20517 replies to this topic

[Shalune]

Why is Vindicator crossed out? I was musing on this myself before I saw this thread and that was the mech I was thinking made the most sense. It has 3+ variants possible with current tech, is an old and common design, is 45 tons (not used yet), has JJ standard (currently lacking in medium weight), is energy-focused (currently lacking in medium weight,) and the rounded head and body could be easily made distinct from the centurion visually.

[Odanan]

Shalune, on 03 November 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Why is Vindicator crossed out? I was musing on this myself before I saw this thread and that was the mech I was thinking made the most sense. It has 3+ variants possible with current tech, is an old and common design, is 45 tons (not used yet), has JJ standard (currently lacking in medium weight), is energy-focused (currently lacking in medium weight,) and the rounded head and body could be easily made distinct from the centurion visually.

I crossed because 2 variants are identical, narrowing it down. It could be the Vindicator next, but I don't feel it.

[Odanan]

ManDaisy, on 03 November 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Champ kicks dragons but anyway you don't know what your talking about!

Sure, I don't know what I'm talking about, so let's see the numbers:

Dragon DRG-1C

LA 2e (1 medium laser)
LT 2e (1 medium laser)
CT 1m (1 LRM-10)
H -
RT -
RA 1b (1 AC/2)

Hardpoints: 4e, 1m, 1b
Tonnage: 60
Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor: 10 tons

------------------------------------------
Champion CHP-2N (the only 3025 variant - we are not in 3050 yet)

LA -
LT 1m, 2e (1 SRM6, 2 medium laser)
CT 2e (2 small laser)
H -
RT 1b (1 AC/10)
RA -

Hardpoints: 4e, 1m, 1b
Tonnage: 60
Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor: 8 tons

------------------------------------------

OK, the location of the hardpoints is different. And the Champion has 2 more starting lasers.
But do you really think they will add another 60 tons mech that is so similar to the Dragon? Wouldn't it be better if they add heavy mechs for another roles?

Edited by Odanan, 03 November 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Telthalion, on 02 November 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

You realize that Battletech has just over 500 unique canonical 'mech chassis, right?

So... It just gives us that much more to play with....

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Odanan, on 03 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Not all! It takes time and effort to add them, so every one counts.

Mechs that won't be in the game at all:

1- Mechs with less than 3 variants;
2- Mechs too uncommon (like the extinct SL designs) or faction restricted (like the Wolf Dragoons-only);
3- Quad (probably not, as suggested by answers of the devs), LAMs;
4- Mechs too similar in role of some mech already in;
Doing the math, for the current pace, we will have mechs for the next 41 months (one per month).
About the time it takes for each mech, the Cicada was announced in 09/may/2012 and added in the 31/oct/2012 update. So, it takes about 5 to 6 months to have a mech ready.

Odanan; I understand some of what your saying but....
1- Mechs with less than 3 variants = Why? It's my understanding that in constructing mechs there are no limits to the variants. unless we can't build our own weapon load outs and we are restricted to the stock mechs... in that case, I'm ********... and sorry for asking.
2- Mechs too uncommon (like the extinct SL designs) or faction restricted (like the Wolf Dragoons-only) = PGI can always limit them to say......1000 total and sell them like the hero mechs...
3- Quad (probably not, as suggested by answers of the devs), LAMs = Quads are in the game, history, fiction... they should not be singled out.... I see the reason for the LAM's.
4- Mechs too similar in role of some mech already in = this is mech bashing, what role? hehehe

Thontor, on 03 November 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Right now, they can do about one mech per month, they hope to get that to two mechs per month at some point
why does it take that long?

see below:

The incredibly detailed, beautifully illustrated, insanely intricate birth of a video game Mech

Thank you for pointing that out!!!

That's what I needed.

