20517 replies to this topic

[Vincent Lynch]

I think that PGI will probably eventually come up with their own chassis designs for those Mechs who don't have three chassis different enough by canon, like they do with the Hero Mechs already.
But also I think they will do those Mechs which do have 3 sufficiently differing variants by canon first.
So we will get a Mauler, at one point, but only after the Zeus, Victor, Charger, Banshee and Hatamoto. And maybe also Cyclops will precede it.

On the two Mechs per month thing, I think they will start with that when the Clans come and then do one of each per month.
So still, Trebuchet in February, JagerMech in march, Highlander in April, ... which means we will see the next assault Mech after the Highlander in August. If they keep to that weight class pattern, I mean.

Edit: but I also think they will come up with several Clan mechs at once, and that's probably the reason why they are not doing two Mechs per month yet.
Let's fantasize about getting one Omni in each weight class in March or April

Edited by Vincent Lynch, 11 January 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Butane9000]

Yea, sadly the Mauler won't be around for awhile. And as much as we could use the Annihilator it isn't happening.

One more reason the Banshee takes the lead over the Zeus? Speed.

Some of the Banshee variants have very few hard points, The Smallest being 2. Think about that. 95 tons total with 2 weapon hard points. Rock an ER PPC or Large Laser in one hard point and an AC20 in the other. Max out your engine size, get whatever ammo you might need (probably 4-5 tons) and roll face. I expect the Banshee with the biggest engine can get to what, 80 Kph minimum? It'd give us something we could use, a fast attack assault that won't die quickly.

Who knows, but I'm rooting for it.

Edit: Also, more then likely the new mech will be announced on the 16th.

Edited by Butane9000, 11 January 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[Odanan]

Butane9000, on 11 January 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

One more reason the Banshee takes the lead over the Zeus? Speed.

The Zeus can run at the same speed in the stock variants. And would run faster with engine upgrades.
Just saying...

[Norris J Packard]

Odanan, on 11 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

The Zeus can run at the same speed in the stock variants. And would run faster with engine upgrades.
Just saying...

I am going to keep saying this, but why do we need what is essentially a 5-ton heavier Orion that puts it at the bottom of it's respective weight-class? It's a horrid choice.

[Butane9000]

Thontor, on 11 January 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

95 ton mech with a 400 engine (the biggest engine made) would run 68.21 km/h (75.03 with Speed Tweak)

Sad face

[CutterWolf]

Sennin, on 10 January 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

You are not understanding what I am saying. The Banshee is 95 TONS in weight. You keep speaking as if it's 90 and then talk like the Highlander is 95. Let me help you with this...

Banshee...http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Banshee
Highlander...http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Highlander

Notice the Banshee has many different variants that perform different roles at different speeds. The Mauler has and does none of this.

I don't need your help. What I need is for you to read my post. The "GAP" were missing is a "duel ballistic assault mech" The Banshee is nothing but a small Atlas, it offers "nothing" new to the game. What you and many other here fail to understand is that PGI is not sticking to BT, TT or anything else. They have stated very plainly that, "its only a guide" that means they can create whatever they want at whatever time line the feel is right for "their" game. They have their own vision what the end state of this game which none of us here know. So when it comes down to "canon" or not for "MWO" they are the final authority not us.

[Strum Wealh]

So, I know that the opening post has already dismissed the Cyclops, but I'd like to put it forward for reconsideration and discussion.

Strum Wealh, on 10 January 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

"Dual Cockpit refits: The Cyclops is one of the Capellan Confederation's preferred 'Mechs to install Dual Cockpits. Standard refits usually install the Dual Cockpit on a CP-10-Z or CP-11-A, removing one ton of autocannon or gauss rifle ammunition, respectively."

