20517 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

FireSlade, on 06 December 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

• Marauder, I know it will never happen but a guy can hope plus since I am not a fan of the Atlas it would be nice to have a 75 tonner that was nothing like it.’

What?

[FireSlade]

cdlord, on 06 December 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

What?

I am not a big fan of the Orian. I do not know why, maybe it is the HPs, or maybe it is basically a faster Atlas but I have such a hard time liking it. Hence why I want something like the Marauder.

[Red squirrel]

FireSlade, on 06 December 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

I am not a big fan of the Orian. I do not know why, maybe it is the HPs, or maybe it is basically a faster Atlas but I have such a hard time liking it. Hence why I want something like the Marauder.

I like the Orion - still I want a Marauder!

[FireSlade]

Red squirrel, on 06 December 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

I like the Orion - still I want a Marauder!

Oh, do not get me wrong it is a good mech and seen some do very well with it but I have just never liked it. Back in my MW3 days I would even pass it up even though it was a similar replacement to my beloved Timber Wolf. The Marauder comes close to the Timber Wolf but we will never see it. We saw it with the contest that MoonUnitBeta hosted last month where some people posted to bash the concept of it saying that unless we got the unseen version they would not accept it. Personally I hate the unseen version since it was based on a anime instead of the Battletech world that it was made for (too flimsy/frail looking with no concept to scale and stresses brought on by physics and missiles and shells slamming into it). I look at the unseen as a place holder to give an idea for the look of it since they had very little artistic talent when they designed it.

[Odanan]

FireSlade, on 06 December 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Oh, do not get me wrong it is a good mech and seen some do very well with it but I have just never liked it. Back in my MW3 days I would even pass it up even though it was a similar replacement to my beloved Timber Wolf. The Marauder comes close to the Timber Wolf but we will never see it. We saw it with the contest that MoonUnitBeta hosted last month where some people posted to bash the concept of it saying that unless we got the unseen version they would not accept it. Personally I hate the unseen version since it was based on a anime instead of the Battletech world that it was made for (too flimsy/frail looking with no concept to scale and stresses brought on by physics and missiles and shells slamming into it). I look at the unseen as a place holder to give an idea for the look of it since they had very little artistic talent when they designed it.

I agree the Unseen Marauder looks out of place in Battletech. Too alien-like.

Some redesigns, however, are amazing (like Shimmering Sword's) and very plausible to MWO. I don't think it would have legal issues in MWO as it was already released as a book cover (XTRO: Succession Wars).

PS: Orion rules!

Edited by Odanan, 06 December 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 06 December 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Another all-variants-are-laser-boats mech? Nope.

Like the Wolfhound, that is part of what would make the 'Mech a controversial choice.
Additionally, most of the variants start with only three weapons (usually, one energy weapon in each of the LA, RA, and CT), which makes the Hermes much more flexible in terms of hardpoint inflation than the Wolfhound.
In addition, there are in-timeline variants that are stock-equipped with MASC (the HER-3S/3S1/3S2) and ECM (the HER-3S1).

Odanan, on 06 December 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Possible, as discussed before, but unlikely.

Why do you think the Javelin is so unlikely, in light of the previous conversation?

Odanan, on 06 December 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Who wants a Thorn in MWO?

Well, there are people that like the Locust and eagerly await the Flea, so it stands to reason that there exists a subset of MWO players that would want to have a Thorn.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 06 December 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Like the Wolfhound, that is part of what would make the 'Mech a controversial choice.
Additionally, most of the variants start with only three weapons (usually, one energy weapon in each of the LA, RA, and CT), which makes the Hermes much more flexible in terms of hardpoint inflation than the Wolfhound.
In addition, there are in-timeline variants that are stock-equipped with MASC (the HER-3S/3S1/3S2) and ECM (the HER-3S1).

MASC is not a good point in it's favor (considering the difficulty PGI is having to get it working)... not to mention the same all energy hardpoints just with different locations is not an idea of fun.

Strum Wealh, on 06 December 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Why do you think the Javelin is so unlikely, in light of the previous conversation?

The Javelin is awkward... if you give it too much extra hardpoints, it will fase out the Commando entirely. If you don't give it extra hardpoints, it will be scrap.

Let's look at the variants:
JVN-10N: 2 SRM6s (only 2 missile hardpoints is really bad - 4 missile hardpoint with 6 tubes would be OP)
JVN-10F: 4 medium lasers (very well... 4 energy hardpoints... Jenner is much better)
JVN-10P: 1 SRM6 and 2 SSRM2s (3 missile hardpoints... if the 10N gets 4 hardpoints, this should have 5: 2 of 6 tubes, 3 of 2 tubes)

After the Firestarter, it is actually a good candidate. But I think they would sell much more UrbanMechs instead (even if a worst mech).

Strum Wealh, on 06 December 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Well, there are people that like the Locust and eagerly await the Flea, so it stands to reason that there exists a subset of MWO players that would want to have a Thorn.

There might be a subset indeed, but that's a very obscure mech. Luckily not many people knows it...

PS: all right, will add the Javelin to the opening post.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 06 December 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

I agree the Unseen Marauder looks out of place in Battletech. Too alien-like.

