65 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

MechaBattler, on 21 December 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

Just fought another match counterattacking against clans on the snow map. Yeah, that's not fun. We lost 7 mechs trying to open the gate. Blue and yellow light show as far as the eye could see. The whole while the other team taunting. And we were comprised of a unit mostly. Just three pugs. I get the feeling they might not have been on coms or that they simply gave up on the idea of taking it. One guy kept joking "GG, close." Then it was the show everyone expects. The Clans raking us as we drop. Rushing to get in range only to get wrecked. It's not like there's any cover on our landing zone.

The last time I fought on this map. The clans just used multiple LRMs. We tried to push. But there was no cover that actually provided cover from LRMs.

Expect a lot of LRMs from Clanners. need to stack ECM mechs in your deck if you're dropping against them. It's not a bad option to start the very first round with a 12 light swarm if you can, or at least 6 or 8 of them. Just flat out jump the gate, rush the o-gens. While the Clanners deal with that you drop both gates. Much like with IS vs IS you need to build your drop deck with a plan for all 4 waves and make sure you get folks on board with it. It's going to take time to get all the pugs trained up for it.

Not trying to deny your experiences - there are some exceptional clanner groups and it can feel like a meat grinder to play them. They just got shut down by Steiner and FRR took a planet from GB last round. Kurita shut down Smoke Jags for a week or more.

[Kyle Wright]

MechaBattler, on 21 December 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

Just fought another match counterattacking against clans on the snow map. Yeah, that's not fun. We lost 7 mechs trying to open the gate. Blue and yellow light show as far as the eye could see. The whole while the other team taunting. And we were comprised of a unit mostly. Just three pugs. I get the feeling they might not have been on coms or that they simply gave up on the idea of taking it. One guy kept joking "GG, close." Then it was the show everyone expects. The Clans raking us as we drop. Rushing to get in range only to get wrecked. It's not like there's any cover on our landing zone.

The last time I fought on this map. The clans just used multiple LRMs. We tried to push. But there was no cover that actually provided cover from LRMs.

To counter losing mechs so early have people cycle through hit and runs on the generator. But the push has to be very coordinated when you do push. But that map has the issue of not having a 3rd entrance on a different side of the map to make it more of a guessing Hey need scouts right now sort of game.

[totgeboren]

Darwins Dog, on 20 December 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

The clans have 3 mechs that are a bit better than the IS mechs (stormcrow, timberwolf, direwolf). The difference is slight, but there. Better lasers generally, but IS ballistics and LRMS are better. Not to mention some of the IS quirks (Thunderbolts anyone?) make them really fierce.

The reason why clans are pushing in so far is because several of the best teams in MWO are playing clans. If you face LORD or SJR you will probably get smoked, but it has little to do with clan mechs, and more to do with players that practice together every single day.

Well, this is matter of statistics, because there are so many games being fought. Yes, if the clanners have some really good 12-mans, these teams should make the clanners win a bit more. The relative impact of these groups would be proportional to the number of games these specific people play in comparison to how many games are played overall.

But also remember that attackers get to face an empty field if no opponents show up, and just by looking at the faction map we see night after night that the number of IS players outnumber the clanners to a noticeable degree. This means IS should win more than clanners.

So these op clanner teams need to both cancel the effect of the large population difference, the effect of the IS also having some pretty good 12mans, and the quite massive effect of all other players playing games (the op 12-mans do not make up a significant portion of the entire clanner population).

Not to mention the existence of confirmation bias and that most pug clanners seem to think that clanners are balanced. I mean, I thought I was doing bad, but not that bad in IS pug/small group drops. Then I started tallying the numbers. Even with a proper plan and coordination, in pug drops I have a 90% loss rate.

PGI shows us the numbers by updating the map. Just look at the second image here.

http://mwomercs.com/...-cw-time-lapse/

Notice how much the IS borders change?
Notice how much the clan borders change?

[Averen]

It's even better: The clans used laserboats and advanced. And now, the laser fix shifts the balance further.

The biggest issue is attacking on the ice map, that's not even funny more. Even pug vs pug seems to result in roflstomps every time.
Just the damage while opening the doors is becoming a joke after the fix. The two hills are just perfect for clan er laser range, while most is mechs can't even shoot back. And even then clans can put up a firing line on the hills.

And pushing in just results in a slaughter. It's almost standard that the first IS wave dies without killing more than 2 clanmechs. I wish i was joking.