Variant 1: CP-10-Z-DC (available since 2750)
equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 AC/20 (RT), x1 LRM-10 (LT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a Command Console (HD)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x1 Energy
LT: x2 Missile
CT: x2 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x1 Ballistic
RA: x1 Energy

Variant 2: CP-11-A-DC (available since 3045)
Equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 Gauss Rifle (RT), x1 LRM-10 (LT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a Command Console (HD)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x2 Energy
LT: x1 Missile
CT: x1 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x1 Ballistic
RA: x2 Energy

variant 3: CP-11-C (available since 3049)
Equipped with x2 MLas (RA, LA), x1 Gauss Rifle (RT), x1 SRM-4 (CT), and a C3 Master Unit (LT)
Potential Hardpoint Layout:
LA: x1 Energy
LT: N/A
CT: x2 Missile
HD: N/A
RT: x3 Ballistic
RA: x1 Energy

If "it makes more sense to put 'Mechs in for what roles they can play", then the Cyclops - with two variants carrying Command Consoles and one carrying a C3 Master Unit - would be (in the absence of the Marauder and BattleMaster) the quintessential command 'Mech.

'Twould be even more interesting if the Command Console were to receive its abilities under the advanced combat rules in Tactical Operations (such as a form of satellite uplink (which could allow for some form of advanced BattleGrid as well as the generation of an ECCM field, among other abilities; see the "Satellite Type Table" on pg. 195 of TacOps), access to remote sensors, and the ability to generate ghost targets).

Finally:

• "General Ariana Winston, Commanding Officer of the Eridani Light Horse between 3045 to 3060, piloted a modified Cyclops which featured a dual-cockpit for command and coordination purposes."
  
• "Captain William Cameron was Jaime Wolf's communications officer with Wolf's Dragoons, using a Cyclops to help coordinate the legendary mercenary unit. He was killed on Crossing during the Fourth Succession War."

If it's good enough for the CO of the Light Horse and the comms officer of the Dragoons' command lance, it's good enough for us, yes?

Your thoughts?

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 11 January 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

So, I know that the opening post has already dismissed the Cyclops, but I'd like to put it forward for reconsideration and discussion.

Your thoughts?

If you read some early posts of mine, I was calling the Cyclops for Assault a long time ago. With the announcement of the Highlander, I just gave up...

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 11 January 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

If you read some early posts of mine, I was calling the Cyclops for Assault a long time ago. With the announcement of the Highlander, I just gave up...

Admittedly, I'm not expecting the Cyclops to be BattleMech 20, but I don't think it's in the weakest of positions as far as potential selections for the next round or two of IS 'Mechs.

• The Cyclops is common and popular in-universe; "the Cyclops is a formidable weapon to be found in the battle lances of almost every `Mech regiment in the Successor States" and "the Cyclops has been a part of every major engagement in the Succession Wars, having proved itself in both close combat and as an efficient command control vehicle" (direct quotations from pg. 118 of the original TRO 3025).
  
• There are currently three 50-ton 'Mechs announced (and, with the Trebuchet's implementation slated for next month, there will be three 50-tonners in-game), so having the Cyclops at the same tonnage as the Highlander isn't too much of an issue (and would be less so if the Banshee is announced, which would have all weight brackets in the Assault class represented).
  
• As noted previously, the Cyclops with the variants listed (CP-10-Z-DC, CP-11-A-DC, and CP-11-C) stands to be the quintessential command 'Mech, especially if the Command Console and C3 Master Unit are implemented with capabilities from the advanced rules in Tactical Operations (as G-ECM was).
  
• The Cyclops has additional variants "in reserve", including the CP-10-Q (replaces the ballistic weapon with another LRM-10 and a Medium Laser, both in the RT) and the non-command variations of the CP-10-Z and the CP-11-A.

With a ~6-month turnaround from announcement to implementation, even putting the Cyclops in the next round of IS 'Mechs would likely mean that it wouldn't be expected to be implemented until around July or August, at the earliest - plenty of time for the Devs to implement and test the systems and capabilities needed to make it the great command 'Mech that we'll need in order to dispense with the Clanner scourge.

Your thoughts?

[Odanan]

My thoughts are: CP-11-B (dual Gauss Cyclops). How needs a Mauler?

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 11 January 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

My thoughts are: CP-11-B (dual Gauss Cyclops). How needs a Mauler?

