20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

ShadowbaneX, on 26 March 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Could they even really do quad-mechs with the current controls? There's no torso to twist so I suppose the mouse could be remapped to turn left & right. Then the turn keys would become strafe keys, but I don't think that would react well to the throttle controls we have. Sounds...well about as easy to code as comfortable as the ride is.

There are already too few quad mechs for they implementing a whole new control system...
But if you consider the chassis with 3 time-wise variants, I think there is no quad mech to add to the game at all.

[Cimarb]

ShadowbaneX, on 26 March 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Could they even really do quad-mechs with the current controls? There's no torso to twist so I suppose the mouse could be remapped to turn left & right. Then the turn keys would become strafe keys, but I don't think that would react well to the throttle controls we have. Sounds...well about as easy to code as comfortable as the ride is.

Most quad mechs have some sort of a turret, I believe, so it would control like a standard tank for the most part. The only difference would be strafing, which could be done just by adding two buttons to strafe like you can do in most games.

Still, I don't think its worth the effort, as quad mechs are just novelties - they should implement LAMs long before quads.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cimarb, on 27 March 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

Most quad mechs have some sort of a turret, I believe, so it would control like a standard tank for the most part. The only difference would be strafing, which could be done just by adding two buttons to strafe like you can do in most games.

Still, I don't think its worth the effort, as quad mechs are just novelties - they should implement LAMs long before quads.

no turrets in Battletech ATM. Even though som eof the early art made one think, Quads have no waist/turrets, and mech turrets I believe are finally introduced post-Jihad, and are still very limited as to their usefulness, for reasons unknown to me.

[stjobe]

There's only two quads even in the timeline, the Scorpion and the Goliath.

The Scorpion has the obvious flaw of not having a waist; so no torso movement:



The Goliath has a turret, and plenty of variants that could be used:



But imagine the target that 80-ton thing would make! Talk about your White Elephant...

There's also the Xanthos, although it is considered extinct by 3050 (and as you can see, no waist):



So yeah, don't get your hopes up for any quads any time soon.

Edited by stjobe, 27 March 2014 - 09:42 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 27 March 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

There's only two quads even in the timeline, the Scorpion and the Goliath.

The Scorpion has the obvious flaw of not having a waist; so no torso movement:



The Goliath has a turret, and plenty of variants that could be used:



But imagine the target that 80-ton thing would make! Talk about your White Elephant...

There's also the Xanthos, although it is considered extinct by 3050 (and as you can see, no waist):



So yeah, don't get your hopes up for any quads any time soon.

the Goliath actually does not have a turret. Look up the quad rules, and then look up battletech turret rules.

The Dougram mech it was based on, though did, and early Btech artists were not known for consistency (or editors checking details)

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

the Goliath actually does not have a turret. Look up the quad rules, and then look up battletech turret rules.

Hmm, seems you're right. Total Warfare, p98, explicitly states quad 'mechs cannot torso twist, and while turret rotation is treated exactly like torso twist (ibid. p110), it is only available for combat vehicles.

Thank you for the correction.

That rules out the Goliath as well, and anyone's dreams of quad 'mechs in MWO is thus cruelly crushed.

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

The Dougram mech it was based on, though did, and early Btech artists were not known for consistency (or editors checking details)

True, true

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 27 March 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Hmm, seems you're right. Total Warfare, p98, explicitly states quad 'mechs cannot torso twist, and while turret rotation is treated exactly like torso twist (ibid. p110), it is only available for combat vehicles.

Thank you for the correction.

That rules out the Goliath as well, and anyone's dreams of quad 'mechs in MWO is thus cruelly crushed.


True, true

well, to be fair, they were crushed all the way back in Closed Beta. They said there were no plans to implement quads due to manpowers needed to program animation compared to the number of actual chassis available. Just made no sense to program quads (notoriously difficult to sync the animation on) for 2-3 mechs (or even what, a dozen total, eventually?) especially ones that would not end up being used much after the novelty wore off, do to the inherent competitive issues of not being able to twist.

[Cimarb]

See, that's why I just throw things out there - I know you intelligent people will just smack them down to the right place, lol! I volley, you spike!

[Bishop Steiner]

Cimarb, on 27 March 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

See, that's why I just throw things out there - I know you intelligent people will just smack them down to the right place, lol! I volley, you spike!

not sure if "intelligent" or just "way too much time absorbing otherwise useless information" as a teenager........

[Cimarb]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

not sure if "intelligent" or just "way too much time absorbing otherwise useless information" as a teenager........

"Useless" is a VERY subjective term....

[BarHaid]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

not sure if "intelligent" or just "way too much time absorbing otherwise useless information" as a teenager........

Oh..... Too true, dat.

[Steinar Bergstol]

It's not useless information! I'm sure I can find a way to turn all that pointless gaming trivia to some sort of Real Life use... somehow... Right? Guys?

Aw, screw it! Knowing this stuff is fun, even if it _is_ completely useless in the eyes of most of the human race.

Now then, we're getting the Vindicator, that's been confirmed, but how about the...



...KIM-2 Komodo?

I mean, the clans are getting their Blackhawk/Nova. Only fair that we get the Draconis Combine's answer to that mech, right? Okay, so it was produced in 3053, but by the time Community Warfare arrives we'll be there anyways.