[Odanan]

Paul BlackJack Cady, on 03 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Odanan; I understand some of what your saying but....
1- Mechs with less than 3 variants = Why? It's my understanding that in constructing mechs there are no limits to the variants. unless we can't build our own weapon load outs and we are restricted to the stock mechs... in that case, I'm ********... and sorry for asking.
2- Mechs too uncommon (like the extinct SL designs) or faction restricted (like the Wolf Dragoons-only) = PGI can always limit them to say......1000 total and sell them like the hero mechs...
3- Quad (probably not, as suggested by answers of the devs), LAMs = Quads are in the game, history, fiction... they should not be singled out.... I see the reason for the LAM's.
4- Mechs too similar in role of some mech already in = this is mech bashing, what role? hehehe

1- 3 variants minimum because it's how the game works. You need to unlock all efficiencies for 3 variants of a mech to be able to unlock the efficiencies of the next level. Enter the game and go to the Pilot's tab to see what I'm talking about.

2- Limit the rare mechs to a small quantity? it would be possible, but will they do it? - I don't think so. You need to understand that making a "massive" multiplayer game is not that simple and implementing features like that demand a lot of work (think about "synchronizing issues").

3- Quads are in the lore. So are the tanks, VTOLs, battlearmors, aerospace fighters, hover crafts, etc. When planning Mechwarrior Online, looks like the devs chose to focus in (biped) Mech vs (biped) Mech combat - do this only, but do it well. They didn't say there is no possibility to ever add Quads, but the quads are very different of the bipeds (the way they move, the way they fall) - would you have so much trouble for a small bunch of freak show mechs?
LAMs... well, they are just game breaking.

4- Adding a mech takes time and effort. You say how much work just to reach the concept art. What about modeling (3D), texturing, animating and coding?
They will be picky.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Odanan, on 03 November 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

1- 3 variants minimum because it's how the game works. You need to unlock all efficiencies for 3 variants of a mech to be able to unlock the efficiencies of the next level. Enter the game and go to the Pilot's tab to see what I'm talking about.

2- Limit the rare mechs to a small quantity? it would be possible, but will they do it? - I don't think so. You need to understand that making a "massive" multiplayer game is not that simple and implementing features like that demand a lot of work (think about "synchronizing issues").

3- Quads are in the lore. So are the tanks, VTOLs, battlearmors, aerospace fighters, hover crafts, etc. When planning Mechwarrior Online, looks like the devs chose to focus in (biped) Mech vs (biped) Mech combat - do this only, but do it well. They didn't say there is no possibility to ever add Quads, but the quads are very different of the bipeds (the way they move, the way they fall) - would you have so much trouble for a small bunch of freak show mechs?
LAMs... well, they are just game breaking.

4- Adding a mech takes time and effort. You say how much work just to reach the concept art. What about modeling (3D), texturing, animating and coding?
They will be picky.

Thanks...

[Shalune]

Odanan, on 03 November 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

I crossed because 2 variants are identical, narrowing it down. It could be the Vindicator next, but I don't feel it.

Fair point. I could see it working though if they gave it the same default loadout but changed the hardpoints (cent and dragon default weapons aren't remarkably different from each other.)

I'll toss my hat in with the Blackjack then. It's a classic design with JJs. Because of what's available and announced so far I'm convinced the next announced mech will be medium with JJs standard and at least 1 energy centric build. Blackjack is an iconic design and fits all of these. It's also the one weight in medium that's not represented yet: 45

[Odanan]

Shalune, on 03 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Fair point. I could see it working though if they gave it the same default loadout but changed the hardpoints (cent and dragon default weapons aren't remarkably different from each other.)

I'll toss my hat in with the Blackjack then. It's a classic design with JJs. Because of what's available and announced so far I'm convinced the next announced mech will be medium with JJs standard and at least 1 energy centric build. Blackjack is an iconic design and fits all of these. It's also the one weight in medium that's not represented yet: 45

Exactly.

Now we just have to wait 4 more days...

[Odanan]

Vindicator vs Blackjack.

[Onyx Rain]

Odanan, on 03 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Not all! It takes time and effort to add them, so every one counts.

Mechs that won't be in the game at all:

1- Mechs with less than 3 variants;
2- Mechs too uncommon (like the extinct SL designs) or faction restricted (like the Wolf Dragoons-only);
3- Quad (probably not, as suggested by answers of the devs), LAMs;
4- Mechs too similar in role of some mech already in;
5- Maybe all the Unseen/Reseen;
6- Mechs that don't fit in the timeline (I suppose the game will stop to be updated in about 10 years max - so mechs from 3059 on will be left out).

