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Ultimate Mech Discussion Thread

BattleMech Balance

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#7181 Strum Wealh

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 02:27 PM

View PostSgtMagor, on 15 February 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

going thru withdrawals because I haven't used a Summoner since Mw4. that was my go to mech, nothing can replace it. 2 gauss rifles, er large laser. that was the only weapons I ever used on it.Posted Image

Well, the Thor D (available since 2872) is guaranteed at least one ballistic hardpoint in each side-torso (from the Machine Guns mounted in those locations), and each the Prime, A, and C configs is guaranteed at least one ballistic hardpoint in the Left Arm and at least one energy hardpoint in the Right Arm.

The main problem with setting up such a loadout (30 tons for two Clan Gauss Rifles and one Clan ER Large Laser, if one assumes only one ton of ammo per Gauss Rifle) in MWO would be freeing up the tonnage - with the Engine tonnage locked (due to both type and rating being fixed), the first five Jump Jets & four additional Double Heat Sinks being fixed equipment (and thus unremovable), and the Internal Structure being locked as Standard materials, there would be only 22.5 tons of pod space by default, and the only way to get more free tonnage would be to remove some of the Thor's armor (with one needing to remove 7.5 of its starting 9.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor to accommodate the stated weapon load).

#7182 Strum Wealh

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 02:38 PM

Also, a post that I think is relevant to this thread... ;)

View PostStrum Wealh, on 15 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

View PostRebas Kradd, on 15 February 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:


Bet you right now that a "Clan Reinforcements package" a la Saber is in the works, containing the Firemoth, Shadow Cat, Mad Dog, and Gargoyle. :ph34r:

To expand a bit further: there are the other eight Original Clan OmniMechs (Dasher, Koshi, Dragonfly, Fenris, Vulture, Loki, Man O' War, and Gladiator), plus some newer-print Clan OmniMechs that would have enough configs/"variants" in active service within the Clans' militaries as of 3050/3051 (such as the Hankyu, Battle Cobra, Pouncer, Shadow Cat, Stooping Hawk, Nobori-nin, Crossbow, Cauldron-Born, and Kingfisher).

There are also a few - like the Fire Falcon, Phantom, Black Lanner, Linebacker, Night Gyr, and Turkina - that become available in 3052 (shortly-before, during, or shortly-after the Battle of Tukayyid), and the Grendel becomes available in 3053.

If they release the above at a rate of one 'Mech per month, they would be covered for the next two years.

Thoughts?

#7183 Odanan

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 02:54 PM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 15 February 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Also, a post that I think is relevant to this thread... ;)

Thoughts?

From the OP:

View PostOdanan, on 27 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Coming soon: Clan mechs.

The Clans arrive in June 17, 2014.

There are 16 clan onmimechs used in the beginning of the invasion (IS names / clan names):

Light:
  • Dasher / Fire Moth (20 tons)
  • Koshi / Mist Linx (25 tons)
  • Uller / Kit Fox (30 tons) -> already announced
  • Puma / Adder (35 tons) -> already announced
Medium: Heavy:
  • Vulture / Mad Dog (60 tons)
  • Loki / Hellbringer (65 tons)
  • Thor / Summoner (70 tons) -> already announced
  • Mad Cat / Timber Wolf (75 tons) -> already announced
Assault: Extra Clan Mechs:
Spoiler

Possibly even more clan mechs? (non-omni)
Spoiler


:ph34r:

Edited by Odanan, 15 February 2014 - 02:56 PM.