CP-11-B... "Date Introduced: 3071"
It might be a while before we see that one...

[Sennin]

Butane9000, on 11 January 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Sad face

Don't be so down man. Torso twist speed is directly related to engine size. Can you imagine moving 75kph and cutting turns like a knife all while mounting ER-PPC's, a Gauss Rifle, Medium Pulse Lasers and AMS in a 95 Ton Death Machine?

[Sennin]

CutterWolf, on 11 January 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I don't need your help. What I need is for you to read my post. The "GAP" were missing is a "duel ballistic assault mech" The Banshee is nothing but a small Atlas, it offers "nothing" new to the game. What you and many other here fail to understand is that PGI is not sticking to BT, TT or anything else. They have stated very plainly that, "its only a guide" that means they can create whatever they want at whatever time line the feel is right for "their" game. They have their own vision what the end state of this game which none of us here know. So when it comes down to "canon" or not for "MWO" they are the final authority not us.

I assure you if PGI wanted a "duel ballistic assault mech" in the game they would have already done so with this...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devastator

[CutterWolf]

Sennin, on 11 January 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

I assure you if PGI wanted a "duel ballistic assault mech" in the game they would have already done so with this...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devastator

Brother, I would love it if they would put that in put it seems like they are afraid to add any more 100 ton mechs

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Sennin, on 11 January 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Don't be so down man. Torso twist speed is directly related to engine size. Can you imagine moving 75kph and cutting turns like a knife all while mounting ER-PPC's, a Gauss Rifle, Medium Pulse Lasers and AMS in a 95 Ton Death Machine?

That's really agile for an 95 ton assault mech, but it would make the Banshee unique!
It would be much more maneuverable than a stock HBK-4G.

[Shi no Kami]

Sennin, on 11 January 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

I assure you if PGI wanted a "duel ballistic assault mech" in the game they would have already done so with this...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devastator

All I can say is "GIMME GIMME!"
One of my personal favorite TT mechs, and not just for the kickin load out... the model is very nice as well.

I'm still thinking that the Banshee will be the next assault class mech. Though to be honest, I wish we had more mediums - those have always been the true backbone / workhorse of battletech. Decent Speed, decent armor, decent weapons. Not stellar at anything, but solid all-rounders.

[WidowMaker91]

we need a Clan POV instead of this IS crap....bring on the clan mechs please.....

[Strum Wealh]

CutterWolf, on 11 January 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I don't need your help. What I need is for you to read my post. The "GAP" were missing is a "duel ballistic assault mech" The Banshee is nothing but a small Atlas, it offers "nothing" new to the game. What you and many other here fail to understand is that PGI is not sticking to BT, TT or anything else. They have stated very plainly that, "its only a guide" that means they can create whatever they want at whatever time line the feel is right for "their" game. They have their own vision what the end state of this game which none of us here know. So when it comes down to "canon" or not for "MWO" they are the final authority not us.

Firstly, I suspect that the word you're looking for is "dual" ("consisting of two parts or elements, or having two like parts"), rather than "duel" ("a combat between two persons; specifically, a formal combat with weapons fought between two persons in the presence of witnesses, intended to settle a quarrel or point of honor").
That is, you wish to describe a "dual-ballistics Assault 'Mech" - an Assault 'Mech mounting two ballistic weapons (or two sets of ballistic weapons), generally in a bilaterally-symmetrical configuration ("a basic body plan in which the left and right sides can be divided into approximate mirror images of each other").

Secondly, all of the traditional ballistics-heavy 'Mechs have one or more issues that are likely to delay or prevent their implementation in the game - a point discussed some time ago, in this very thread.

Strum Wealh, on 30 December 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

The King Crab has the AC-splitting issue, which is likely to prevent it being implemented unless and until the MechLab allows AC/20s to be split across locations.

The Annihilator effectively does not exist outside of the Wolf's Dragoons; the Clans stopped building them before the beginning of their "Golden Century" (which began with Nick Kerensky's death in 2834), and the IS (outside of the Dragoons) never had the facilities to produce them (the SLDF took the blueprints with them on their Exodus before production began).

