Jump to content

Ultimate Mech Discussion Thread

BattleMech Balance

20517 replies to this topic

#19641 FLG 01

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Leutnant
  • Leutnant
  • 2,646 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:04 PM

View PostSereglach, on 31 August 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

I'm the exact opposite. I like the way it's been changed. It feels like it fits the body more and gives it a beefier overall feel.

The head may be a small detail and I can see Alex took a lot inspiration from the original, but then he squashed it. I know this is all subjective but no canon Charger art ever had such a flat head. It's just not what I am used to see. ...not what I expected.

Anyway, it may look beefier, but don't want it to be beefy in the first place. ;)
I am a cavalryman and thus the Charger is my destiny. Consequently I hope I get a slim Mech with great shield arms to run an XL-engine.


View PostOdanan, on 31 August 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

The Highlander's head could be... not a Highlander's head.

(also, I'm disappointed they didn't give the Charger one variant with MASC)

The Highlander was my first association, too.
And, of course, I am disappointed that we got no MASC variant, not just as a cavalryman. I mean, if a Mech deserved the full five variants (plus the hero), it's the Charger with its good diversity of available variants.

#19642 Sereglach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,563 posts
  • LocationWherever things are burning.

Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:33 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 31 August 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

The head may be a small detail and I can see Alex took a lot inspiration from the original, but then he squashed it. I know this is all subjective but no canon Charger art ever had such a flat head. It's just not what I am used to see. ...not what I expected.

Anyway, it may look beefier, but don't want it to be beefy in the first place. Posted Image
I am a cavalryman and thus the Charger is my destiny. Consequently I hope I get a slim Mech with great shield arms to run an XL-engine.

I've always seen the Charger as a Cavalry mech, too, but I saw it being a more bulky/stocky smash-and-grab type of cavalry mech. I've admittedly never seen it as being "slim". However, for MWO, given the geometry sharing with the Hatamoto, it'll probably be slimmer than I personally imagine it; and it obviously already has incredible shield arms. I am interested in seeing the 3D translation, however.

Also, MASC would have been nice on one. The SA5 (the only MASC variant I noticed) would have been an incredible variant to add that'd probably have been even stronger than the 1A5 will likely be (let alone all the new goodies: MASC, LBX-20, LFE, ER Mediums). It could have easily taken the 1A5's place in the lineup. However, given that it's a distinctly superior variant, I expect it to be a later loyalty reward or reinforcement pack or something similar.

#19643 Odanan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 8,206 posts
  • LocationBrazil

Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:53 PM

View PostSereglach, on 31 August 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

Also, MASC would have been nice on one. The SA5 (the only MASC variant I noticed) would have been an incredible variant to add that'd probably have been even stronger than the 1A5 will likely be (let alone all the new goodies: MASC, LBX-20, LFE, ER Mediums). It could have easily taken the 1A5's place in the lineup. However, given that it's a distinctly superior variant, I expect it to be a later loyalty reward or reinforcement pack or something similar.

I think it didn't make to MWO because it has Light Engine and in our mechlab you can't split the crits for the LBX20. :(

#19644 Sereglach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,563 posts
  • LocationWherever things are burning.

Posted 31 August 2018 - 09:01 PM

View PostOdanan, on 31 August 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

I think it didn't make to MWO because it has Light Engine and in our mechlab you can't split the crits for the LBX20. Posted Image

. . . Right . . . I forgot about that. It's just like the KGC, which should have lower arm and hand actuators with split crits for the AC/20s. PGI really needs to either figure out split crits or just shrink the crits of some weapons to allow certain lore builds into the game. The mere 2 crits shaved off of the IS AC/20 variants isn't going to break any lore builds; and in fact, it'd allow PGI to implement more lore builds into MWO without issue. They'd also still be bigger than their AC/10 counterparts, so it's not like the crit shrinkage would suddenly break the AC/10.

#19645 CycKath

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 2,580 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • LocationSE QLD, Australia

Posted 01 September 2018 - 01:28 PM

Okay, pondering next month - if its going to be a Clan replication double.

If they hadn't done the Hellfire already a Hellfire/Lupus double pack might have made sense. Unless they are doing one unrelated 'Mech and repurposing the Hellfire back to the Lupus, I'd assume a Scylla/Storm Giant combo, which would be interesting given if so the Storm Giant would practically be a PGI original.

#19646 Odanan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 8,206 posts
  • LocationBrazil

Posted 01 September 2018 - 03:23 PM

View PostCycKath, on 01 September 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

Okay, pondering next month - if its going to be a Clan replication double.