#7184 Odanan

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:00 PM

This:

View PostOdanan, on 27 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Soon in the game:

- Griffin, 55 tons medium mech (17 December for Phoenix Project, 18 February for C-Bills)
- Wolverine, 55 tons medium mech (17 December for Phoenix Project, 18 March for C-Bills)
- new Assault mech (March)
- new IS mechs? (April and May?)
- Uller, 30 tons light mech (17 June)
- Black Hawk, 50 tons medium mech (17 June for Clan Collection, July? for C-Bills)
- Thor, 70 tons heavy mech (17 June for Clan Collection, August? for C-Bills)
- Daishi, 100 tons assault mech (17 June for Clan Collection, September? for C-Bills)
- Puma, 35 tons light mech (17 June for Clan Collection, October? for C-Bills)
- Ryoken, 55 tons medium mech (17 June for Clan Collection, November? for C-Bills)
- Mad Cat, 75 tons heavy mech (17 June for Clan Collection, December? for C-Bills)
- Masakari, 85 tons assault mech (17 June for Clan Collection, January, 2015? for C-Bills)
- new Clan light omnimech (February, 2015?) - Koshi or Dasher
- new Clan medium omnimech (March, 2015?) - Dragonfly or Fenris
- new Clan heavy omnimech (April, 2015?) - Vulture or Loki
- new Clan assault omnimech (May, 2015?) - Man o'War or Gladiator
- new Clan light omnimech (June, 2015?) - the remaining original light omnimech
- new Clan medium omnimech (July, 2015?) - the remaining original medium omnimech
- new Clan heavy omnimech (August, 2015?) - the remaining original heavy omnimech
- new Clan assault omnimech (September, 2015?) - the remaining original assault omnimech
- (wild speculation) new, extra Clan light omnimech (October, 2015?) - Hankyu?
- (wild speculation) new, extra Clan medium omnimech (November, 2015?) - Shadow Cat?
- (wild speculation) new, extra Clan heavy omnimech (December, 2015?) - Cauldron Born?
- (wild speculation) new, extra Clan assault omnimech (January, 2016?) - Kingfisher?
- (Nostradamus-level speculation) 8 more Clan omnimechs (one per month, until September 2016)

...and hoping for extra mechs in each "Clan month".

#7185 stjobe

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:08 PM

View PostSteinar Bergstol, on 15 February 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Clanmechs? Bah! Bah, I say! Bah, and quite possibly humbug on top of it all! A proper mech is a barely functioning machine barely held together with hope, spit and bailingwire! It has seen centuries of combat and every component has been repaired or replaced at least once! And the cockpit should stink of the sweat, blod, tears, piss and fear left behind by dozens upon dozens of mechwarriors which piloted it before you! And here the clans come with... NEW mechs? NEW?!? Darn kids today with their fancy functioning mechfactories and production lines! Why, I oughta!

Sorry. My inner "contrary old man" just needed to be let out of his cage for a while. ;)

Quoted for epicness. And truth. But mostly for BattleTechness.

Well played sir, well played indeed.

#7186 FireSlade

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:54 PM

You forgot the Kodiak Odanan.

#7187 Odanan

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 04:34 PM

View PostFireSlade, on 15 February 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

You forgot the Kodiak Odanan.

I didn't!
Non-Omni, without 3 variants.

#7188 FireSlade

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 04:42 PM

View PostOdanan, on 15 February 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

I didn't!
Non-Omni, without 3 variants.

You are right. I could have sworn with the equipment on the Kodiak 4, that there was enough early 3050 variants.

#7189 Butane9000

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 08:14 PM

Part of me doesn't think they'll release clan mechs one at a time. It would stifle far to many players. Maybe do them 2 at a time.

#7190 Finestaut

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:21 PM

View PostButane9000, on 15 February 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Part of me doesn't think they'll release clan mechs one at a time. It would stifle far to many players. Maybe do them 2 at a time.


My money's on 4 being dropped on the cbill market in June, with 1 IS and 1 clan per month after.

#7191 Odanan

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:29 AM

View PostButane9000, on 15 February 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Part of me doesn't think they'll release clan mechs one at a time. It would stifle far to many players. Maybe do them 2 at a time.

View PostFinestaut, on 15 February 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:


My money's on 4 being dropped on the cbill market in June, with 1 IS and 1 clan per month after.

You might be right. They will need to "populate" the Clan teams...

#7192 John MatriX82

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:36 AM

View PostSgtMagor, on 15 February 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

going thru withdrawals because I haven't used a Summoner since Mw4. that was my go to mech, nothing can replace it. 2 gauss rifles, er large laser. that was the only weapons I ever used on it.