Some redesigns, however, are amazing (like Shimmering Sword's) and very plausible to MWO. I don't think it would have legal issues in MWO as it was already released as a book cover (XTRO: Succession Wars).

PS: Orion rules!

while there are similarities, there are significant differences between the base Marauder SS did and the one that was released on the XTRO cover.

That said, it doe sshow that the hurdles are capable of being overcome, though I will engender much hate by saying I actually prefer the PHX redesign Marauder, with better execution (Like Alex did) over the original or SS's take, but that is because taste is subjective. The Unseen is essentially incapable of movement, and has an impossible center of gravity, while SS's jsut lose the aggressive feel I prefer for the original. I kinda like how Fireslade put it, that it was there as a roadmap for the IDEA of what a Marauder would be like. (I also like the basic concept of the Phoenix Tbolt from the TRO, though again, after Alex modified it, over the original)

What hurts for me is the lack of replacement ideas for the Warhammer, Archer, Rifleman, Crusader, Phoenix Hawk, that actually look equal to or better than the Unseens. At least the Battlemaster and Griffin appear to have had viable replacements finally, thanks to Alex. (Shad and Wolvie are still pretty boring though, IMO)

[Bishop Steiner]

well, IMO, out of the remaining chassis, in each weight group, the ones that have the most potential, make most sense would be:

Light: Firestarter.
Has the mass, speed, jjs, and hardpoints to succeed. Can do literally everything a Wolfhound could do, but better, since it has mixed hardpoint types, JJs, and one available version, the s1, even has ECM. Honestly it is the only sensible choice, which of course, is why it won't happen, lol. (6 versions available in 3050)

Medium: Vulcan (though good arguments for the Assassin, Dervish and Vindicator could be made)
50 and 55 tonners have already been heavily represented (hence me not promoting the Dervish, though it would be my first choice, barring a Phoenix Hawk). The other 45 tonners, IMO are simply too slow, and too much of the same role as the BJ, because of it. That leaves 40 tonners, and truly fast mediums are still under represented. The Assassin is faster than the Vulcan, but rarity makes me doubt it. Vulcan has good speed, JJs, unique silhouette, and good mix of hardpoints. (4 versions available)

Heavy: Guillotine
I'd prefer the Lancelot, but 60 tonners are not exactly overwhelming, nor are energy boats the best choice. Lots of hardpoints, JJs, and lack of 70 tonners beside the CTF are good reasons. (That and the available 75 tonners are underwhelming in this era) Grasshopper also makes sense for most of the same reasons, but missile in torso are better than missile in head. (5 versions available)

Assault: Banshee
Much as I would love a Thug, King Crab, Annihilator or well, a lot of mechs over it, the Banshee really is the only choice. The 95 ton brackett is not represented, and the Banshee is currently the only available chassis in it. Add to it the absolutely beastly hard points available, and the single ballistic mount location to assuage PGIs fear of Assault Class boom-Jagers, and it really is the perfect candidate. (6 versions available)

Thoughts?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 December 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[SgtMagor]

1-Firestarter with ECM yeah yu

2-Vulcan is good still would like a Dervish why not. (bad to the bone)
3-prefer a Ghopper but Guilo is ok.
4-Banshee nuff said, release this mech already, Atlas needs his LiL buddy!

Edited by SgtMagor, 06 December 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

but while not really needed, would not cry about this guy

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

well, IMO, out of the remaining chassis, in each weight group, the ones that have the most potential, make most sense would be:

Light: Firestarter.
Has the mass, speed, jjs, and hardpoints to succeed. Can do literally everything a Wolfhound could do, but better, since it has mixed hardpoint types, JJs, and one available version, the s1, even has ECM. Honestly it is the only sensible choice, which of course, is why it won't happen, lol. (6 versions available in 3050)

Medium: Vulcan (though good arguments for the Assassin, Dervish and Vindicator could be made)
50 and 55 tonners have already been heavily represented (hence me not promoting the Dervish, though it would be my first choice, barring a Phoenix Hawk). The other 45 tonners, IMO are simply too slow, and too much of the same role as the BJ, because of it. That leaves 40 tonners, and truly fast mediums are still under represented. The Assassin is faster than the Vulcan, but rarity makes me doubt it. Vulcan has good speed, JJs, unique silhouette, and good mix of hardpoints. (4 versions available)

Heavy: Guillotine
I'd prefer the Lancelot, but 60 tonners are not exactly overwhelming, nor are energy boats the best choice. Lots of hardpoints, JJs, and lack of 70 tonners beside the CTF are good reasons. (That and the available 75 tonners are underwhelming in this era) Grasshopper also makes sense for most of the same reasons, but missile in torso are better than missile in head. (5 versions available)

Assault: Banshee
Much as I would love a Thug, King Crab, Annihilator or well, a lot of mechs over it, the Banshee really is the only choice. The 95 ton brackett is not represented, and the Banshee is currently the only available chassis in it. Add to it the absolutely beastly hard points available, and the single ballistic mount location to assuage PGIs fear of Assault Class boom-Jagers, and it really is the perfect candidate. (6 versions available)

Thoughts?