If they hadn't done the Hellfire already a Hellfire/Lupus double pack might have made sense. Unless they are doing one unrelated 'Mech and repurposing the Hellfire back to the Lupus, I'd assume a Scylla/Storm Giant combo, which would be interesting given if so the Storm Giant would practically be a PGI original.

Stone Rhino is a major candidate, I believe.

Of the MW2 mechs, there are very few missing by now:
  • Dire Wolf - in MWO
  • Firemoth
  • Gargoyle - in MWO
  • Hellbringer - in MWO
  • Jenner IIC - in MWO
  • Kit Fox - in MWO
  • Mad Dog - in MWO
  • Marauder IIC - in MWO
  • Nova - in MWO
  • Rifleman IIC
  • Stormcrow - in MWO
  • Summoner - in MWO
  • Timber Wolf - in MWO
  • Warhammer IIC
  • Warhawk - in MWO
  • Battlemaster (Unlockable) - in MWO
And Ghost Bear Legacy:
  • Executioner - in MWO
  • Grizzly
  • Horned Owl
  • Incubus - in MWO
  • Kodiak - in MWO
  • Linebacker - in MWO
  • Naga
  • Phantom
  • Stone Rhino
  • Annihilator - in MWO
  • Atlas - in MWO
  • Hatamoto-Chi - in MWO
  • Raven - in MWO
  • Victor - in MWO
But a Rifleman IIC + Warhammer IIC pack would be great.</p>

#19647 Will9761

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Brother
  • Big Brother
  • 4,674 posts

Posted 01 September 2018 - 03:38 PM

View PostOdanan, on 01 September 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

Stone Rhino is a major candidate, I believe.

Of the MW2 mechs, there are very few missing by now:
  • Dire Wolf - in MWO
  • Firemoth
  • Gargoyle - in MWO
  • Hellbringer - in MWO
  • Jenner IIC - in MWO
  • Kit Fox - in MWO
  • Mad Dog - in MWO
  • Marauder IIC - in MWO
  • Nova - in MWO
  • Rifleman IIC
  • Stormcrow - in MWO
  • Summoner - in MWO
  • Timber Wolf - in MWO
  • Warhammer IIC
  • Warhawk - in MWO
  • Battlemaster (Unlockable) - in MWO
And Ghost Bear Legacy:
  • Executioner - in MWO
  • Grizzly
  • Horned Owl
  • Incubus - in MWO
  • Kodiak - in MWO
  • Linebacker - in MWO
  • Naga
  • Phantom
  • Stone Rhino
  • Annihilator - in MWO
  • Atlas - in MWO
  • Hatamoto-Chi - in MWO
  • Raven - in MWO
  • Victor - in MWO
But a Rifleman IIC + Warhammer IIC pack would be great.</p>





As for the Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries Mechs we have in MWO they are the:
  • Assassin
  • Awesome
  • Centurion
  • Commando
  • Catapult
  • Crab
  • Cauldron Born
  • Cicada
  • Cyclops
  • Dragon
  • Highlander
  • Hunchback
  • Jagermech
  • Javelin
  • Jenner
  • Mauler
  • Orion
  • Panther
  • Quickdraw
  • Raven
  • Stalker
  • Trebutchet
  • Urbanmech
  • Vindicator
  • Zeus

Edited by Will9761, 01 September 2018 - 03:54 PM.


#19648 SuperFunkTron

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Slayer
  • The Slayer
  • 910 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 01 September 2018 - 05:25 PM

Clearly the Phantom and Firemoth would be the best two-pack from those mechs still not added from all of the MW2 games. The clans could really use a greater variety of high speed mechs and would be great tactical additions! Pouncer would also be a good addition.

#19649 Sereglach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,563 posts
  • LocationWherever things are burning.

Posted 01 September 2018 - 07:16 PM

I wouldn't start placing too many bets on any sort of clan double pack for October, unless you're going to pull out a pair of clan mechs that could share as much geometry as the Charger and Hatamoto Chi will share. While in TT there's quite a bit of art difference between this:
Posted Image

and this:
Posted Image

In MWO they share a great deal more of their geometry in common. It's probably going to take less than 1/3 the time to create the Hatamoto Chi, after completing the Charger's base geometry, then it would to create a unique mech from scratch. Therefore, unless PGI has something similar in store for the clans (can't think of any off of the top of my head, that we don't already have in game), I wouldn't count on any such 2-mech release for them next month.