View PostBishop Steiner, on 15 February 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

ER PPC, Gauss and i believe 2 SSRM6 racks was my go to loadout. But was hard to be totally loyal because...well.... Victor


In MW4 i used dual LBX10s (double ammo each), dual IS Medium Lasers and 1 Clan ERLL (for longer maps, otherwise I dropped 1 DHS in favor of a IS LL), running with radar off/ECM on and went hunting solo snipers, LRM boats.. often wrecking havoc alone vs entire lances :angry:

I don't know how it will fare in MWO. Since you can't downgrade the engine, probably it will be difficult to allocate even a GR and an ER PPC on the prime :/

#7193 Graywar

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:03 AM

View PostSteinar Bergstol, on 15 February 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Clanmechs? Bah! Bah, I say! Bah, and quite possibly humbug on top of it all! A proper mech is a barely functioning machine barely held together with hope, spit and bailingwire! It has seen centuries of combat and every component has been repaired or replaced at least once! And the cockpit should stink of the sweat, blod, tears, piss and fear left behind by dozens upon dozens of mechwarriors which piloted it before you! And here the clans come with... NEW mechs? NEW?!? Darn kids today with their fancy functioning mechfactories and production lines! Why, I oughta!

Sorry. My inner "contrary old man" just needed to be let out of his cage for a while. :angry:

Best post ever. So true :ph34r:

#7194 SgtMagor

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:52 AM

give me my blood soaked, sweaty, banged up BANSHEE already :angry:

#7195 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:03 PM

View PostJohn MatriX82, on 16 February 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:


In MW4 i used dual LBX10s (double ammo each), dual IS Medium Lasers and 1 Clan ERLL (for longer maps, otherwise I dropped 1 DHS in favor of a IS LL), running with radar off/ECM on and went hunting solo snipers, LRM boats.. often wrecking havoc alone vs entire lances :lol:

I don't know how it will fare in MWO. Since you can't downgrade the engine, probably it will be difficult to allocate even a GR and an ER PPC on the prime :/

alt config A carries a gauss, srm6 and large pulse stock, don-t see the issue. 22.5 tons of pod space GR is 12, ERPPC is 6. of course you will need a skosh more ammo.......

#7196 AntiKorper

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:24 PM

Hello my name is AntiKorper

I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong thread, I am still fairly new to the whole forum thing.

I am a long time Atlas pilot / fan I used to run up to 3 full lances of special Atlases...
When I save up I am in the market for one, but my question is the way i want to load out my Atlas seems to be too much in this game vs the older ones... long story short, I do not fully understand the ferro fibrous / Endo steel upgrades? do they really take up that many hard points? seems like they should not at all, considering one modifies the structure to a new / lighter / stronger setup, second the armor is external? besides how can you save that much on weight and have more then half of your hard points full before any weapons...
or is there something I am missing / not understanding if so could some please help me clear this up?

In advance Many thanks!

#7197 SweetJackal

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:38 PM

View PostAntiKorper, on 16 February 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Hello my name is AntiKorper

I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong thread, I am still fairly new to the whole forum thing.

I am a long time Atlas pilot / fan I used to run up to 3 full lances of special Atlases...
When I save up I am in the market for one, but my question is the way i want to load out my Atlas seems to be too much in this game vs the older ones... long story short, I do not fully understand the ferro fibrous / Endo steel upgrades? do they really take up that many hard points? seems like they should not at all, considering one modifies the structure to a new / lighter / stronger setup, second the armor is external? besides how can you save that much on weight and have more then half of your hard points full before any weapons...
or is there something I am missing / not understanding if so could some please help me clear this up?

In advance Many thanks!

If you're a fan of previous Mechwarrior games then you likely used Clan Tech for your builds. Clan Endo and FF are flat out better than the IS counter parts, only taking 7 crit spaces each (for Clan) instead of the normal 14 (for IS). Both FF and Endo have both exchanged Crit Space for Tonnage.

Clan Tech was an arms race and invalidated IS tech entirely. PGI has stated for years now that Clan Tech would be avoiding that Arms Race in MWO and that Clan Tech would be taken in a balanced manner.

