20517 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Karl Streiger, on 21 June 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

175 instead of 150 engine and a Rotary 2 could give the Jackrabbit some tooth - or with enough Rocketlaunchers you could run it with a LAC5 and a sting

Karl Streiger, on 21 June 2017 - 05:15 AM, said:

175 instead of 150 engine and a Rotary 2 could give the Jackrabbit some tooth - or with enough Rocketlaunchers you could run it with a LAC5 and a sting

Don't kid yourself, it's easily one of the worst mechs in existence. If you wanted to pay homage to it let's just go with the Nexus which is the upgraded version that's build sensibly for the weight.

[FLG 01]

I also have a soft spot for the Jackrabbit (forgotten design...). It would not be good on its own, but I think it would be very nice as part of a mixed Nexus/Jackrabbit Mech-pack. The Jackrabbit could easily pass as a variant of the Nexus.
And since there is a shortage of Nexus-variants, this might make even more sense.

[Brain Cancer]

The Jackrabbit was an example of the wrong gun on a decent 'Mech (with the "Joker" being the viable version).

It's like saying the Banshee was horrible. Of course it was, but you get a lot to work with in MWO.

[CycKath]

FLG 01, on 21 June 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

And since there is a shortage of Nexus-variants, this might make even more sense.

Arctic Wolf shows it not an impossible thing.

[Odanan]

CycKath, on 21 June 2017 - 03:30 PM, said:

Arctic Wolf shows it not an impossible thing.

Hmmm... now that's an interesting idea. A half-Nexus-half-Jackrabbit pack.

Hey, that would also work for Crockett/Katana. And maybe Charger/Hatamoto and Wasp/Stinger. Well, just Crockett/Katana - Wasp and Charger have a lot of great variants on their own.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 21 June 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Hmmm... now that's an interesting idea. A half-Nexus-half-Jackrabbit pack.

Yeah, but don't forget, it was done with the Mauler, first, like I mentioned above. That basically establishes a precedent that PGI is willing to commit to such packs. People would just have to be willing to acknowledge that both the Nexus and Jackrabbit variants are going to look the same.

Of course, in the case of the Wasp and Stinger, not only do they both have enough variants (and I'd love both, but Wasp first), they also both have more distinct and unique looks.

Edited by Sereglach, 21 June 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[FLG 01]

CycKath, on 21 June 2017 - 03:30 PM, said:

Arctic Wolf shows it not an impossible thing.

Indeed. The Jackrabbit could come as Reinforcement-pack like the BattleMech variants of the Arctic Wolf. The Jackrabbit will be for the lovers of the design anyway, while the meta guys can be happy with the base-pack (also no p2w).

Sereglach, on 21 June 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

People would just have to be willing to acknowledge that both the Nexus and Jackrabbit variants are going to look the same.

That's a problem for sure, but a minor one imo. After all, the Nexus artworks are hardly consistent in their depiction of the Mech.
And, even if that is my own humble opinion, the Jackrabbit art is the best and I hope Alex takes most of his inspiration from that source.

Odanan, on 21 June 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Hmmm... now that's an interesting idea. A half-Nexus-half-Jackrabbit pack.

Thanks; I thought so too.

[Zergling]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

I wouldn't be upset about the Raptor as a solid light omnimech for IS introduction. It at least has good omnipod potential, but by the time you max the armor it's not going to have as much pod space left for weaponry. In addition, at the slower speed for a 25 ton mech it would have to have solid quirks to help it out.

It would have 9 tons of tonnage free when armor is maxed.

Hardpoints per version:
Prime = 2E left arm, 2E right arm, 1M left torso, 2B/1M right torso, 1M center torso
A = 1E left arm, 1E right arm, 1E left torso, 2E right torso
B = 1M left torso, 1M right torso, 1M center torso
C = 1E left arm, 1E right arm, 2E left torso, 2E/1AMS right torso, 2E center torso
D = 1E left arm, 1E right arm, 1M left torso, 1E/1M/2B right torso, 1M center torso
E = 1M left torso, 1M right torso, 1M center torso
F = 3E left arm, 1E right arm, 3JJ left torso, 3JJ right torso, 1E/1JJ center torso

There are other variants too, but they have equipment that isn't being added yet. Which is a shame, because the G has a 3E right arm.

Anyway, even without the C center torso, the Raptor can run 9 energy hardpoints. With the C, that is 11.

It could easily run 6x Medium Laser + 3 double heat sink, or 6x Medium Laser + 6x Jumpjet (would require C center torso for the last one).
Likewise, it could run 9x Small Pulse, or 11x Small Laser.

It also has the option for missile builds, like 3x SRM4 + 3 tons of ammo.

In all, it would be a slower, slightly heavier and larger Locust, with better weapons tonnage and a lot of hardpoint options.

Edited by Zergling, 21 June 2017 - 08:18 PM.

[Sereglach]

Zergling, on 21 June 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

*snip*

9.5 tons of pod space is not a lot when you're only running 113.4kph, by MWO speeds, and only have ~5.5 tons of armor with a fixed IS XL engine.

For example, a Crab CRB-20 with the 350xl engine is going to run the same speed but have 15 tons for gear and 10.5 tons of armor.

The Raptor couldn't escape the Crab, and it couldn't out-fight the Crab. Funnily enough, even the Crab has some hefty structure quirks, so I can only imagine what the Raptor's quirks would look like. It probably would share a lot in common with the Urbanmech's quirks.