Besides, the devs suggested that they have 32 IS mechs planned. Considering they will add at least 20 clan mechs (that's the clan omnimechs from 3050) and maybe more (as they hinted there will be a Hunchback IIC), we will have no less then 52 mechs in the game. Not to mention the clan omni mechs from 3055 and 3058.

Doing the math, for the current pace, we will have mechs for the next 41 months (one per month).

About the time it takes for each mech, the Cicada was announced in 09/may/2012 and added in the 31/oct/2012 update. So, it takes about 5 to 6 months to have a mech ready.

1. Probably right but you may see some of these as premium mechs and/or hero mechs.
2. Might be right, especially if it is extinct.... May be right about the faction restricted stuff too, but I really hope they ignore this and just go with the coolest mechs that are theoretically available in this time line that the community wants most...It is canonical enough IMO and just good business.
3. GRRR...You are probably right, and I am so sad about it. No mw game has done quads that I know of and I think they would be so cool, even if they weren't the most effective of all mechs...but I bet many would be surprised how good they could be if the devs did a half way decent job implementing them. I would pay a lot of good money for a Goliath or even a thunder stallion now, or a snow fox when clans come out.
4. Probably true, though I hope they make exceptions for really iconic/popular mechs.
5. Hope you are wrong
6. Probably right, though I think they could fudge this a bit and call them "prototypes" and not break with canon to much for many of us for mechs that are close to the time line...could even make them premium MC mechs. Maybe do 1 variant of them. But ya they'll probably spend development time on other mechs and premium content.

I really hope they speed up mech production....I'm already dying for a highlander (In late winter, spring...maybe summer? GRR)...and I'm guessing they will put the flea in before it...and that almost makes me want to quit/uninstall LOL

[Odanan]

Onyx Rain, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

1. Probably right but you may see some of these as premium mechs and/or hero mechs.

I believe all the "premium" mechs will be Hero Mechs = unique variants of mechs already in the game.

Onyx Rain, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

2. Might be right, especially if it is extinct.... May be right about the faction restricted stuff too, but I really hope they ignore this and just go with the coolest mechs that are theoretically available in this time line that the community wants most...It is canonical enough IMO and just good business.

They proved quite flexible by announcing the Highlander. That said, I'm starting to dream with my Mauler.

Onyx Rain, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

3. GRRR...You are probably right, and I am so sad about it. No mw game has done quads that I know of and I think they would be so cool, even if they weren't the most effective of all mechs...but I bet many would be surprised how good they could be if the devs did a half way decent job implementing them. I would pay a lot of good money for a Goliath or even a thunder stallion now, or a snow fox when clans come out.

The problem is reach the perfect balance. If quads are good, people will play only with them, making the game less "Mechwarrior-like". If they are bad, people won't play with them at all, and it simply wouldn't worth the trouble to add them.

Onyx Rain, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

4. Probably true, though I hope they make exceptions for really iconic/popular mechs.

Looks like they already did (Highlander, anyone?).

Onyx Rain, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

5. Hope you are wrong

We all hope. Come on, it isn't that hard to use the redesigns (Reseen) - some of them are actually better then the originals. In fact, Alex Iglesias is already redesigning - with flying colors - most of the mechs in the game (look at the Spider). All this drama around the subject makes me really think that it is a marketing strategy (not necessarily a successful one) and they will add the Reseen at some point. (though I think it was not necessary to wait so much)

Onyx Rain, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

6. Probably right, though I think they could fudge this a bit and call them "prototypes" and not break with canon to much for many of us for mechs that are close to the time line...could even make them premium MC mechs. Maybe do 1 variant of them. But ya they'll probably spend development time on other mechs and premium content.

I don't think (and hope so) they will ever create a variant "by PGI". And I certaily hope this will not become a World of Tanks, where 80% of the vehicles never saw production. But they will certainly use all barely-canonical/time-wise variants. Remember Highlander.