How all this will turn out is up in the air. Just for the time being there is no Clan Tech in the game.

#7198 AntiKorper

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 05:03 PM

View PostSuckyJack, on 16 February 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

If you're a fan of previous Mechwarrior games then you likely used Clan Tech for your builds. Clan Endo and FF are flat out better than the IS counter parts, only taking 7 crit spaces each (for Clan) instead of the normal 14 (for IS). Both FF and Endo have both exchanged Crit Space for Tonnage.

Clan Tech was an arms race and invalidated IS tech entirely. PGI has stated for years now that Clan Tech would be avoiding that Arms Race in MWO and that Clan Tech would be taken in a balanced manner.

How all this will turn out is up in the air. Just for the time being there is no Clan Tech in the game.


ok I understand about the lack of clan weapon tech np... but it's just the exhange between hard points vs weight is what I am not sure I fully agree with... and thanks for the help =)

#7199 FireSlade

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:07 PM

The balancing factor in Battletech was that if something was lighter then it would take up more space and cost more. This is why standard armor and structures is still worth having without everything being a race to get endo steel or FF armor.

#7200 Butane9000

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:46 PM

View PostAntiKorper, on 16 February 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Hello my name is AntiKorper

I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong thread, I am still fairly new to the whole forum thing.

I am a long time Atlas pilot / fan I used to run up to 3 full lances of special Atlases...
When I save up I am in the market for one, but my question is the way i want to load out my Atlas seems to be too much in this game vs the older ones... long story short, I do not fully understand the ferro fibrous / Endo steel upgrades? do they really take up that many hard points? seems like they should not at all, considering one modifies the structure to a new / lighter / stronger setup, second the armor is external? besides how can you save that much on weight and have more then half of your hard points full before any weapons...
or is there something I am missing / not understanding if so could some please help me clear this up?

In advance Many thanks!


In regards to weight savings Endo Steel is flat out better then Ferro-Fibrous. Both take up precious critical slots in assault mechs. So I wouldn't recommend them unless you have no recourse.

Ferro-Fibrous takes up critical slots due to the armor attachment system. Ferro-Fibrous armor should never be on option on an assault battlemech currently because the trade off is not worth the C-bills. Always opt for Endo as you always get your moneys worth.

Also as far as upgrades go. Always get Double Heat Sinks. They are outright better then singles. Any engines past 250 you should start looking to put extra heat sinks in the torsos and arms to soak up damage. As they will allow your weapons to last longer. If space is a factor for weapons put extra heat sinks in the engine slots.

Here's my recommendations on Atlas load outs to help you ease into the game:

AS7-D - In this build use your LRM15 and dual ER Large Laser for when the enemy is 500+ meters out. Use your AC10 on enemies up to 450-500 where it's most optimal. Only use the Medium Pulse Lasers when an enemy gets within 200m of you.

AS7-D-DC - This is one of those rare Ferro builds. Still not as good as the standard set up but it'll get the job done. A better medium to close range brawler. Stick with your team and act as a missile shield. Also gives you a speed boost over regular Atlases and remember to fire those streaks on chain fire to conserve ammunition.

AS7-K - The unusual Atlas. Most people opt for the RS variant. I believe this build is effective though a bit unconventional. Use the pulse lasers in close combat. Only use the LBX when an enemy is in close range 250-350 meters and is missing armor as it's great for internal crit damage. Your only long range is the LRM10 so use it's shots sparingly to pepper the enemy before you close the distance. You must exercise proper heat management with this build. Dual AMS for missile shielding.

AS7-RS - Alternate choice to the AS7-D. Better speed and not much difference in firepower. Gives you a much bigger punch at range so you can reach out and touch someone when you need to. Your Beagle Active Probe will shut down those pesky enemy lights ECM. However the Endo Steel upgrade leaves the lasers in your arms at the mercy of the enemy. So torso twist is a must to preserve what will be your main sources of damage.

By the way. These are by no means the go to Atlas builds. These are what I would pilot and gives you some options from the cookie cutter builds.





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