#19650 Pariah Devalis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Clan Cat
  • The Clan Cat
  • 7,655 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationAboard the NCS True Path

Posted 02 September 2018 - 02:42 PM

View PostSereglach, on 01 September 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

I wouldn't start placing too many bets on any sort of clan double pack for October, unless you're going to pull out a pair of clan mechs that could share as much geometry as the Charger and Hatamoto Chi will share. While in TT there's quite a bit of art difference between this:
Posted Image

and this:
Posted Image

In MWO they share a great deal more of their geometry in common. It's probably going to take less than 1/3 the time to create the Hatamoto Chi, after completing the Charger's base geometry, then it would to create a unique mech from scratch. Therefore, unless PGI has something similar in store for the clans (can't think of any off of the top of my head, that we don't already have in game), I wouldn't count on any such 2-mech release for them next month.


Animation, too. I'd suspect the two would have the same rigging and animations.

#19651 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 02 September 2018 - 05:27 PM

View PostSereglach, on 01 September 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

I wouldn't start placing too many bets on any sort of clan double pack for October, unless you're going to pull out a pair of clan mechs that could share as much geometry as the Charger and Hatamoto Chi will share. While in TT there's quite a bit of art difference between this:
Posted Image

and this:
Posted Image

In MWO they share a great deal more of their geometry in common. It's probably going to take less than 1/3 the time to create the Hatamoto Chi, after completing the Charger's base geometry, then it would to create a unique mech from scratch. Therefore, unless PGI has something similar in store for the clans (can't think of any off of the top of my head, that we don't already have in game), I wouldn't count on any such 2-mech release for them next month.

well... funnily enough that was the whole idea behind all the original omnis.... Shame FASA went and pretty much immediately crapped the sheets and went and drew all the later ones all sorts of silly and crazy and nonsensical, and in pretty much anything but modular manners. Also a Pity the HataMotoCheeze got a Face on it's chest and the MWOCharger has a Derplander head but we can't always get what we want.

#19652 Sereglach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,563 posts
  • LocationWherever things are burning.

Posted 02 September 2018 - 05:46 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 September 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

well... funnily enough that was the whole idea behind all the original omnis.... Shame FASA went and pretty much immediately crapped the sheets and went and drew all the later ones all sorts of silly and crazy and nonsensical, and in pretty much anything but modular manners. Also a Pity the HataMotoCheeze got a Face on it's chest and the MWOCharger has a Derplander head but we can't always get what we want.

Bitter much? I find this whole statement ironic coming from the one who's had sentiments wishing people expressed more positive views on the forums. Personally, I like the new art and have always felt most of the older art needs some serious face lifts, especially to compete with art (and thereby miniatures) from other, newer games. It's seemed Catalyst has felt this way, too, with the way they've been making new artwork.

Honestly though, when it comes to older omnimech art, I think the more pressing issue FASA started to run into was realizing that having a bunch of chassis at different weight classes, yet sharing the same "core chassis" for physical components (Dasher and Koshi, Vulture and Mad Cat, etc.), made little sense. If they share the same core in their chassis then why are some of lesser max tonnage? FASA never seemed to find a solid way to explain that, so they just said "well, they share some parts to make logistics easier, but the chassis are still different at their core" and started to make whatever art they felt like making.

To each their own, though, I suppose.

Edited by Sereglach, 02 September 2018 - 05:46 PM.


#19653 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 02 September 2018 - 06:04 PM

View PostSereglach, on 02 September 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

Honestly though, when it comes to older omnimech art, I think the more pressing issue FASA started to run into was realizing that having a bunch of chassis at different weight classes, yet sharing the same "core chassis" for physical components (Dasher and Koshi, Vulture and Mad Cat, etc.), made little sense. If they share the same core in their chassis then why are some of lesser max tonnage? FASA never seemed to find a solid way to explain that, so they just said "well, they share some parts to make logistics easier, but the chassis are still different at their core" and started to make whatever art they felt like making.

To each their own, though, I suppose.

Another inconsistency is the allocation of internal critical slots, different internal skeletons, and different armor amounts. For example, the Mad Cat's legs have an Endo-Steel skeleton instead of Standard like the Vulture's, and those legs also carry more armor. Also the Vulture's legs have space to mount items but the Mad Cat's legs cannot carry any equipment. By all laws of logic, the Vulture and Mad Cat legs SHOULD look at least somewhat different.

The same case goes for most other Omnimech "cousin" pairs.