Edited by Averen, 21 December 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[xxREVxx]

Taynak, on 20 December 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

ok. i don't want to get into a long drawn out debate about this, i won't even respond or look at the post again afterward but i have to say this...

The Clans are far too OP... it only takes them 2 lances to come in and win. there is no chance against them.

they paid a bunch of money and now they just win all the time... yay.... thank you so much for that...

i thought you guys were trying to balance the game with the addition of the shield gens for the gun, but it only made the Zerg that much worse... there is no strategy to this...

and put this in reverse... if the innersphere mechs tried this strategy... which they do... they instantly die... and clans win...

im not the only one who is saying this but apparently the only one with the balls to tell you that you have an unbalanced game..

Yes, the zerg rush needs to be addressed. People also need to remember that MWO is far from a finished product, it is still in all actuality a beta. PGI attempted a fix pertaining to the orbital gun power generator being destroyed so easily/quickly. Is it a good fix or is was it ineffective? At least they are trying.
Possible solution(s):
- Make the generator(s) harder to destroy.
- Make changes to the maps;

• Put the objective in the center of the map (which will mean larger maps...something PGI does not seem to want to hear)
  
• Three totally separate "attacker" drop zones
  
• Set up the terrain so the attacking teams cannot form up on the outside of just one gate, each attacking lance would have its own avenue of approach which may end up promoting more lance on lance type of engagements.

- Defender reinforcements should be respawned in base mechbays, NOT dropships (possibly implement a repair and rearm function as well to give the defenders a bit more of an edge).



Regards,
Poison

Edited by Reverend Poison, 21 December 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[hashinshin]

Savage Wolf, on 20 December 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

You do know that all the first 8 clan mechs are free now, don't you? If you really think they are that much better, then join them.

Personally I've tried being in a 12 man pug team with IS mechs that won against a 12 man premade clan team. Both as attacker and as a defender. It can be done.

I went and checked and the first 8 clan mechs have ridiculously high Cbill costs. How is that free?

[Carcass23]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

I went and checked and the first 8 clan mechs have ridiculously high Cbill costs. How is that free?

OMG I hope this was sarcasm.

[D34DMetal]

Part of the issue defending against clan attacks in CW is that their heavy hitters are faster than their IS counter-parts with the same firepower: I'm looking and the Timber Wolf, Hellbringer, and the Stormcrow.

[Astrocanis]

DeadMetal89, on 21 December 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

Part of the issue defending against clan attacks in CW is that their heavy hitters are faster than their IS counter-parts with the same firepower: I'm looking and the Timber Wolf, Hellbringer, and the Stormcrow.

Or "remotely similar" firepower. There really are no equivalents in general, although specific cases can be made for IS mechs. My favorite is the Thunderbolt 5ss which can vomit "indefinitely" without overheating. Quad-heatsinks, perhaps?

The favored canards of clan defenders: "But your lights are better than ours", and "You do know clan mechs run HOTTER, right?" The first, I can agree with. The second is a bit of a joke. As in HP to Curb Weight, damage to heat clans have an advantage. They have to fire less frequently. When they do it's to much greater effect.

Here's a question: Which IS mech within a 10 ton radius is in the same league as a Timberwolf?

[hashinshin]

Carcass23, on 21 December 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

OMG I hope this was sarcasm.

Is there something I missed that allows you to get the mechs for free?

[KharnZor]

Taynak, on 20 December 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

ok. i don't want to get into a long drawn out debate about this, i won't even respond or look at the post again afterward but i have to say this...

The Clans are far too OP... it only takes them 2 lances to come in and win. there is no chance against them.

they paid a bunch of money and now they just win all the time... yay.... thank you so much for that...

i thought you guys were trying to balance the game with the addition of the shield gens for the gun, but it only made the Zerg that much worse... there is no strategy to this...

and put this in reverse... if the innersphere mechs tried this strategy... which they do... they instantly die... and clans win...

im not the only one who is saying this but apparently the only one with the balls to tell you that you have an unbalanced game..

[InspectorG]

Taynak, on 20 December 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

ok. i don't want to get into a long drawn out debate about this, i won't even respond or look at the post again afterward but i have to say this...

The Clans are far too OP... it only takes them 2 lances to come in and win. there is no chance against them.

they paid a bunch of money and now they just win all the time... yay.... thank you so much for that...

i thought you guys were trying to balance the game with the addition of the shield gens for the gun, but it only made the Zerg that much worse... there is no strategy to this...

and put this in reverse... if the innersphere mechs tried this strategy... which they do... they instantly die... and clans win...

im not the only one who is saying this but apparently the only one with the balls to tell you that you have an unbalanced game..

