20517 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

Odanan, on 21 July 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Mechwarrior 2 was the first MW great success in video games and introduced a lot of fans (including me) to the Battletech universe.

You see, Mist Lynx, Viper and Ice Ferret did not appear in MW2 (or in the expansion), and are the less known "starter" Clan omnimechs.

I honestly think the reason they are "more popular" was because the chicken walkers looked more alien, so people latched on to that look as being more "Clanish"

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 21 July 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

In my dreams I see them making the T-Wolf's legs thinner when they realize they will look so bad in the Vulture.

More likely (IMO), the MWO Mad Cat's legs would remain as-is & appear the same way on the MWO Vulture, with the upper body of the Vulture being beefed-up to compensate - giving the MWO Vulture an appearance closer to some of the CCG images or the Dark Age rendition (minus the chin turret, of course) or the Vulture MK.III (minus the chin-mounts) or even the Mad Dog Mk.IV (again, minus the chin-mounts) than to the super-skinny classic TRO design.

[Odanan]

But the only chance of the Mad Dog be any good is it being skinny and with good hitboxes.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 21 July 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

But the only chance of the Mad Dog be any good is it being skinny and with good hitboxes.

The came can be said - and likely has been said - about every other 'Mech in the game.
Much like how every 'Mech - even including the likes of the Dragon Slayer and the Shadow Hawk - has been vehemently declared "DOA". And we see how that went...

So, what does the Vulture bring to the table?

• XL 300 Engine (base top speed of 81.0 kph, tweaked top speed of 89.1 kph)
  
• Standard Internal Structure
  
• Ferro-Fibrous Armor (starts at 8.50 tons; 1 crit in HD, 2 crits in LT, 2 crits in RT, 1 crit in LA, 1 crit in RA)
  
• 12 fixed DHS (all in Engine)
  
• Starts with 28 tons (46.7% of the maximum weight) for pod space & 40 free critical spaces (including all 4 leg slots & both CT slots)

Maxing out the armor still leaves 26 tons (43.3% of the maximum weight) free for weapons & equipment

The Vulture Prime natively provides the following:

• LA: x2 Energy
  
• LT: x1 Missile
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: x1 Missile
  
• RA: x2 Energy

The Vulture A natively provides the following:

• LA: x1 Ballistic
  
• LT: x3 Missile
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: x3 Missile
  
• RA: x1 Energy

The Vulture B natively provides the following:

• LA: x2 Energy
  
• LT: x1 Missile
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: x2 Missile
  
• RA: x3 Energy

The Vulture C natively provides the following:

• LA: x1 Ballistic
  
• LT: n/a
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: n/a
  
• RA: x1 Ballistic

The next variant, the Vulture D, is not available until 3054.

None of the variants natively carries any of AMS, ECM, or Jump Jets.

Also, I double-checked each of the original TRO 3050 (pgs. 28-29), TRO 3050R (pgs. 26-27), and TRO 3050U (pgs. 130-131) - all three indicate that the Vulture C's Gauss Rifles are mounted in the arms, not in the side-torsos as depicted in the imagery on page 06 of Combat Operations.

As far as its likely MWO appearance goes, I foresee the upper body reusing the CT + Head sections from the MWO Dragon & the legs from the MWO Mad Cat, with add-on side-torso sections similar to those of the Vulture Mk.III pictured in my previous post (the third image). The upper arms would probably be taken from the MWO Orion, with the lower arms being taken from the MWO Ryoken (with the hands removed, of course).

Thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 21 July 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[Cimarb]

Odanan, on 21 July 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

But the only chance of the Mad Dog be any good is it being skinny and with good hitboxes.

Like Strum said, it will be a Dragon, but a chicken walker version. From the front, it will have good hit boxes, but turn that torso and nothing on the map will miss hitting you!...

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 July 2014 - 04:09 AM, said:

that chart drives me nuts though. Thor is specifically noted for it's height, being "one of the tallest mechs" ever. and it's shorter than the Hellbringer, which is not noted for it's height at all?

Though, the actual statement regarding the Thor's height (directly from page 32 of the original TRO 3050) is, "The huge Thor, which stands at least a meter taller than most other 'Mechs, appears most often in a configuration remarkable for its lack of lasers."