Edited by FupDup, 02 September 2018 - 06:04 PM.


#19654 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 02 September 2018 - 06:38 PM

View PostSereglach, on 02 September 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

Bitter much? I find this whole statement ironic coming from the one who's had sentiments wishing people expressed more positive views on the forums. Personally, I like the new art and have always felt most of the older art needs some serious face lifts, especially to compete with art (and thereby miniatures) from other, newer games. It's seemed Catalyst has felt this way, too, with the way they've been making new artwork.

Honestly though, when it comes to older omnimech art, I think the more pressing issue FASA started to run into was realizing that having a bunch of chassis at different weight classes, yet sharing the same "core chassis" for physical components (Dasher and Koshi, Vulture and Mad Cat, etc.), made little sense. If they share the same core in their chassis then why are some of lesser max tonnage? FASA never seemed to find a solid way to explain that, so they just said "well, they share some parts to make logistics easier, but the chassis are still different at their core" and started to make whatever art they felt like making.

To each their own, though, I suppose.

What's bitter about the statement?

I expressed an opinion about the art decision. Nothing to do with bitterness.

You also seem to be conflating two totally separate points I am making into one. I am referring in one point to the trend in TRO art to go to all sort of weird and wonky designs on Omnimechs. Regardless of your subjective aesthetic opinion, it defeats the idea of MODULARITY, easy swap parts that was the original idea behind the original 1 omnimechs. Period. Which is an objective fact.

Yes we can get into the tonange, endo, ferro and other issues that FASA dumped on themselves ad infinitum also, but the original intent, is obvious. We can see many other areas where they deviated from whatever original concepts were from the art to final product from things liek the missile pods on the Summoner and Hellbringers legs, the twin 6pack/dual LL arms on the Stormcrow that obviously never became a thing (despite the old fluff referencing it), etc. Oddly curved and strange shapes do not tend to lend themselves to easy modularity, so things liek the later Turkina, Night Gyr, Arctic Cheetah Art, really fell away from the concept.

My next comment was a subjective opinion that I did not like the artistic choices made on either the Hatamoto (which I have always felt was a Weeaboo mech made to grab the attention of the Gundam kiddies of the 90s, period) or the Charger, which if you took away it's little pistol and the left arm and posted without a name, I would bet NOBODY would have identified it as a Charger, because it is missing almost every basic cue from the Charger design. What is "bitter" about that?

Maybe it's time you spent a little less time trying to be an armchair psychologist, and more time working on your reading comprehension? There is a difference between wanting to see more positivist, and fighting against toxicity and trolls, and having an opinion. Alex usually makes great concepts. IMO, this was not one of those times. Deal with it.

*SMH*

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 September 2018 - 06:39 PM.


#19655 Sereglach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,563 posts
  • LocationWherever things are burning.

Posted 02 September 2018 - 09:27 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 September 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

*snip*

Apparently, by pointing out the obvious, I touched a nerve; and you decide to rant and make pointless insulting jabs over it? Well, that's at least entertaining, I suppose. Next time you express an opinion maybe take a lesson from yourself and do it with a bit less toxicity. It's obviously bitter when, rather than directly address facets you don't like about the mechs in a respectable fashion, you decide to gloss over them with snide remarks and insults to the art.

View PostFupDup, on 02 September 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

Another inconsistency is the allocation of internal critical slots, different internal skeletons, and different armor amounts. For example, the Mad Cat's legs have an Endo-Steel skeleton instead of Standard like the Vulture's, and those legs also carry more armor. Also the Vulture's legs have space to mount items but the Mad Cat's legs cannot carry any equipment. By all laws of logic, the Vulture and Mad Cat legs SHOULD look at least somewhat different.

The same case goes for most other Omnimech "cousin" pairs.


All very true. It seemed omni technology never got a fully fleshed out explanation in lore other than, "it's modular and quick to repair and/or reconfigure." That can be debated in plenty of different directions with different opinions on how it works. There are plenty of issues in saying that all of the core chassis parts are modular. For me, personally, I always took it as little more than how weapons "plugged-in" to the core chassis and had nothing to do with the chassis itself. However, for weapons to be able to just "plug in" to the mech, the core chassis had to be built a certain way, which is why there's all the restrictions. Of course, I'm sure there are more hardcore lore-buffs that could provide a lot more information on the subject.

Regardless, it allowed FASA (and later companies) to just make whatever mech art they wanted instead of trying to make everything look like they're built off of the same core parts. That seems like a plus to me, as it allowed them to make more than just the same reconfigured dozen or so "core parts" over and over again, especially when compared to all of the mech variety on the IS side.