Forgot its still in Beta?

Go play Clans with a short term contract. See how it is.

THEN make a judgement that may be obsoleted by the next patch.

PGI needs to collect lots of 'numbers' from many matches before a Meta is found and solutions can be found to any 'problems'.

Realize this: CW is INTENDED for 12mans on comms who want a larger warfare style game.

It is NOT a PUG with 3 EXTRA LIVES.

[Mordin Ashe]

Dear OP,

find a unit and have 2000+ drops with them. Then you will find out how come the bulk of the successful units are performing so well, playing together for quite a long time pays off.

Speaking from my experience with CGBI: We still lose, yes, but that is partialy due to bad communication and to a large degree huge ammount of non-meta builds in our mechbays.

How many months have you trained with your teammates? How many hundreds of drops did you have together?

[GIGALO]

is lights are way op its almost impossible to stop them all in a coordinated push

[Deathlike]

GIGALO, on 21 December 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

is lights are way op its almost impossible to stop them all in a coordinated push

That's only true if the defense is completely uncoordinated.

At higher levels of play, this is not even the case.

[Ax2Grind]

OMG its impossible to win this game as an attacker or a defender, in clan mechs or IS mechs, with a rope, on a boat, I do not like it Sam I am, I do not like Green Clans and Spam!

I do not like attacks from an OP IS House.
I do not like PUGs, effective as a mouse
I do not like them Here or There.
I do not like them Anywhere.
I do not like Green Clans and spam!
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

Would you zerg them
In a light?
Can you beat them
as an LRM kite?

Not in a light.
Not as a kite.
Not in an IS House.
Not when playing like a mouse.
I would not beat them here or there.
I would not beat them anywhere.
I would not play Green Clans and Spam.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

Would you? Could you?
In a Crab?
Shoot them! Shoot them!
Terri-bad!

I would not,
Could not,
In a Crab

You may like them.
You will see
You may like them
with PPC's?

I would not, could not with a PPC.
Not in a Crab! You let me be.
I do not like them in a light.
I do not like them as a kite.
I do not like the IS house
I do not like playing as a mouse
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere.
I do not like green Clans and Spam.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am

...

Edited by Ax2Grind, 21 December 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[Carcass23]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Is there something I missed that allows you to get the mechs for free?

Yeah, it's TOP SECRET. Also, I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

[km1710]

OP I can give you my personal experience

I started with a short term contract for the IS . Then I switched to a short term contract for Clans. Playing as a PUG lonewolf, this switch didn't change anything for me, just always the same losses when facing larger team and only the rare, occasional victory (two, one for each faction, on about twenty matches. that's 10%).

note: as a pug I find this right, because that is how CW was meant, big play for big groups.

So, personally for me it's true what the others say here: the main issue is the communication. It doesn't matter what are you piloting, or if there is a slight imbalance, you will get your ass kicked anyway by an enemy MORE coordinated than yours!

I could get angry at ERPPC / WUB TDRs, IS light rush, some imbalanced quirks, but then I remember how I could get angry aswell at enemy 3xcrows+Twolf drop decks, Clan ER and hitboxes when I was IS...

So take my words just as a single experience between many... the only conclusion I got is that if I want to earn more money / hr I will stick to the solo queue! 147k CB per 25 mins of match is too little I guess... I will play CW every now an then just for curiosity.

Edited by km1710, 21 December 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[Lucky Noob]

totgeboren, on 20 December 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

If they were balanced, the borders on the big map should remain fairly stationary. How much have the clan expanded in these last days?

just this...

No matter what Arguments like LTP, get the tactics etc etc. this Post sums the fact,

[Andrew Osis]

The OP is a cry baby. Clans OP? When I see 5-6 lights blowing past our clan mechs and making our range worthless and proceed to blow up at least one gen. Sometimes they get all 3 in wave one against a full 12 man of Clan Wolf Delta Galaxy.

IS as quirks and a mastered mech with those quirks would be on par with an equivalent sized clan mech. On top of that and this one is really the most obvious: IS HAS FAR MORE ROOM WHEN IT COMES TO CUSTOMIZATION OF THEIR CHASSIS.

We cant upgrade our engines or edit any of the mechs systems at all. That leaves most our mechs pretty close to the builds they come with. You guys have a lot more room to be creative in the mech lab, things like speed and fire power directly convert to overall Battle Value of a mech. Hey, if you dont wanna die so fast dont use an XL, people been saying that since beta lol