1236 replies to this topic

[Corbon Zackery]

I don't have any issue running my Thor. I am doing fine stat wise with a solid performance record.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d5b45b4560128a

This is a 70 ton 50dps kill machine.


Kill/Death Ratio

SUMMONER SMN-PRIME(G) 24 14 10 1.40 28 13 2.15 9,337 46,144
03:13:52

This shows me that while a stock Summoner might not be performing well. Frankenstein operations that combine Omni Pods can make it into a formable weapon of destruction.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...326414a9cd0fe07

In this example we have a Frankenstein SRM Brawler with a ER large laser for long range snipe.
52 firepower with impressive 6.16 dps.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e506892254cf2d8

With this Prime unfrankenstein mock up we have adopted a go big or go home load out pushing the damage to a 43 5.26 dps. I say go big or go home do to the ammo restrictions given the heavy payload. This version can be easily modified to a long range killing machine.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44a4178d7241a17

A simple flip of key weapons and your now a threat at long range. I will note that damage goes down to 31 in this configuration while DPS stays the same at 5.73.

This is why go big or go home is the way to play a stock Summoner. Get in close do the damage let your friends mop up whats left while you snipe with a ER large laser.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 20 February 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Corbon Zackery, on 20 February 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

I don't have any issue running my Thor. I am doing fine stat wise with a solid performance record.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d5b45b4560128a

This is a 70 ton 50dps kill machine.


Kill/Death Ratio

SUMMONER SMN-PRIME(G) 24 14 10 1.40 28 13 2.15 9,337 46,144
03:13:52

This shows me that while a stock Summoner might not be performing well. Frankenstein operations that combine Omni Pods can make it into a formable weapon of destruction.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...326414a9cd0fe07

In this example we have a Frankenstein SRM Brawler with a ER large laser for long range snipe.
52 firepower with impressive 6.16 dps.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e506892254cf2d8

With this Prime unfrankenstein mock up we have adopted a go big or go home load out pushing the damage to a 43 5.26 dps. I say go big or go home do to the ammo restrictions given the heavy payload. This version can be easily modified to a long range killing machine.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44a4178d7241a17

A simple flip of key weapons and your now a threat at long range. I will note that damage goes down to 31 in this configuration while DPS stays the same at 5.73.

This is why go big or go home is the way to play a stock Summoner. Get in close do the damage let your friends mop up whats left while you snipe with a ER large laser.

we're delighted you are in the what...1% content with the Summoner? Sadly, it appears you are in the minority. The vast minority

[Deathlike]

Those builds amount to "lol what".

I swear people stay in the same skill level almost indefinitely, and I'm scared to think what they think is a "good" or "meta" build.

[Mott]

Deathlike, on 20 February 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Those builds amount to "lol what".

I swear people stay in the same skill level almost indefinitely, and I'm scared to think what they think is a "good" or "meta" build.

Yeah i clicked those links expecting killer new builds for me to try... and was all


Those results in those builds just scream PUG ELO AIDED.

[Wintersdark]

Corbon Zackery, on 20 February 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

I don't have any issue running my Thor. I am doing fine stat wise with a solid performance record.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d5b45b4560128a

This is a 70 ton 50dps kill machine.


Kill/Death Ratio

SUMMONER SMN-PRIME(G) 24 14 10 1.40 28 13 2.15 9,337 46,144
03:13:52

This shows me that while a stock Summoner might not be performing well. Frankenstein operations that combine Omni Pods can make it into a formable weapon of destruction.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...326414a9cd0fe07

In this example we have a Frankenstein SRM Brawler with a ER large laser for long range snipe.
52 firepower with impressive 6.16 dps.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e506892254cf2d8

With this Prime unfrankenstein mock up we have adopted a go big or go home load out pushing the damage to a 43 5.26 dps. I say go big or go home do to the ammo restrictions given the heavy payload. This version can be easily modified to a long range killing machine.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44a4178d7241a17

A simple flip of key weapons and your now a threat at long range. I will note that damage goes down to 31 in this configuration while DPS stays the same at 5.73.

This is why go big or go home is the way to play a stock Summoner. Get in close do the damage let your friends mop up whats left while you snipe with a ER large laser.