The Thor isn't "one of the tallest 'Mechs ever"; it is merely about a meter taller than most of the 'Mechs currently fielded (in BattleTech).
And since most of the 'Mechs currently fielded (in BattleTech) are Medium 'Mechs that are on the order of 10-11 meters tall, the Thor's given height of 12.4 meters still fits the description actually given in the TRO - doubly-so when one also recalls that even the tallest 'Mechs (in BattleTech) are only 14 meters tall, a scant 1.6 meters taller than the Thor.

So, the next question is, how tall is the MWO Thor (that is, what is the in-engine/in-game height of the asset)?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 21 July 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 21 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Though, the actual statement regarding the Thor's height (directly from page 32 of the original TRO 3050) is, "The huge Thor, which stands at least a meter taller than most other 'Mechs, appears most often in a configuration remarkable for its lack of lasers."

The Thor isn't "one of the tallest 'Mechs ever"; it is merely about a meter taller than most of the 'Mechs currently fielded (in BattleTech).
And since most of the 'Mechs currently fielded (in BattleTech) are Medium 'Mechs that are on the order of 10-11 meters tall, the Thor's given height of 12.4 meters still fits the description actually given in the TRO - doubly-so when one also recalls that even the tallest 'Mechs (in BattleTech) are only 14 meters tall, a scant 1.6 meters taller than the Thor.

So, the next question is, how tall is the MWO Thor (that is, what is the in-engine/in-game height of the asset)?

huge (hyj)
adj. hug·er, hug·est
1. Of exceedingly great size, extent, or quantity. See Synonyms at enormous.
2. Of exceedingly great scope or nature: the huge influence of the Hellenic world.

I will let the word itself explain. For a mech to be considered noteworthy enough to be described as "huge" or "exceedingly large" (ex·ceed·ing·ly (k-sdng-l) adv. To an advanced or unusual degree; extremely.) to properly use the term, it would not be in reference to a smaller class of vehicle, but the correct context would be in regards to those in it's own class or order. Thus, it was noteworthy for being huge among Heavy Mechs.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 July 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

huge (hyj)
adj. hug·er, hug·est
1. Of exceedingly great size, extent, or quantity. See Synonyms at enormous.
2. Of exceedingly great scope or nature: the huge influence of the Hellenic world.

I will let the word itself explain. For a mech to be considered noteworthy enough to be described as "huge" or "exceedingly large" (ex·ceed·ing·ly (k-sdng-l) adv. To an advanced or unusual degree; extremely.) to properly use the term, it would not be in reference to a smaller class of vehicle, but the correct context would be in regards to those in it's own class or order. Thus, it was noteworthy for being huge among Heavy Mechs.

Its own class or order is "BattleMech" (which are already rather large machines), as opposed to some other class of 'Mech (e.g. AgroMech) or to conventional armor; the statement is that the Thor "stands at least a meter taller than most other 'Mechs", not that it "stands at least a meter taller than most other Heavy 'Mechs", and it is being compared to all 'Mechs being fielded and found to be taller than most of those.

Additionally, the average BattleMech is 11-12 meters tall, according to the former BT Line Developer.

Quote

Hello,

BattleMechs range in height from 8 to 14 meters. The average height of a BattleMech hovers around the 11-12 meter area.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
BattleTech
Catalyst Game Labs

So, if most 'Mechs are at the lower end of the given range of average 'Mech heights (e.g. around 11 to 11.4 meters tall), then the statement from the TRO regarding the Thor being about a meter taller than most 'Mechs (e.g. being about a meter taller than the average 'mech) is still both applicable and correct.

And even then, the Thor's 12.4 meters is not much shorter than the 14 meters of 'Mechs like the Atlas or Annihilator (large, upright humanoid 'Mechs), despite the latter two outmassing the Thor by almost half-again; it is a large 'Mech, especially when one considers the mass differential.
For reference & trivia, the 1.6 meter (5'3") difference between the Thor & the tallest 'Mechs is equal to the height of Victor Steiner-Davion (as well as each of each of Gandhi, Voltaire, Stalin, and Paul Simon).

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 21 July 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

Its own class or order is "BattleMech" (which are already rather large machines), as opposed to some other class of 'Mech (e.g. AgroMech) or to conventional armor; the statement is that the Thor "stands at least a meter taller than most other 'Mechs", not that it "stands at least a meter taller than most other Heavy 'Mechs", and it is being compared to all 'Mechs being fielded and found to be taller than most of those.