This ^
(but don't you think we have already too much mediums?)

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

[Awesome Zeus]
but while not really needed, would not cry about this guy

A Zeus like that? I would cry of joy.

[Odanan]

Worked on some details to make it look more MWO-like.

EDIT: changed color canopy.

Edited by Odanan, 07 December 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

well, IMO, out of the remaining chassis, in each weight group, the ones that have the most potential, make most sense would be:

Light: Firestarter.
Has the mass, speed, jjs, and hardpoints to succeed. Can do literally everything a Wolfhound could do, but better, since it has mixed hardpoint types, JJs, and one available version, the s1, even has ECM. Honestly it is the only sensible choice, which of course, is why it won't happen, lol. (6 versions available in 3050)

Medium: Vulcan (though good arguments for the Assassin, Dervish and Vindicator could be made)
50 and 55 tonners have already been heavily represented (hence me not promoting the Dervish, though it would be my first choice, barring a Phoenix Hawk). The other 45 tonners, IMO are simply too slow, and too much of the same role as the BJ, because of it. That leaves 40 tonners, and truly fast mediums are still under represented. The Assassin is faster than the Vulcan, but rarity makes me doubt it. Vulcan has good speed, JJs, unique silhouette, and good mix of hardpoints. (4 versions available)

Heavy: Guillotine
I'd prefer the Lancelot, but 60 tonners are not exactly overwhelming, nor are energy boats the best choice. Lots of hardpoints, JJs, and lack of 70 tonners beside the CTF are good reasons. (That and the available 75 tonners are underwhelming in this era) Grasshopper also makes sense for most of the same reasons, but missile in torso are better than missile in head. (5 versions available)

Assault: Banshee
Much as I would love a Thug, King Crab, Annihilator or well, a lot of mechs over it, the Banshee really is the only choice. The 95 ton brackett is not represented, and the Banshee is currently the only available chassis in it. Add to it the absolutely beastly hard points available, and the single ballistic mount location to assuage PGIs fear of Assault Class boom-Jagers, and it really is the perfect candidate. (6 versions available)

Thoughts?

Largely agreed, though my personal preference would lean toward the Champion over the Guillotine, with the former having three variants: the CHP-1N, the CHP-1N2, and the CHP-2N.

Give one an extra ballistic hardpoint, give one an extra energy hardpoint, and give one an extra missile hardpoint; the combination of that, the distribution of hardpoints across the body (and thus unable to take agvantage of the greater firing arcs and faster tracking allowed by mounting weapons in actuated arms), and the geometry of the 'Mech (with both arms being empty and effectively vestigial) would keep the Champion sufficiently distinct from the Dragon and Quickdraw.

Example CHP-1N (original equipment layout viewable here):
LT: x2 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example CHP-1N2:
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x3 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Double Heat Sinks

Example CHP-2N (original equipment layout viewable here):
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 AC/10)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x2 missile (x1 SRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

As described in the above examples, the Champion has the potential to carry a greater number of weapons (in different E/B/M ratios) than the Dragon and the Quickdraw (the latter of which lacks any ballistics capability in any non-Hero variants), but has substantially less flexibility in bringing said weapons to bear (due to all of the weapons being torso-mounted) while also being able to shield itself very well is the "pontoons" are counted as part of the arms rather than the torso (or very poorly is the "pontoons" are counted as part of the side-torsi rather than the arms; either interpretation could be the case, depending on which piece(s) of artwork one is looking at and whether it shows the weapons to the inside of the pontoons or mounted in the pontoons themselves).

[Odanan]

The Champion has potential to look absolutely gorgeous. I guess it would be something like that in MWO.

However, it is of the same tonnage, speed and mix weapons loadout of the Dragon, so I would like to see other heavy mechs before it shows up. (hoping for the Lancelot)

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Worked on some details to make it look more MWO-like.

like the missiles, but not the canopy recolor.

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

(but don't you think we have already too much mediums?)

No. Mediums are supposed to be the most common mechs in Battletech. I think they should therefore be more of a focus.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 December 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 December 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

like the missiles, but not the canopy recolor.


No. Mediums are supposed to be the most common mechs in Battletech. I think they should therefore be more of a focus.

They could be the most common in the field, but not in number of chassis.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

They could be the most common in the field, but not in number of chassis.

generally speaking, the units with the highest number, have the most variety. Because there are so many manufacturers, so many roles, so many contracts, that is how it tends to be.

And it certainly won't encourage more players to try Mediums if they have more choices in Heavies or Assaults. ECM Cics, Shads and Cents prove people WILL drive Mediums if they are well done. We now need more options to bring down the drop weights.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 December 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

like the missiles, but not the canopy recolor.

Better now?

PS: don't forget the lasers and the PPC.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

[/size]
Better now?

PS: don't forget the lasers and the PPC.

better, still like my canopy more though. And the yeah, the weaponry is nice, but you might notice, the whole pic is intentionally somewhat blurred, so things like the focal rings didn't stand out. If you want to add it, cool, but they should be blur masked to match the rest of the pic.