Ok... I have a lot of questions about these builds, but I'll stick with the basic:

Do you really know what that targeting computer is doing for you? Really? In exact, measurable terms, not just "it's make'n stuf betta!" A Rank 1 TC can be a good investment, but you should really look carefully at which/how many of your weapons are actually affected by it before spending a precious ton on it... particularly on builds running like 1.5t of lbx5 ammo.

All three of those builds would feel undergunned on a Stormcrow, 15 tons lighter.

But these all run afoul of the Summoner's real weakness:

Insufficient tonnage to run few, really heavy weapons; insufficient hardpoints to run lots of lighter weapons. You end up with a couple, disparate mediocre weapons combining to be somehow less than their component parts.

Being able to do well in Elo based pug matches is irrelevant. If you run a *really* terrible build all the time, you'll end up in a sufficently low Elo range to perform admirably there. This is a good thing - it allows players to play what they want and ultimately be "competitive" where they are. But it also means it can greatly skew your opinion on what is, and is not, actually effective.

[Mott]

Wintersdark, on 20 February 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

Being able to do well in Elo based pug matches is irrelevant. If you run a *really* terrible build all the time, you'll end up in a sufficently low Elo range to perform admirably there. This is a good thing - it allows players to play what they want and ultimately be "competitive" where they are. But it also means it can greatly skew your opinion on what is, and is not, actually effective.

Not always. You can be quite good and get that elo rating that drags you in to "balance" a really crappy team.

Corbon could actually be a very adept player who for some reason chooses crappier builds and still manages to roll less capable enemies.

[Golden Vulf]

Khobai, on 18 February 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

Unlocking Endo and Ferro would be a mistake.

However mechs without endo and ferro should get additional quirks (+1 quirk for each one they dont have)

So for example: the Madcat-S should get -3 quirks for having endo, ferro, AND jumpjets. While the Hellbringer should get +1 quirk (+2 for not having either endo or ferro and -1 for having ECM)

I don't see why it would be a mistake.

You're saying the bad clan mechs need quirks to make up for lack of Endo Steel, just give them Endo Steel and then quirks later if they still need them.

How is it a mistake to give endo to every clan mech, while every IS mech inexplicably can already take it? Even mechs that should not have had it can strangely be upgraded, like the AS7-D. That thing never had Endo steel, it was only the later models that had it.


And the Kodiak doesn't have missile hard points on the arms. Why do people think that?

Edited by Golden Vulf, 20 February 2015 - 01:19 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Golden Vulf, on 20 February 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

I don't see why it would be a mistake.

You're saying the bad clan mechs need quirks to make up for lack of Endo Steel, just give them Endo Steel and then quirks later if they still need them.

How is it a mistake to give endo to every clan mech, while every IS mech inexplicably can already take it? Even mechs that should not have had it can strangely be upgraded, like the AS7-D. That thing never had Endo steel, it was only the later models that had it.


And the Kodiak doesn't have missile hard points on the arms. Why do people think that?

http://www.warrenbor...it.php?ID=AN077

Thats why I thought it did.....that games Kodiak clearly has missile bays under the claws. The 8 laser pods are above the claws.

And MW4 Mektek it did as well. ofc, its the same Kodiak model. I think that Kodiak model looks better anyway, the original Kodiak looks odd to me.

and where is the cockpit on the Kodiak? I always thought it was the Venty part on the top, but is it the little slits above that?

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 20 February 2015 - 01:37 PM.

[Anakha]

Just saw all the specs and hardpoints of the new clan wave 3 mechs. They all have endo steel except for the Execution which at 95 tons will probably need the hardpoints instead of the tonnage benefit from endo, same situation as the dire wolf.

At this point I see no reason why would not unlock endo steel for the summoner I think its actually ridiculous and highly unbalancing and unfair to the summoner chassis for it NOT to get endo or the ability to upgrade to it.

Time to step up PGI get it done!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 20 February 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

http://www.warrenbor...it.php?ID=AN077

Thats why I thought it did.....that games Kodiak clearly has missile bays under the claws. The 8 laser pods are above the claws.