Additionally, the average BattleMech is 11-12 meters tall, according to the former BT Line Developer.

So, if most 'Mechs are at the lower end of the given range of average 'Mech heights (e.g. around 11 to 11.4 meters tall), then the statement from the TRO regarding the Thor being about a meter taller than most 'Mechs (e.g. being about a meter taller than the average 'mech) is still both applicable and correct.

And even then, the Thor's 12.4 meters is not much shorter than the 14 meters of 'Mechs like the Atlas or Annihilator (large, upright humanoid 'Mechs), despite the latter two outmassing the Thor by almost half-again; it is a large 'Mech, especially when one considers the mass differential.
For reference & trivia, the 1.6 meter (5'3") difference between the Thor & the tallest 'Mechs is equal to the height of Victor Steiner-Davion (as well as each of each of Gandhi, Voltaire, Stalin, and Paul Simon).

and again, the lighter Hellbringer, is somehow taller, yet that is not noteworthy, whereas the Summoners height is?

No offense brother man, but you need to unclench and just admit, something smells of old fish in that.

[SgtMagor]

thought the Summoner looked a little short compared to the other mechs, the other thing is if you look at its side profile the legs are bent so far forward that it appears to be almost kneeling. most of the other humanoid mechs seem to have that quirk too, except the Atlas which is just about standing straight like a person.

[Ovion]

OR, just maybe, you're putting too much thought into an offhand comment in some flavour text made by a writer a decade or two ago.

As to heights / scale in game:
The Atlas in-game model is set to 18M
This puts (juddging by eye) the Summoner at 2-3M shorter than

Edited by Ovion, 21 July 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[Odanan]

Ovion, on 21 July 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

Spoiler

I loved this image.
People might complain MWO is not the game they wanted/expected, but PGI really did a terrific job with the mechs.

PS: 1000 extra points for releasing the Clan mechs with their Clan names.

[Odanan]

BTW, PGI just needs now to round up the numbers in 9 IS mechs for each class:

3 more light mechs (Mongoose, Javelin, UrbanMech*)
2 more heavy mechs (Lancelot, Grasshopper/Guillotine)
2 more assault mechs (Mauler, Zeus**)

*Flea can suck an egg. It's just a slower Locust.
**or Cyclops, Hatamoto, Crockett... any would be great.

The Clanbuster Pack would come later, rounding 10 mechs for each class, with Hussar, Wyvern, Black Knight*** and King Crab). Hopefully, there will be melee implemented in the game at that time (giving IS "an edge").

***adding the Champion would be just too confusing, because of the champion mechs. Imagine a Champion champion mech. Besides, Champion = Dragon.

PS: yes, I left the Vindicator out.

[CDLord HHGD]

Wolfhound, Urbanmech
Hatchetman, Enforcer
Zeus, King Crab

And the rest of the clan mechs from TRO3050

Then I can die happy.

[SgtMagor]

heh, you forgot this

[Odanan]

cdlord, on 22 July 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Hatchetman, Enforcer

Hatchman has.. hatchet.
Enforcer has 1 variant.

[C E Dwyer]

Strum Wealh, on 06 July 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

So... Hero Wolverine proposal.

Thoughts?

Is a cool enough build, but won't there be a couple of standard wolverine and griffins before they hero the Pheonix mechs

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 22 July 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

[/size]
Hatchman has.. hatchet.
Enforcer has 1 variant.

but but but....

[MeiSooHaityu]

SgtMagor, on 22 July 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

heh, you forgot this

"The Clans...Powerful and ruthless they struck like lighting attacking everywhere at once! But they made one mistake, they attacked MY HOME PLANET!!!! Now in the spirit of the Star League, ancient enemies have united, and we are going to take back our galaxy." - Adam Steiner

P.S. I tried to quote that from memeory. It might be a bit different in reality lol.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 22 July 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

MeiSooHaityu, on 22 July 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

"The Clans...Powerful and ruthless they struck like lighting attacking everywhere at once! But they made one mistake, they attacked MY HOME PLANET!!!! Now in the spirit of the Star League, ancient enemies have united, and we are going to take back our galaxy." - Adam Steiner

P.S. I tried to quote that from memeory. It might be a bit different in reality lol.

Sounded pretty good to me... Without actually going to youtube and verifying word for word.... Is it bad I read it in his voice and imagined the openeing sequence and music at the same time?