#19656 xVLFBERHxT

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wrath
  • The Wrath
  • 698 posts

Posted 02 September 2018 - 10:57 PM

The omnimech-discussion is very interesting and the point is new to me (only read the books in the 90‘s, never had the opportunity to play the tabletop game). I thought always, omnimechs are superior, because they can change parts/ omnipods between the own variantvariant (like in mow). Never thought about reused parts like legs.

#19657 Requiemking

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Solitary
  • The Solitary
  • 2,479 posts
  • LocationStationed at the Iron Dingo's Base on Dumassas

Posted 03 September 2018 - 10:58 AM

View PostSereglach, on 02 September 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

Apparently, by pointing out the obvious, I touched a nerve; and you decide to rant and make pointless insulting jabs over it? Well, that's at least entertaining, I suppose. Next time you express an opinion maybe take a lesson from yourself and do it with a bit less toxicity. It's obviously bitter when, rather than directly address facets you don't like about the mechs in a respectable fashion, you decide to gloss over them with snide remarks and insults to the art.



All very true. It seemed omni technology never got a fully fleshed out explanation in lore other than, "it's modular and quick to repair and/or reconfigure." That can be debated in plenty of different directions with different opinions on how it works. There are plenty of issues in saying that all of the core chassis parts are modular. For me, personally, I always took it as little more than how weapons "plugged-in" to the core chassis and had nothing to do with the chassis itself. However, for weapons to be able to just "plug in" to the mech, the core chassis had to be built a certain way, which is why there's all the restrictions. Of course, I'm sure there are more hardcore lore-buffs that could provide a lot more information on the subject.

Regardless, it allowed FASA (and later companies) to just make whatever mech art they wanted instead of trying to make everything look like they're built off of the same core parts. That seems like a plus to me, as it allowed them to make more than just the same reconfigured dozen or so "core parts" over and over again, especially when compared to all of the mech variety on the IS side.

We know at the very least that the Gargoyle has fully modular arms. As a matter of fact, all one really had to do to fix a typical Gargoyle was to swap it's (very frequently) sawed-off arms and out she goes.

#19658 Virlutris

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Spear
  • The Spear
  • 1,443 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationVery likely goofing off in a match near you.

Posted 14 September 2018 - 06:33 PM

Too quiet here.

Next months mech will be what?

Turkina? Or have they finally played out the previous production cycle and gotten to the point where we'll start to see the remaining IIC editions of the Unseen?


Edit for spelling derp.

Edited by Virlutris, 14 September 2018 - 06:33 PM.


#19659 Sereglach

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,563 posts
  • LocationWherever things are burning.

Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:25 PM

View PostVirlutris, on 14 September 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

Too quiet here.

Next months mech will be what?

Turkina? Or have they finally played out the previous production cycle and gotten to the point where we'll start to see the remaining IIC editions of the Unseen?

Who knows. I certainly wouldn't complain if we start to see more IIC mechs; and not all of those IICs are reliant on any of the unseen, so they could have been put on the roadmap even before the court dismissal. However, I wouldn't expect to see the ones I believe you're referring to, quite yet (Rifleman IIC and Warhammer IIC).

It is getting close to when I'd think PGI's mech planning buffer would have run out, but I don't think we're quite there, yet. I'd wager they probably have mechs selected at least 4 months out. That also lines up with the same size buffer between Annoucement to Release of mechs currently. With the dismissal in mid-June, that means the next 4 months (July, August, September, and October) would have already been planned out. Therefore, I'm guessing they already had October lined up before the dismissal was official . . . but it's not like any of us can say for certain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, I expected more discussion about the Incubus by now. The thing looked bulky in the first images, but I was more prone to blame that on awkward perspective in the shots. With the size comparisons out it looks like the thing might have some pretty good hitboxes. CT might be easy to hit, though . . . it'll depend on how the ST and leg hitboxes work with the narrow waist and broad hips.

#19660 Odanan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 8,206 posts
  • LocationBrazil

Posted 15 September 2018 - 04:22 AM

View PostVirlutris, on 14 September 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

Too quiet here.

Next months mech will be what?

Turkina? Or have they finally played out the previous production cycle and gotten to the point where we'll start to see the remaining IIC editions of the Unseen?

Stone Rhino or Turkina, most likely. Maybe even Rifleman IIC or Warhammer IIC.





29 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 29 guests, 0 anonymous users