And MW4 Mektek it did as well. ofc, its the same Kodiak model. I think that Kodiak model looks better anyway, the original Kodiak looks odd to me.

That Kodiak you linked is based off the MW4 version (mektek had nothing to do with the Kodiak btw) and is part of the Dark Age. It was later added to BT canon as they move to the Dark Age timeline, but you won't see it for a very long time.

[LordKnightFandragon]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 February 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

That Kodiak you linked is based off the MW4 version (mektek had nothing to do with the Kodiak btw) and is part of the Dark Age. It was later added to BT canon as they move to the Dark Age timeline, but you won't see it for a very long time.

Honestly, I was surprised when I saw that model of the Kodiak. Always thought it was wider and fatter and odder looking. but eventually, I came to like that new looking MW4 Kodiak. even have one of those in the CMG from wizkids game and painted it up to be my Flag ship mech, KDK-K2 "Claw" Kodiak. Claw being the name of my ingame Warhawk prime until I can have a Kodiak and name it as such. Ofc, I want a Vulture MkIV so I can name it Der Fuhrer....after my 1st Flagship mech, until I poured paint thinner on the dial and roached it, so it didnt work, i also managed to break its leg off....

several reiterations of mechs had me wondering where they came from. I never did keep up on Lore or anything. The new Vulture in MW4? Mk IV mad Cats and vultures, that Kodiak....why no original.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 20 February 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Mott, on 20 February 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Not always. You can be quite good and get that elo rating that drags you in to "balance" a really crappy team.

Corbon could actually be a very adept player who for some reason chooses crappier builds and still manages to roll less capable enemies.

I didn't say he was a poor player. In fact, I said he could well be a good player, but if you regularly roll crappy builds you'll end up in a lower Elo range as a result. Elo isn't player skill, player skill is only one (of very many) factors that contribute to it.

As to: "You can be quite good and get that elo rating that drags you in to "balance" a really crappy team." This isn't really how it works, though it's a common misconception.

Of course, any match can have any players in it, as the bounds extend over time and particularly at off peak times the game will eventually just put you into a match. Lower pop times, it's essentially random.

However, the algorithm for the matchmaker is basically:
Take oldest player in queue. This seed player determines the attempted Elo for that team - further players are added at or as close to that Elo rating as possible (not to maintain that average rating, but as close to that actual rating as possible); how far away the MM goes depends on how long it spends building your team.

Once the team is complete, the MM calculates the team Elo, then attempts to build a second team at that Elo rating in a similar manner, adding players as close to that Elo rating as possible. A team average Elo is then calculated with the opposing team as well, and these averages are used to determine the probability of a given team winning (and thus the scoring changes at match end).

It doesn't bring in a high Elo player just to bring up average Elo, nor does it add bad players to a match to bring down the average Elo.

Doing either of those would be both more complex and lead to a worse experience, with no gain.

Edited by Wintersdark, 21 February 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Golden Vulf, on 20 February 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

I don't see why it would be a mistake.

You're saying the bad clan mechs need quirks to make up for lack of Endo Steel, just give them Endo Steel and then quirks later if they still need them.

How is it a mistake to give endo to every clan mech, while every IS mech inexplicably can already take it? Even mechs that should not have had it can strangely be upgraded, like the AS7-D. That thing never had Endo steel, it was only the later models that had it.


And the Kodiak doesn't have missile hard points on the arms. Why do people think that?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kodiak
Kodiak 4 and Kodiak VI both do

MW4/ MWDA version is actually a Kodiak II

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 February 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 20 February 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

several reiterations of mechs had me wondering where they came from. I never did keep up on Lore or anything. The new Vulture in MW4? Mk IV mad Cats and vultures, that Kodiak....why no original.

People like to try and reinvent the designs and put their spin on it. Unfortunately many become different enough that purists out there decry them or they deviate far enough from the source (chin rack on Vulture for example or the Hellhound aka Wolverine IIC) that they become apocryphal until the guys at Battletech try to bring them into canon (or forced to in the case of Dark Age).

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 21 February 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[Golden Vulf]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 February 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kodiak
Kodiak 4 and Kodiak VI both do

MW4/ MWDA version is actually a Kodiak II

Well that Kodiak 4 only has 2 lasers in each arm with those LRM 20s, so people can relax as far as hard points go. The Kodiak VI has 4 small lasers and an LRM 20 I think in each arm, but doesn't show up until 3095.