Onyx Rain, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

I really hope they speed up mech production....I'm already dying for a highlander (In late winter, spring...maybe summer? GRR)...and I'm guessing they will put the flea in before it...and that almost makes me want to quit/uninstall LOL

They are hiring. But I never saw vacant positions for animators, 3D and 2D artists. (though the member Hayden just got in and I hope he will help to speed up the good stuff)

[Jack Gallows]

Just as a quick side, they will NOT be adding 'mechs with less then 3 variants and adding a third as a "hero mech" like the Yen-Low-Wang for the third variant to unlock the pilot tree. Why? The answer is quite simple...that'd FORCE you to pay MC to play the game. So, don't bank on that idea. (It's a horrible one.) Also, no quads. Eww. The only one I like even remotely is the Barghest, and it still doesn't get me to like quads enough to want one in MW:O.

So, going off the assumption that they'll at least add equal number of 'mechs per weight class, not putting my light 'mech picks here. This is a list of what I'd be happy with if they put them in game, not how many they'll actually add for "launch."

Medium:

Wolverine (A man can hope! Even it's a vain hope!)
Dervish
Blackjack

Heavy:

Orion
Guillotine

Assault:

Zeus
Victor
Cyclops

[Odanan]

Jack Gallows, on 04 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Just as a quick side, they will NOT be adding 'mechs with less then 3 variants and adding a third as a "hero mech" like the Yen-Low-Wang for the third variant to unlock the pilot tree. Why? The answer is quite simple...that'd FORCE you to pay MC to play the game.

Agreed.

Jack Gallows, on 04 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Medium:

Wolverine (A man can hope! Even it's a vain hope!)
Dervish
Blackjack

Heavy:

Orion
Guillotine

Assault:

Zeus
Victor
Cyclops

Good pick of mechs!
The Wolverine is an excellent mech (probably the best IS medium in TT), but it doesn't look good at all (neither the Unseen neither the Reseen) - as the mater of fact almost all the Dougram mechs.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Hero Mech's

Victors = Victor
Theodores = Battlemaster
Jamies = Archer
Natashas = Warhammer
R Snords = Highlander
Phelans = Wolfhound

There's six months worth of mechs..

Get working!

[Jack Gallows]

Odanan, on 04 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Good pick of mechs!
The Wolverine is an excellent mech (probably the best IS medium in TT), but it doesn't look good at all (neither the Unseen neither the Reseen) - as the mater of fact almost all the Dougram mechs.

Yea, I just tossed it up there as my favorite pick if we happen to have a miracle, but I really doubt it. I also feel we REALLY could use a 55 ton 'mech in the medium stable versus another crowded 50 ton or adding another 45er. I don't honestly believe we'll see any Reseen, but I like to sometimes add them as a kind of wish list.

My only real gripes is that it leaves the medium field really bereft of more unique designs, because the Dervish on paper is basically an heavier Trenchbucket, while the Blackjack is a tiny Jagermech. Blackjack being a lighter alternative isn't that bad, and I suppose the Dervish being a bigger Treb isn't horrible, but I feel having a missile heavy medium be the main (only) 55 ton mech is rather limiting. It's not an "end of the world" scenario, but it does show how important the Reseen/Unseen are to the medium field.

Seriously though. WTB Hayden and Flying Debris complete redesigns of all Unseen/Reseen so we can forever move past all of this mess.

Paul BlackJack Cady, on 04 November 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Hero Mech's

Victors = Victor
Theodores = Battlemaster
Jamies = Archer
Natashas = Warhammer
R Snords = Highlander
Phelans = Wolfhound

There's six months worth of mechs..

Get working!

Snords Highlander is an option, but Teddy's Bmaster, Natasha's Warhammer, and Jamie's Archer are a no go due to being Reseen/Unseen (Bmaster is Reseen, Whammy and Archer are Unseen.) Phelan's Wolfhound is a stock wolfhound if I remember correctly before being destroyed and given a single Wolfhound IIC (which only one is ever made, btw,) so that's kind of a no go though that 'mech is awesome even stock. I don't see Victor's Victor getting in, but that's because I'm iffy on them adding another jump jet capable assault. I know it's on my list, but it's just the 'mechs I'd like to see, not necessarily what I think will actually be included early on, and again Victor's Victor wasn't modified.

