still deeply rooted in the "Bring back the original Unseen."

If we somehow got them in MWO (looking as awesome as Alex makes mechs look, or as sexy as the images from Shimmering Sword) I would gladly double-up on my Legendary Founders donation. And also, I would squee like a little kid..

[Belorion]

VeeDog, on 08 October 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Half of those mechs didn't make it. I would've enjoy piloting the spider. Would be something new to Battletech (MWO).

EDIT: Reading comprehension failure. He said spider my mind went scorpion.

Edited by Belorion, 08 October 2012 - 05:41 PM.

[Odanan]

So, there WILL be an IS 55 tons mech...

Q: The 55 ton mech you are planing to add will be an IS? [Odanan]
A: We will be adding a 55 ton Inner Sphere Mech at some point, yes. [Garth]

Even so, I think it will take 4 years for us to have an IS 55 tons mech (the Bushwacker), because there is no 3025 and 3050 IS mech that would fit right now.

[Odanan]

This is enlightening:

Tweetchat.

Ask the Devs 20: Answers.

And BTW, I think the Highlander won't be "officially" announced any time soon. I will quote myself because I'm tired.

Odanan said:

It might be not the #17 mech. Heck, it could even not be the #37 mech. it could be just an awesome Iglesias' mech drawing that they put in the magazine with no plans to be added in the next years.

Quote

Q: Since we've all seen the picture, and the NDA is gone, can you guys comment on what Highlander variants might be added? [Norris J Packard]
A: I can only confirm the HGN 732, sadly. [Garth]

He can't confirm the other variants because they are not produced in the current timeline.
I doubt the devs will add a mech with 1 variant.

Edited by Odanan, 08 October 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Odanan, on 08 October 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

So, there WILL be an IS 55 tons mech...

Q: The 55 ton mech you are planing to add will be an IS? [Odanan]
A: We will be adding a 55 ton Inner Sphere Mech at some point, yes. [Garth]

Even so, I think it will take 4 years for us to have an IS 55 tons mech (the Bushwacker), because there is no 3025 and 3050 IS mech that would fit right now.

Honestly, questioning if it was an IS 'mech or not seemed to me like a non question. No offense Odanan. There's no reason to believe otherwise, the Clans aren't around yet and won't be for almost a year.

Dervish fits, even we've already got a missile heavy medium.

(And, we can always hope against hope that they pick up some Reseen, but it's such a slim hope as to not really be in consideration.)

Edited by Jack Gallows, 08 October 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[Black Mamba]

I still don't get why they can't do the unseens. PGI stated it themselves that Harmony Gold had nothing to do with the original Mechwarrior Reboot cancellation and it was merely a Microsoft IP restriction (no PS3) that caused publishers to back out. That warhammer design is brilliant.

[Jack Gallows]

Black Mamba, on 09 October 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

I still don't get why they can't do the unseens. PGI stated it themselves that Harmony Gold had nothing to do with the original Mechwarrior Reboot cancellation and it was merely a Microsoft IP restriction (no PS3) that caused publishers to back out. That warhammer design is brilliant.

I remember Brian or Russ trying to explain the insane complication that are the Unseen (it involved a huge mess of who owns what and why.) Needless to say, them staying away from the Unseen is a good idea. Even Catalyst Game Labs, who holds the licenses of Mechwarrior/Battletech, has declared any design dealing with Macross/Robotech to be Unseen and unusable (they just recently had an issue with this in the 25 Year Battletech anniversary book, too.) The only 'mech designs that are currently being used again in Battletech are those of the Reseen (anything not Macross,) because licensing agreements had been made with the companies that own them.

Unless there's a complete 100% redesign (or a deal is worked out with the license owners- Harmony Gold-), the Unseen will never be used again as they used to appear.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 09 October 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[Odanan]

Jack Gallows, on 08 October 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Honestly, questioning if it was an IS 'mech or not seemed to me like a non question. No offense Odanan. There's no reason to believe otherwise, the Clans aren't around yet and won't be for almost a year.

It was a useful question* even if answered in a dodging way. We still don't know if the IS 55 tons mech will show after of before the clans.
And about the clans, they are not so far away: we won't play with them so soon, but they should start to be announced in the next few months. (I don't believe there will be more than 20 IS mechs before the clanners)

*Certainly more than questions like "What's your favorite pizza crust?"

[Hidran]

The picture seems legit. But they better shrink that giant cockpit befor they release it.

[Odanan]

What worries me is the fact that there is only that picture. Couldn't anyone make a better scan or that page?