We have plenty of contemporary Kodiaks that could make it into the game.

Kodiak 1 Standard with the 9 energy, 1 ballistic, 2 missile hardpoints
Kodiak 2 with 4 Jump Jets, 5 energy, 1 ballistic, 1 missile hardpoints
Kodiak 3 with 4 energy and 2 ballistic hardpoints

The 4th one that no one wants can be the LRM one.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 21 February 2015 - 06:02 PM.

[OznerpaG]

Mott, on 20 February 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Not always. You can be quite good and get that elo rating that drags you in to "balance" a really crappy team.

Corbon could actually be a very adept player who for some reason chooses crappier builds and still manages to roll less capable enemies.

as soon as i opened Corbon's first Smurfy design and saw AMS i instantly knew his experience level

hopefully PGI gives the Summoner Thunderbolt-like quirks, because it needs it bad. clan mechs need to be balanced in such a way where it's just as tempting to take a Summoner or Gargoyle into a CW dropdeck as a Timber or Stormcrow - and that's a BIG, if not near impossible job

Edited by JagdFlanker, 21 February 2015 - 07:44 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

WM Quicksilver, on 21 February 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

People like to try and reinvent the designs and put their spin on it. Unfortunately many become different enough that purists out there decry them or they deviate far enough from the source (chin rack on Vulture for example or the Hellhound aka Wolverine IIC) that they become apocryphal until the guys at Battletech try to bring them into canon (or forced to in the case of Dark Age).

I quite like the looks of the Vulture Mk IV and Mad Cat MKIV, I like the chin lasers on the VLT-MKIV. It is actually a really nice redesign imo.

Golden Vulf, on 21 February 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

Well that Kodiak 4 only has 2 lasers in each arm with those LRM 20s, so people can relax as far as hard points go. The Kodiak VI has 4 small lasers and an LRM 20 I think in each arm, but doesn't show up until 3095.

We have plenty of contemporary Kodiaks that could make it into the game.

Kodiak 1 Standard with the 9 energy, 1 ballistic, 2 missile hardpoints
Kodiak 2 with 4 Jump Jets, 5 energy, 1 ballistic, 1 missile hardpoints
Kodiak 3 with 4 energy and 2 ballistic hardpoints

The 4th one that no one wants can be the LRM one.

Yeah, everyone will take Kodiak 1 and pack in 9 LPL...skip the rest of the hardpoints, no one cares what th other hardpoints, as long as it can Layzer vawmit

[Golden Vulf]

LordKnightFandragon, on 21 February 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

I quite like the looks of the Vulture Mk IV and Mad Cat MKIV, I like the chin lasers on the VLT-MKIV. It is actually a really nice redesign imo.




Yeah, everyone will take Kodiak 1 and pack in 9 LPL...skip the rest of the hardpoints, no one cares what th other hardpoints, as long as it can Layzer vawmit

You could fit 5 Large Pulse Lasers and have room for 25 Double Heat Sinks and full armor.

Now if only the heatsinks were true Doubles and there was no ghost heat.

If we switched 4 out for 6 ER Larges you could get a 79 point laser vomit alpha, and you might even deal half of that damage before you exploded.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 22 February 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Golden Vulf, on 22 February 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

You could fit 5 Large Pulse Lasers and have room for 25 Double Heat Sinks and full armor.

Now if only the heatsinks were true Doubles and there was no ghost heat.

If we switched 4 out for 6 ER Larges you could get a 79 point laser vomit alpha, and you might even deal half of that damage before you exploded.

And in another Mechwarrior game I would make 9 LPL work, firing 2 at a time until I was to hot to keep firing, ofc, I prolly wouldnt just pack in 9LPL....but w/e lol. MWO reminds me of the the last scene from the mask where he pulls out those 101 guns on his arms.......very cartoony game.

[Anakha]

Quirks next month it looks like but I don't think that is going to fix the fixed JJ issue or the lack of endo steel compared to the holy trinity mechs. Hopefully they will address this soon.