All of the other "typical" assault-class ballistic boats (e.g. Mauler, Pillager, Nightstar, Thunder Hawk, etc) don't get a third variant (with each 'Mech needing three variants to work in MWO's XP/unlock system) until the 3060s at the earliest, and/or are extinct until the mid-3050s (e.g. after the Clans are defeated by ComStar at Tukayyid).

The "best bet", as it were, for a makeshift assault-class ballistics boat is the 80-ton Victor - specifically the VTR-9A and VTR-9A1.
The VTR-9A1 carries its AC/20 in the right arm, and adds a Machine Gun in each leg (which, for MWO, would likely be moved up to the respective side-torsos) - for a total of three ballistic hardpoints (in addition to 2 MLas, 1 SRM-4, and a quartet of Jump Jets).
The VTR-9A carries its AC/20 in the right arm, and adds a Machine Gun in the left-torso, for a total of two ballistic hardpoints (in addition to 2 MLas, 2 Flamers, 1 SRM-4, and a quartet of Jump Jets).

If the -9A1 were implemented as above, I could see it being modified into a "mini Thunder Hawk"...

[Odanan]

The Birdeater, on 12 January 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

That's really agile for an 95 ton assault mech, but it would make the Banshee unique!
It would be much more maneuverable than a stock HBK-4G.

I don't know if you can make the Banshee that fast, because of engine cap.

Zeus, Hatamoto-Chi, Cyclops and Banshee all have the same stock speed. The smaller the mech, the faster it can be. Personally, I would prefer the Hatamoto-Chi, just for the dual ballistics variant (HTM-27W).

If you guys want a very fast assault mech, you start wishing for the Charger. With some serious mechlab job, it could be a good mech. And it has plenty of variants (including jumping ones).

Excluding the C3 variant, the Charger variants should be something like this:

Charger CGR-1A1 (86.4 km/h) [energy quirks?]

LA 1e (small laser)
LT 1e (small laser)
CT
H 1e (small laser)
RT 1e (small laser)
RA 1e [+2e?] (small laser)

--------------------------
Charger CGR-1A5 (64.8 km/h) [missile and ballistic quirks?]

LA
LT 2m (2x SRM6)
CT 1e (medium laser)
H 1e (small laser)
RT 1b [+2b?] (AC/20)
RA

--------------------------
Charger CGR-1A9 (64.8 km/h, jump) [medium laser and LRM quirks?]

LA 1e (medium laser)
LT 1e (medium laser)
CT
H 1e (small laser)
RT 1e, 1m [+1m?] (medium laser, LRM20)
RA 1e (medium laser)

--------------------------
Charger CGR-1L (86.4 km/h) [medium laser quirks?]

LA
LT 1e [+1e?] (medium laser)
CT
H
RT 1e [+1e?] (medium laser)
RA 1e [+2e?] (large laser)

--------------------------
Charger CGR-SB (54 km/h) [large laser quirks?]

LA 1e [+1e?] (large laser)
LT 1e (large laser)
CT
H 1e (medium laser)
RT 1e (large laser)
RA 1e [+1e?] (large laser)

--------------------------
Charger CGR-3K (86.4 km/h, jump, DHS, XL engine) [medium pulse laser and missile quirks?]

LA 1e (medium pulse laser)
LT 1e (medium pulse laser)
CT
H
RT 1e, 1m [+2m?] (medium pulse laser, LRM20)
RA 1e (medium pulse laser)

You know what? I kind of like what I see here.

EDIT: possible hero mech - Terry Ford's Number Seven.

Edited by Odanan, 23 December 2015 - 07:48 AM.

[Odanan]

WidowMaker91, on 12 January 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

we need a Clan POV instead of this IS crap....bring on the clan mechs please.....

Cheat mode on, right?

Strum Wealh, on 11 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

CP-11-B... "Date Introduced: 3071"
It might be a while before we see that one...

I was afraid of something like that...
(any remaining sympathy for the Cyclops gone)