45 tons
Engine: Icarus 225 XL
Speed: 86,4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 x Icarus 81 Jump Jets
Internal Structure: Standard
Armor: 7.5 tons Standard (H 18, CT 26, CT® 12, RT 12, RT® 8, LT 12, LT® 8, RA 28, LA 28, RL 32, LL 32)
Heat Sinks: 14 DHS
Weapons and Equipment:
Head: TAG (Forward-1)
Right Arm: 5 x Medium Laser (Victory 23R), 1 x Anti-Missile System (Yori Flyswatter), 1 ton AMS Ammo
Left Arm: 5 x Medium Laser (Victory 23R), 1 x Anti-Missile System (Yori Flyswatter), 1 ton AMS Ammo
Right Torso: 1 x ECM (Matabushi Guardian)

There are 3 variants, one which replaces 5 medium lasers with an ER Large laser. The remaining two use the C3 system, one having a C3 Slave Unit and the other being a C3 command mech with a C3 Master Computer.

Always had a soft spot for the Komodo next to the Daikyu out of the 3055 TR designs.

[Jin Ma]

Steinar Bergstol, on 27 March 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

It's not useless information! I'm sure I can find a way to turn all that pointless gaming trivia to some sort of Real Life use... somehow... Right? Guys?

Aw, screw it! Knowing this stuff is fun, even if it _is_ completely useless in the eyes of most of the human race.

Now then, we're getting the Vindicator, that's been confirmed, but how about the...



...KIM-2 Komodo?

I mean, the clans are getting their Blackhawk/Nova. Only fair that we get the Draconis Combine's answer to that mech, right? Okay, so it was produced in 3053, but by the time Community Warfare arrives we'll be there anyways.

45 tons
Engine: Icarus 225 XL
Speed: 86,4 km/h
Jump Jets: 5 x Icarus 81 Jump Jets
Internal Structure: Standard
Armor: 7.5 tons Standard (H 18, CT 26, CT® 12, RT 12, RT® 8, LT 12, LT® 8, RA 28, LA 28, RL 32, LL 32)
Heat Sinks: 14 DHS
Weapons and Equipment:
Head: TAG (Forward-1)
Right Arm: 5 x Medium Laser (Victory 23R), 1 x Anti-Missile System (Yori Flyswatter), 1 ton AMS Ammo
Left Arm: 5 x Medium Laser (Victory 23R), 1 x Anti-Missile System (Yori Flyswatter), 1 ton AMS Ammo
Right Torso: 1 x ECM (Matabushi Guardian)

There are 3 variants, one which replaces 5 medium lasers with an ER Large laser. The remaining two use the C3 system, one having a C3 Slave Unit and the other being a C3 command mech with a C3 Master Computer.

Always had a soft spot for the Komodo next to the Daikyu out of the 3055 TR designs.

this is a 2053er though. If we are getting 2053 mechs i'd want the bushwacker

[ShadowbaneX]

Granted, all of this is hypothetical since, as mentioned, PGI has come out and said they're not making them.

That said, while Quads couldn't torso twist, they could actually crab walk sideways equal to their cruising speed so they didn't have to turn, hence why the mouse would become the turn axis to rotate the mech, instead of a & d. The thing that'd make the most sense would be to add an additional axis to the throttle system. Forward & Reverse would remain as we currently have, but then they'd need the additional axis for the strafing.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Well, PGI does redesign Battletech mechs for torso twist like the Jenner, Cicada, Nova, etc... There would be no reason why they wouldn't redesign a quad mech with a turret or twisting torso of sorts.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

MeiSooHaityu, on 28 March 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Well, PGI does redesign Battletech mechs for torso twist like the Jenner, Cicada, Nova, etc... There would be no reason why they wouldn't redesign a quad mech with a turret or twisting torso of sorts.

^^This!

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 28 March 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Well, PGI does redesign Battletech mechs for torso twist like the Jenner, Cicada, Nova, etc... There would be no reason why they wouldn't redesign a quad mech with a turret or twisting torso of sorts.

yes, but those bipedal mechs counted as having wastes by the TT rules anyhow. (stupid as that is). Quads don't.

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 March 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

yes, but those bipedal mechs counted as having wastes by the TT rules anyhow. (stupid as that is). Quads don't.

Yep, a Locust can torso twist in TT, although exactly how it does that without a waist is anyone's guess:



Perhaps swivelling one "shoulder-hip" forwards and one backwards? Who knows, but all 'mechs except quads can torso twist.

[Nathan Foxbane]

MeiSooHaityu, on 28 March 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Well, PGI does redesign Battletech mechs for torso twist like the Jenner, Cicada, Nova, etc... There would be no reason why they wouldn't redesign a quad mech with a turret or twisting torso of sorts.

Not having waists did not affect how those 'Mechs walked just their ability to bring their weapons to bare on targets not in the direction of their line of movement.
Quads on the other hand get many quirks. They have no torso twist so they are allowed to laterally shift or crab walk. They actually are better suited to joystick control, oddly enough. Quad also do not suffer from legging in the same way as bipeds. To completely disable one all four legs must be destroyed and losing one does not have the same crippling effect as on a biped (takes two to do that). Legs are armored like legs so quads carry more armor. Their visual perspective alters significantly with the model. A Scorpion is about the height of a light 'Mech while a Goliath would be on par with a Victor.
As mentioned before the coding for quad moving would suck.

That said, I really, really, REALLY want them, but they are just not going to happen without a great deal of free time and/or appreciably more staff on PGI's part.

[Odanan]

Any rumor of a new mech in April?

And... about the Public Test... some say the Clan mechs might appear (it would be a great boost for sales). This is nonsense, right?