[Nephero]

I don't know if Im just old school or what. But I hope the developers dont think there can be TOO many mechas and miss out on all the classics that I myself have not heard mention: For example a big one, the Timber Wolf. I thought that would be the first mech to be introduced in this game, but I have heard no word or mention from either dev or fan. Not the Mad Dog, or the Summoner, Bulldog, Hell Bringer, War Hawk. I say the more mechs the better, that way no match up is ever the same players have infinite toys to play with. If so I would continue to invest in this game as I have already. MWO is special to me, there is nothing out there like it. Keep up the good work so far so good.

[Odanan]

Nephero, on 09 October 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

I don't know if Im just old school or what. But I hope the developers dont think there can be TOO many mechas and miss out on all the classics that I myself have not heard mention: For example a big one, the Timber Wolf. I thought that would be the first mech to be introduced in this game, but I have heard no word or mention from either dev or fan. Not the Mad Dog, or the Summoner, Bulldog, Hell Bringer, War Hawk. I say the more mechs the better, that way no match up is ever the same players have infinite toys to play with. If so I would continue to invest in this game as I have already. MWO is special to me, there is nothing out there like it. Keep up the good work so far so good.

We are still in 3049 in the game. Read this for more information about the clans.

PS: Timber Wolf and Mad Dog = next year.

PPS: Summoner, Hellbringer, Warhawk too. Yes, all the classic from MW2.

[Jack Gallows]

Odanan, on 09 October 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

It was a useful question* even if answered in a dodging way. We still don't know if the IS 55 tons mech will show after of before the clans.
And about the clans, they are not so far away: we won't play with them so soon, but they should start to be announced in the next few months. (I don't believe there will be more than 20 IS mechs before the clanners)

*Certainly more than questions like "What's your favorite pizza crust?"

Except, we have no reason to believe any clan information will hit the scene before MW:O launch, meaning they're sticking to IS info until such time. Focusing on one thing before the other, at least to us. I refuse to believe that in any way they were ever going "Oh, we'll add a 55 tonner alright! It just won't be IS! /mustache twirl" Won't see Clan 'mech concepts until after MW:O launch, and I think it's quite safe to assume that when we ask them Dev Questions they're probably giving us info that pertains to MW:O release. So when they say "55 ton 'mech is coming" I read that as..."55 ton mech is coming." Not as "Well, we'll get around to it eventually." I could be wrong, but generally 99% of the info they give us is like this.

Let's add a little bit to this idea. It's been said they have the first 32 'mechs planned out, now this could mean they have some ready for post launch, but I believe they've already got a real long list of possible 'mechs with a tentative release schedule for post MW:O launch that don't include the main line up. If we go by your idea of 20 IS 'mechs...we don't reach an even 32 if the decide to add all 16 of the initial Clan Invasion Omni-mechs. You'd have to cut out 6 'mechs, dropping the Clan only stable by a decent bit in weight/class coverage, and I don't think they're going to do that. Right now the Light 'mech category is the only one with 5 'mechs announced, each other needs 1 more (2 for the Assaults, but assuming Highlander makes it back down to 1,) to reach 5. Adding twelve more 'mechs wouldn't be that far fetched for our initial stable. You'd get 3 more 'mechs per weight class, which I think is needed. More diversity in selection and possible role combinations would really help the game.

So, no, I don't expect any Clan info anytime soon as I feel they're going to remain, (outwardly) focused on the Inner Sphere and the smooth launch of Community Warfare shortly after launch. When we start seeing Clan info, I expect it to be a big deluge of info that happens much much faster then how the current standard is working. It needs to be BAM, here are the Clan designs (maybe a few over 2-3 months with info on how to become a Clanner/whats going to happen,) but the implementation should be semi quick to replicate the pressure on the Inner Sphere.

*Edit* I mean this to be constructive, not as an attack on you or the Clans or anything. I'm VERY interested to see how PGI plans to implement then in Community Warfare and the game as a whole (forced Zellbrigen or no? So many interesting questions...) and so hyped to see what Alex can do with our favorite Clan 'mechs (that I'm going to salvage and beat Clanners with.) I have 100% faith in him, all his previous designs are spot on amazing.

Nephero, on 09 October 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

I don't know if Im just old school or what. But I hope the developers dont think there can be TOO many mechas and miss out on all the classics that I myself have not heard mention: For example a big one, the Timber Wolf. I thought that would be the first mech to be introduced in this game, but I have heard no word or mention from either dev or fan. Not the Mad Dog, or the Summoner, Bulldog, Hell Bringer, War Hawk. I say the more mechs the better, that way no match up is ever the same players have infinite toys to play with. If so I would continue to invest in this game as I have already. MWO is special to me, there is nothing out there like it. Keep up the good work so far so good.

Those are all Clan 'mechs, you're going to have to wait until the Clan Invasion to see any of these designs. Sorry =\

Edited by Jack Gallows, 09 October 2012 - 06:18 AM.