If they do add either the Victor or Wolfhound (dear god the Wolfhound would be amazing to have,) then I'd consider them for Hero 'mechs, but not before they're announced. Speaking of which, if they do go with the Orion, it'd be quite the idea to make the hero 'mech based on that be Aleksandr Kerenky's Orion.

I want to crush some Clanners in that. Oh yes. I'll name it Irony, and there will be much rejoicing.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 04 November 2012 - 11:05 AM.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Jack Gallows, on 04 November 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Speaking of which, if they do go with the Orion, it'd be quite the idea to make the hero 'mech based on that be Aleksandr Kerenky's Orion.

I want to crush some Clanners in that. Oh yes. I'll name it Irony, and there will be much rejoicing.

Teddys first mech was the Orion...

[Comguard]

We have models per weight...

20: 1 (Flea)
25: 1 (Commando)
30: 1 (Spider)
35: 2 (Jenner, Raven)

Hm, ok, so no more lights.

Mediums: 4

40: 1 Cicada
45:
50: 3 (Hunchback, Cenutrion, Trebuchet)
55:

Ok, here we could use some variety. Blackjack sounds like a logical choice.

Heavy: 4

60: 1 (Dragon)
65: 2 (Catapult, Jägermech)
70: 1 (Cataphract)
75: 0

Hm. Orion?

Assault: 4
80: 1 (Awesome)
85: 1 (Stalker)
90: 1 (Highlander)
95: 0
100: 1 (Atlas)

Really, really difficult. But I guess it will be a 75-ton Mech. Orion.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Comguard, on 04 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

We have models per weight...

20: 1 (Flea)
25: 1 (Commando)
30: 1 (Spider)
35: 2 (Jenner, Raven)

Hm, ok, so no more lights.

Mediums: 4

40: 1 Cicada
45:
50: 3 (Hunchback, Cenutrion, Trebuchet)
55:

Ok, here we could use some variety. Blackjack sounds like a logical choice.

Heavy: 4

60: 1 (Dragon)
65: 2 (Catapult, Jägermech)
70: 1 (Cataphract)
75: 0

Hm. Orion?

Assault: 4
80: 1 (Awesome)
85: 1 (Stalker)
90: 1 (Highlander)
95: 0
100: 1 (Atlas)

Really, really difficult. But I guess it will be a 75-ton Mech. Orion.

um...don't you mean the 95-ton Banshee?

[Odanan]

Comguard, on 04 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

We have models per weight...

20: 1 (Flea)
25: 1 (Commando)
30: 1 (Spider)
35: 2 (Jenner, Raven)

Hm, ok, so no more lights.

Mediums: 4

40: 1 Cicada
45:
50: 3 (Hunchback, Cenutrion, Trebuchet)
55:

Ok, here we could use some variety. Blackjack sounds like a logical choice.

Heavy: 4

60: 1 (Dragon)
65: 2 (Catapult, Jägermech)
70: 1 (Cataphract)
75: 0

Hm. Orion?

Assault: 4
80: 1 (Awesome)
85: 1 (Stalker)
90: 1 (Highlander)
95: 0
100: 1 (Atlas)

Really, really difficult. But I guess it will be a 75-ton Mech. Orion.

Medium: I suppose there will be only 5 per class right now, so either the 45 or the 55 tons will be left out (personally, I'm pretty convinced the next medium will be a 45 tons).

Heavy: Orion FTW!

Assault: I know the 80 and 90 ton bracket was already covered, but I think the next Assault will be Zeus or Cyclops.

Paul BlackJack Cady, on 04 November 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

um...don't you mean the 95-ton Banshee?

The Banshee it's a mech that depends heavily in the melee and has some awful variants, MWO wise (including the primary)... I suppose it will be completely ignored.

Edited by Odanan, 04 November 2012 - 01:40 PM.