This comparison is one of the reasons that I firmly believe part of the "engine balancing" that Chris is pushing for is going to include getting IS XL engines to NOT kill the mech on ST loss but suffer larger penalties than clan counterparts (my guess would be 60% penalties for IS XL and 40% penalties for Clan XL). A change like that will make many of the 1st generation IS Omnimechs more viable in MWO . . . like the Raptor.

[Karl Streiger]

TheArisen, on 21 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

Don't kid yourself, it's easily one of the worst mechs in existence. If you wanted to pay homage to it let's just go with the Nexus which is the upgraded version that's build sensibly for the weight.

Doesn't has the power but the Jackrabbit combines solid speed with long range. Its a good combination
That guy can assassinate light armored troops without even getting into range.
Say it evade full at 16range he need a solid 8-10 were the MAD or Archer would need 11-13

[Zergling]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

9.5 tons of pod space is not a lot when you're only running 113.4kph, by MWO speeds, and only have ~5.5 tons of armor with a fixed IS XL engine.

For example, a Crab CRB-20 with the 350xl engine is going to run the same speed but have 15 tons for gear and 10.5 tons of armor.

The Raptor couldn't escape the Crab, and it couldn't out-fight the Crab. Funnily enough, even the Crab has some hefty structure quirks, so I can only imagine what the Raptor's quirks would look like. It probably would share a lot in common with the Urbanmech's quirks.

That's the same problem with Urbanmech/Kit Fox/Adder versus Linebacker/Stormcrow/Griffin, or Cougar versus Timber Wolf.

PGI has never been bothered by it before, so I don't see them having such an objection with the Raptor.

[Sereglach]

Zergling, on 21 June 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

That's the same problem with Urbanmech/Kit Fox/Adder versus Linebacker/Stormcrow/Griffin, or Cougar versus Timber Wolf.

PGI has never been bothered by it before, so I don't see them having such an objection with the Raptor.

I'm just saying that if you compare it to other mechs it's not as good of a choice, not that it's an issue for PGI. I'd much rather have a Wasp or Mongoose.

Sadly, though, it's probably one of the best IS light Omnis to choose out there -in timeline- for introducing Omnimechs to the IS. Also, the clan mechs at least have Clan XL with some hefty quirks, and the Urbanmech is quirked with the armor of about a 50 ton mech . . . so I wouldn't expect much different from the Raptor if they introduced it. In addition, it'd be the lightest such "slow light" to be introduced, so it'd probably need even more compensation than the others in the quirks department.

[Zergling]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

In addition, it'd be the lightest such "slow light" to be introduced, so it'd probably need even more compensation than the others in the quirks department.

It has the same speed as the Mist Lynx, which is also 25 tons.

The Raptor F would have the same jump capability as the Mist Lynx, and other Raptor's would have the option of having just 1 less jumpjet than the Mist Lynx.
With 6 jumpjets, the Raptor would be similarly tonnage impaired as the Mist Lynx, but it would have far better hardpoints.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 21 June 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

9.5 tons of pod space is not a lot when you're only running 113.4kph, by MWO speeds, and only have ~5.5 tons of armor with a fixed IS XL engine.

For example, a Crab CRB-20 with the 350xl engine is going to run the same speed but have 15 tons for gear and 10.5 tons of armor.

The Raptor couldn't escape the Crab, and it couldn't out-fight the Crab. Funnily enough, even the Crab has some hefty structure quirks, so I can only imagine what the Raptor's quirks would look like. It probably would share a lot in common with the Urbanmech's quirks.

This comparison is one of the reasons that I firmly believe part of the "engine balancing" that Chris is pushing for is going to include getting IS XL engines to NOT kill the mech on ST loss but suffer larger penalties than clan counterparts (my guess would be 60% penalties for IS XL and 40% penalties for Clan XL). A change like that will make many of the 1st generation IS Omnimechs more viable in MWO . . . like the Raptor.

The Urbanmech is out there to prove that you can adapt to a different play style as a slow light.

But the greatest test will be the Cougar. If PGI can make it a decent mech, Raptor will be easier.

Ps: IS XL in lights is no problem: lights die of legging, anyway.

[Zergling]

Odanan, on 22 June 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

Ps: IS XL in lights is no problem: lights die of legging, anyway.

And generally Clan lights that rely on mobility for protection are gonna die very quickly if they lose a side torso anyway, thanks to the speed penalty for losing a side torso with Clan XL.

The difference between 'immediate death' and 'death a few seconds later' doesn't matter all that much, so the balance between IS and Clan XLs is fairly close with 'mobility for defense' mechs.

Edited by Zergling, 22 June 2017 - 02:35 AM.

[Odanan]

Did you guys see this?

[SuperFunkTron]

Odanan, on 22 June 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Did you guys see this?

For some of the other guys out there, could you expand on what you're pointing out? (I see something about players, assassins, and civilians.)

Do you think that they are incorporating more AI in the civil war update?

[Odanan]

SuperFunkTron, on 22 June 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

For some of the other guys out there, could you expand on what you're pointing out? (I see something about players, assassins, and civilians.)

Do you think that they are incorporating more AI in the civil war update?

They are definitely into something. No idea what.

Did I say you guys (recently) that I biggest wish in MWO right now is to play against bots? PGI didn't even need to make a new interface for them, just make them addable in Private lobby.

[CK16]

Russ, you got some splaining to do!

Could be interesting, maybe something for FW in the Civil War? Hmmm

[Odanan]

CK16, on 22 June 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

Russ, you got some splaining to do!

Could be interesting, maybe something for FW in the Civil War? Hmmm

This Town Hall seams to come in good timing.